Reversal - why isn't it 3 points?

[AgaveMaria]

A takedown is 3 points. Escape is 1 point and reversal 2.

Why isn't a reversal 3 points?

The bottom wrestler takes control as if they got a takedown.

Seems that gaining the top position from bottom should be 3 just like a takedown.

[Tripnsweep]

I thought the first takedown should be the only one worth 3, or a reversal should be 3 or 4 since it's harder to get than a takedown. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

A takedown is 3 points. Escape is 1 point and reversal 2.

Why isn't a reversal 3 points?

The bottom wrestler takes control as if they got a takedown.

Seems that gaining the top position from bottom should be 3 just like a takedown.

The bottom wrestler did not achieve a takedown.  The people who make the rules are looking to emphasize takedowns.

[paul corsi]

I say 1 extra point for a period ride out!  What's harder than that?

[Wrestleknownothing]

The way I look at it is the powers that be use the scoring rules in two ways.

One is to promote activities that they want more of. They want more takedowns. They made this clear when they changed a takedown from 2 to 3 points.

The other way the scoring rules are used is to reward degree of difficulty. It is very difficult to expose your opponents back, so the longer you expose your opponents back the more points you will get. It is harder to pinfall your opponent than to beat them by a point, so you will get a bonus for this more difficult activity.

For me, the reversal satisfies both elements. It is a takedown in the sense that the person who was up prior to the action is now down. And it is exceedingly difficult. For my money a reversal should be worth 3 points.

[Voice of the Quakers]

Establishing control from neutral is harder than taking control from bottom. I like the point difference here.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

17 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Establishing control from neutral is harder than taking control from bottom. I like the point difference here.

Yes.  Generally reversals are much more easily avoided than takdowns.  It usually takes a major mistake by the top man, who pretty much has to assist the bottom man in this endeavor.  Most of the time, the offensive wrestler just has to let go and he will not give up R2.

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yes.  Generally reversals are much more easily avoided than takdowns.  It usually takes a major mistake by the top man, who pretty much has to assist the bottom man in this endeavor.  Most of the time, the offensive wrestler just has to let go and he will not give up R2.

ditto

[ionel]

9 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

A takedown is 3 points. Escape is 1 point and reversal 2.

Why isn't a reversal 3 points?

The bottom wrestler takes control as if they got a takedown.

Seems that gaining the top position from bottom should be 3 just like a takedown.

2.5 points

Yes 2 doesn't really seem right given what usually happens is an escape after the reversal basically making the revesal worth the same as just a straight escape.  But if you really want your reversal to have value then follow it up with a minute+ of riding time.  Yes that's hard to do thus:

Reversal should be 2.5 points.  Everything is digital now days, it's just as easy to put 2.5 on the score board as 2.0 or 3.0.  This could also elimate a lot of OTs.  But alas the decision makers have experienced too many concussions and are unable to understand how simple this is.

[Dark Energy]

Takedown - and escape.  Score is 3-1

Takedown - reversal and escape - score is 4-2

Both situations end up with both on feet.  2 pt differential. 

I can see the OP’s point.  

Or wrestler B starts on bottom.  
- Reversal then escape … net 1 pt improvement

- Simply just escape … net 1 pt improvement 

Again, can see OP’s point.

I’d suggest the reversal deserves more reward.  

Edited October 25 by Dark Energy

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

11 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Takedown - and escape.  Score is 3-1

Takedown - reversal and escape - score is 4-2

Both situations end up with both on feet.  2 pt differential. 

I can see the OP’s point.  

Or wrestler B starts on bottom.  
- Reversal then escape … net 1 pt improvement

- Simply just escape … net 1 pt improvement 

Again, can see OP’s point.

I’d suggest the reversal deserves more reward.  

Except we are trying to reward takedowns.

[CHROMEBIRD]

A wrestler who gets taken down and scores a 2pt reversal or 1pt escape is incentivized to turn their opponent or cut them loose and work for a takedown because they're still losing. It also incentivizes the wrestler who got reversed to get out from underneath because a reversal + RT would negate their takedown.  

A 3 point reversal would just tie the score 3-3 and encourage rideouts.

[Idaho]

Almost 1 year to the day...

 

 

[KennyEBHS]

Takedowns are more difficult than a reverse, IMHO. I wrestled in HS. That's my experience.

[Fletcher]

Should be 4 pts - same outcome as if bottom wrestler got an escape and takedown. In fact, they should be rewarded for doing it in a more efficient manner; screw it - 5 pts!

[ionel]

33 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Should be 4 pts - same outcome as if bottom wrestler got an escape and takedown. In fact, they should be rewarded for doing it in a more efficient manner; screw it - 5 pts!

I think you are on to something there.  

Edited October 26 by ionel

[Hammerlock3]

A reversal also involves less inherent risk, you can get put on your back sure, but chilling out on bottom is riskier in that sense, the real risk is missing the chance to get an escape. 

[Fletcher]

5 hours ago, ionel said:

I think you are on to something there.  

6 points?!? 6 points!

[ionel]

8 hours ago, Fletcher said:

6 points?!? 6 points!

I say 7!

[TexRef]

I enjoy mat wrestling and agree that a reversal should be worth more points. 

With the 3 point takedown we are starting to see more takedowns-cut-takedown-cut-takedown-cut until a tech fall. Imo that just brings us that much closer to Freestyle. I don't want to lose Folkstyle wrestling! 

I enjoy FS but I don't enjoy "officiating by committee" nor do I enjoy the corrupt rules committee making up rules that don't seem to be adding much benefit to the sport. 

I am really surprised that FS/GR made it through the "ball grab era"! That was ridiculous!