Gable Steveson returns to college wrestling

[skandar]

On 11/13/2024 at 3:27 AM, billyhoyle said:

If the NCAA doesn't rule him ineligible for doing professional wrestling, I can't wait for this to be used in the lawsuit when NFL players who couldn't cut it try to go back to NCAA football. Then there can be legal filings over whether WWE is professional wrestling. 

I can’t figure who’s dumber between you and hammerlock. Imagine thinking the NCAA considers the WWE a professional sport…

[skandar]

Gable is the best p4p wrestler in the country at all levels. He’s doing this because it’s free money. He’s not the oldest wrestler competing in college this year. Some clown said something about him not having any significance in NCAA wrestling…he’s the only two time hodge winning hwt ever. I can’t wait to see him embarrass all your favorite heavys

[TNwrestling]

8 hours ago, skandar said:

Gable is the best p4p wrestler in the country at all levels. 

You're entitled to your opinion, but i dont agree with this.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

55 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but i dont agree with this.

Which active wrestler would be better/more accomplished?

Edited November 15 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[TNwrestling]

9 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Which active wrestler would be better/more accomplished?

IMO he cant be pfp #1 when he's been off the mat for 2 years. He very well may not have lost a step and very well could come right back to peak form. 

 

But right now? In this moment? Personally..i don't think he's #1

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

11 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

IMO he cant be pfp #1 when he's been off the mat for 2 years. He very well may not have lost a step and very well could come right back to peak form. 

 

But right now? In this moment? Personally..i don't think he's #1

Who is?

And it has been 18 months, and he looked pretty good against Parris who ended up Bronze that year.  

Edited November 15 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[TNwrestling]

43 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Who is?

And it has been 18 months, and he looked pretty good against Parris who ended up Bronze that year.  

Again...just my opinion...if we're talking OVERALL p4p best in the country right now I'm taking Amit.

 

If we're talking only men..accolades aside, im taking Dake. Just college wrestling im taking Starocci. He looked good 18 months ago. Who knows how he looks now. Is he the best heavyweight? Probably. 

Edited November 15 by TNwrestling

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

21 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

Again...just my opinion...if we're talking OVERALL p4p best in the country right now I'm taking Amit.

 

If we're talking only men..accolades aside, im taking Dake. Just college wrestling im taking Starocci. He looked good 18 months ago. Who knows how he looks now. Is he the best heavyweight? Probably. 

You have to be kidding me.  Amit is fantastic, but would be clobbered by any man near her weight in the top 10.  That takes her out of p4p.  Absurd.

Dake over Spencer?  That is wild.  One almost got teched by a journeyman, the other lost a tight match to a champ from a weight up.

Starocci is NOT better than Gable.

[TNwrestling]

7 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

You have to be kidding me.  Amit is fantastic, but would be clobbered by any man near her weight in the top 10.  That takes her out of p4p.  Absurd.

Dake over Spencer?  That is wild.  One almost got teched by a journeyman, the other lost a tight match to a champ from a weight up.

Starocci is NOT better than Gable.

ohhhh ok, got it, its THAT kind of board. I guess nobody gets to have an opinion that differs from yours...

 

didn't know, now i do 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, TNwrestling said:

ohhhh ok, got it, its THAT kind of board. I guess nobody gets to have an opinion that differs from yours...

 

didn't know, now i do 

You can have whatever opinion you want!

You are so thin skinned that apparently you don't like discussion and/or can't defend your irrational picks?  Anyone questions your picks and you start crying and posting emojis?

Now I know!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

15 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

You can have whatever opinion you want!

You are so thin skinned that apparently you don't like discussion and/or can't defend your irrational picks?  Anyone questions your picks and you start crying and posting emojis?

Now I know!

Haha... @TNwrestling all in his feelings and can't have a discussion.  Poor guy.  How can he handle the mental rigors of pro wrestling?  

[TNwrestling]

50 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Haha... @TNwrestling all in his feelings and can't have a discussion.  Poor guy.  How can he handle the mental rigors of pro wrestling?  

oh that venture months ago. wife said i needed a real second job.

 

so jimmy is the board troll and you're the board asshole huh...

 

i had an opinion that you decided to take a personal issue with. could've chosen to say, hey thats your opinion and move on. but no. you chose the route of being a dickhole. 

 

also, starocci IS better than gable.

Edited November 15 by TNwrestling

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

oh that venture months ago. wife said i needed a real second job.

 

so jimmy is the board troll and you're the board asshole huh...

 

i had an opinion that you decided to take a personal issue with. could've chosen to say, hey thats your opinion and move on. but no. you chose the route of being a dickhole. 

 

also, starocci IS better than gable.

Now the name calling begins.  You got very weepy when I had a different opinion than yours.  You could have discussed things rationally, but you chose to pout.  Now name-calling....

Here is how you debate your point:

Gable Steveson is the most recent Olympic gold medalist who is an active wrestler.  He may actually be our most recent gold medalist!  He has beaten two of the 21st century's best in the Olympics.  I feel that puts him above Dake and Starocci, neither of whom has ever beaten anyone as good as Taha or Geno at the Worlds or Olympics.  (Yes Starocci is an NCAA wrestler, but he is not even good enough to get out of the USA in MFS, so he can't possibly compare to Steveson) This is what qualifies Gable to be called our current p4p best wrestler.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

55 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

oh that venture months ago. wife said i needed a real second job.

 

so jimmy is the board troll and you're the board asshole huh...

 

i had an opinion that you decided to take a personal issue with. could've chosen to say, hey thats your opinion and move on. but no. you chose the route of being a dickhole. 

 

also, starocci IS better than gable.

Have a nice weekend, btw! Go Vols!

[CHROMEBIRD]

17 hours ago, MNRodent said:

Unless he has a goal to win another Hodge and tie Cael's record of 3.  But I guess even if he wrestles a heavier schedule, he'd still get serious competition from Starocci/Keckeisen winner, or someone else who may emerge.  I don't know how many total matches a person would need to get consideration from the Hodge committee, maybe 15?

Spencer won his second Hodge with about a dozen or so matches, including Big Tens and Nationals. Definitely fewer than 15. 

[dragit]

2 hours ago, TNwrestling said:

 

also, starocci IS better than gable.

At wrestling?

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Spencer won his second Hodge with about a dozen or so matches, including Big Tens and Nationals. Definitely fewer than 15. 

You got it. 12-0 the second time around. But that was 2021 when everyone wrestled a reduced schedule due to the elimination of most tournaments.

Steveson won it in 2022 with only 18 matches. While the rest of the finalists averaged 22.

2023 Mason Parris is the recent outlier with 33 matches when the field averaged 22.

In 2024 the winner (Aaron Brooks) and the field average was at 22.

Steveson is clearly good enough to win again with many fewer matches than his competition, but I have no idea how many fewer.

[scourge165]

4 hours ago, dragit said:

At wrestling?

I think you could certainly make the argument that the #1 P4P Wrestler heading into this season is Starocci. The dude HAS won 4 titles already...

Pointing out he "couldn't even make the Mens FS team," is...not really the most compelling argument in my mind. He had a pretty significant knee injury and gave up his cut down to ~163 about halfway through to Wrestle 189 and his teammate, probably the best Wrestler in the world at 86KG Wrestled another former PSU guy who had won an Olympic and 3 WC and a Silver.

 

But...people can agree to disagree(or perhaps not!)....

[billyhoyle]

20 hours ago, skandar said:

I can’t figure who’s dumber between you and hammerlock. Imagine thinking the NCAA considers the WWE a professional sport…

Yes, me having an opinion that's different than yours makes me dumb. Great logic there. 

WWE is professional wrestling.  Yes, the outcomes are predetermined, and it's one of the lowest forms of entertainment on earth, but they are engaging in a type of wrestling and being paid professionally to do so. Could Gable make an argument that he shouldn't lose eligibility because WWE is different than NCAA wrestling? Yes, he could.  But allowing him to compete in NCAA wrestling sets a precedent that could allow somebody to argue that freestyle is different than NCAA wrestling as well. A baseball player could argue that professional baseball uses wood bats and is therefore different than college, which still uses metal bats. 

 

We are at the point where the entire idea of amateurism in athletics is pretty much gone anyway, and this is just another example of that. 

[Caveira]

8 hours ago, TNwrestling said:

ohhhh ok, got it, its THAT kind of board. I guess nobody gets to have an opinion that differs from yours...

 

didn't know, now i do 

I don’t know amit… tbh.  Does she have the same / better technique than any random male AA or ncaa champ ?   Make a valid argument plz 

[dragit]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I think you could certainly make the argument that the #1 P4P Wrestler heading into this season is Starocci. The dude HAS won 4 titles already...

Pointing out he "couldn't even make the Mens FS team," is...not really the most compelling argument in my mind. He had a pretty significant knee injury and gave up his cut down to ~163 about halfway through to Wrestle 189 and his teammate, probably the best Wrestler in the world at 86KG Wrestled another former PSU guy who had won an Olympic and 3 WC and a Silver.

 

But...people can agree to disagree(or perhaps not!)....

Let me first say I think Starocci is a beast.  I was just s flippant in a previous thread that Ferrari wouldn't have a chance against Starocci.  

And I think Starocci will finish with a better college career than Steveson.  Five titles trumps all and he'll probably get them.

But Starocci ain't as good a Wrestler as Steveson, nowhere near.  Since you brought up freestyle, Steveson has an Olympic gold medal and hasn't been in danger of losing a domestic match in I can't remember how long. I didn't make any argument about Starocci not making the team but the fact is that up to now he never would have been a favorite to do so, whereas Steveson uses world team qualifiers as takedown clinics.  

And with respect to college Steveson has two Hodges to Starocci's zero.  And same thing, never in danger of losing since his double brain farts as a freshman. How many people think Steveson won't win in March if he is training seriously? ANYONE?

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, dragit said:

Let me first say I think Starocci is a beast.  I was just s flippant in a previous thread that Ferrari wouldn't have a chance against Starocci.  

And I think Starocci will finish with a better college career than Steveson.  Five titles trumps all and he'll probably get them.

But Starocci ain't as good a Wrestler as Steveson, nowhere near.  Since you brought up freestyle, Steveson has an Olympic gold medal and hasn't been in danger of losing a domestic match in I can't remember how long. I didn't make any argument about Starocci not making the team but the fact is that up to now he never would have been a favorite to do so, whereas Steveson uses world team qualifiers as takedown clinics.  

And with respect to college Steveson has two Hodges to Starocci's zero.  And same thing, never in danger of losing since his double brain farts as a freshman. How many people think Steveson won't win in March if he is training seriously? ANYONE?

I know you didn't bring up his Freestyle, someone else did...which I thought was a weak argument...for the reasons I stated. 2 of the 3 best in the world were at his weight(IMO) and he was hurt.

 

I'm just looking at one guy who's won 4 titles in 4 years and another guy who hasn't wrestled in a few 3 years and I don't know if he's all in, if he's back because he exhausted his other options at this point, but do I think he's going to lose? No, probably not. I don't think it's quite the lock others do. I think Kerkvliet could beat him. I think a lot depends on HIS approach to this season as he tends to look like Wrestling is a hassle for him rather than an opportunity, BUT...his size, length, and athletic ability? Yeah, I think he CAN beat him. 

 

I'm really not that invested in the P4P, but... let's let Gable come back and Wrestle before we push him over the guy who's going for his 5th title. That's my take...

Edited November 16 by scourge165

[dragit]

56 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I know you didn't bring up his Freestyle, someone else did...which I thought was a weak argument...for the reasons I stated. 2 of the 3 best in the world were at his weight(IMO) and he was hurt.

 

I'm just looking at one guy who's won 4 titles in 4 years and another guy who hasn't wrestled in a few 3 years and I don't know if he's all in, if he's back because he exhausted his other options at this point, but do I think he's going to lose? No, probably not. I don't think it's quite the lock others do. I think Kerkvliet could beat him. I think a lot depends on HIS approach to this season as he tends to look like Wrestling is a hassle for him rather than an opportunity, BUT...his size, length, and athletic ability? Yeah, I think he CAN beat him. 

 

I'm really not that invested in the P4P, but... let's let Gable come back and Wrestle before we push him over the guy who's going for his 5th title. That's my take...

1. Love everything you wrote.

2. I have no problem with Starocci starting season as #1 on any P4P list, he's totally earned that based on a record that includes beating a number of champs including while injured.

3. But I strongly believe that, if Steveson is serious and trains properly, no one is close to as good as he is in college.  All respect to Kerkvliet, but he isn't close.  That's really a statement about Steveson, not Kerk.  

[bnwtwg]

14 hours ago, Caveira said:

I don’t know amit… tbh.  Does she have the same / better technique than any random male AA or ncaa champ ?   Make a valid argument plz 

Amit Elor is P4P the most dominant wrestler in the world. She is on a rare path to ascend to all-time conversation, only time will tell how the journey ends.

[CHROMEBIRD]

On 11/13/2024 at 1:27 AM, billyhoyle said:

If the NCAA doesn't rule him ineligible for doing professional wrestling, I can't wait for this to be used in the lawsuit when NFL players who couldn't cut it try to go back to NCAA football. Then there can be legal filings over whether WWE is professional wrestling. 

On 11/13/2024 at 4:32 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

The NCAA stated that pro wrestling is entertainment rather than sport.

Would be kinda wild if basketball players went to play for the Harlem Globetrotters (or the Washington Generals), Marathon Oil, etc. or baseball players went to the Savannah Bananas and came back to school. Not that there's money in those entertainment sports relative to the WWE, but still.