WTT Finals Thread

[Scouts Honor]

i think PSU is still butthurt about the 'take advantage of an injury' thing during ncaas that JB and cormier were talking about

[Wrestleknownothing]

This feels like Michael Jordan-esque motivation. His commentary about Starocci's knee was a whole lot of so what. Nickal's reaction was a bunch of phony bluster. But if that is what he uses for motivation after all these years of grinding, then so be it.

As for the fan part, yeah f*** that guy. As Burroughs said directly to him at the time, "what have you done?"

[VakAttack]

Burroughs experience is just that: his experience.  There's obviously some inherent subjectivity to how each individual experiences what is happening in a situation.  I do tend to agree w/ WKN that this is at least partially a Jordanesque self-motivation technique, but there also seems to be legitimately bad blood that goes back years, mostly from PSU and their alumni finally feeling like they have a leg up in this competition after years of Burroughs dominating them (and everybody).

I'll say this, his perception of how he feels the fanbase treated him is likely not limited to just the OTT, but also includes that as the biggest data point; it's also where he suffered the greatest "embarrassment" of not even making it to the Best of 3, so that probably heightened how he experienced everything.  The fanbase has the right to feel and act how they want, but he has a right to call them out.  It's all shades of gray and opinions around "propriety."

As long as nobody threatened or touched him, I have no objection to people reacting however they want to react, but we as a larger group (and Burroughs as arguably our greatest champion) have the right to criticize and mock them for the behavior.

[Dogbone]

My take is almost everything always goes PSU way and some of their fans (not all of them) don't seem to handle it well when it is not 100% PSU love fest in the wrestling world.

In the last 6 months:

Carter called out JB then didn't show up at the weight

Bo talked crap before one of his fights

MM was pushing the line (maybe overstepped) and JB responded.  (Askren admitted MM was over the line)

Carter then talked more crap about what he would do if JB pushed him (Sidenote, where was Carter this weekend?   He made this exact weight in March)

PSU Fans boo JB at USAW wrestling event

PSU fan then heckles and talk more crap.

I don't see why JB has to turn the the other cheek.  He feels a certain type of way about it and has the right to say whatever and whenever he wants.  

PSU fans/wrestlers can be more respectful if they choose or they can deal with being called out on their behavior.  

 

[Hammerlock3]

10 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

I don't see why JB has to turn the the other cheek.  He feels a certain type of way about it and has the right to say whatever and whenever he wants.  

 

 

I don't think the idea is that he has to turn the other cheek, it's more like he shouldn't be acting surprised that a huge fan base like PSU has a few looney tunes in it.

He just posted on X something along the lines of "The best revenge is a life lived well"....isn't throwing around words like revenge a little dramatic? Of course it is. If he wants to do it to keep his edge that's fine, he's gonna get some mild call outs though.

[Truzzcat]

6 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I don't think the idea is that he has to turn the other cheek, it's more like he shouldn't be acting surprised that a huge fan base like PSU has a few looney tunes in it.

He just posted on X something along the lines of "The best revenge is a life lived well"....isn't throwing around words like revenge a little dramatic? Of course it is. If he wants to do it to keep his edge that's fine, he's gonna get some mild call outs though.

he got boo'd out of the arena the one heckler was the worst obviously, but it takes more than a few people to deafen an arena with boo's. 

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

he got boo'd out of the arena the one heckler was the worst obviously, but it takes more than a few people to deafen an arena with boo's. 

so you think this is evidence that PSU's fan base is distinct from other fan bases in a meaningful and negative way.

[Scouts Honor]

so he isn't really throwing around the word revenge.

by saying the best revenge is a life well lived,... means he isn't getting 'revenge'

he is letting his accomplishments and life speak for him.

but pointing it out...

[Truzzcat]

45 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

so you think this is evidence that PSU's fan base is distinct from other fan bases in a meaningful and negative way.

Not at all, it is the only fanbase I've seen actively boo and cheer against the greatest athlete in our sport however I was more so replying to your remark about a few looney tunes implying he was overreacting to a few outliers when it was a large part of a very full arena. 

[VakAttack]

48 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

so you think this is evidence that PSU's fan base is distinct from other fan bases in a meaningful and negative way.

I know you're not quoting me, but yes, they're distinct as they're the one that attacked him, so they're the fanbase to which he is responding.  He's not saying they're the only fanbase who ever ahs acted the fool, but they're the ones who reacted that way to him, and I think the only time I can remember him being booed was by them.

[skandar]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

so you think this is evidence that PSU's fan base is distinct from other fan bases in a meaningful and negative way.

Idk any other fan base that has supported pedophiles like PSUs has.

[Hammerlock3]

38 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Not at all, it is the only fanbase I've seen actively boo and cheer against the greatest athlete in our sport however I was more so replying to your remark about a few looney tunes implying he was overreacting to a few outliers when it was a large part of a very full arena. 

well I assume you'll think its fair if I claim i used the term "looney tune" to imply something more extreme than your average idiot who is willing to boo things (which is definitely idiot behavior.)

[Hammerlock3]

38 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I know you're not quoting me, but yes, they're distinct as they're the one that attacked him, so they're the fanbase to which he is responding.  He's not saying they're the only fanbase who ever ahs acted the fool, but they're the ones who reacted that way to him, and I think the only time I can remember him being booed was by them.

I know but you understand my point that the mature perspective is that this is just "the madness of crowds" in action. Maybe he's using it, but on some level fixating on them as PSU fans is a waste of time.

[Hammerlock3]

7 minutes ago, skandar said:

Idk any other fan base that has supported pedophiles like PSUs has.

this is just a stupid post.

[juniorvarsity]

12 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I know but you understand my point that the mature perspective is that this is just "the madness of crowds" in action. Maybe he's using it, but on some level fixating on them as PSU fans is a waste of time.

I just don't think this would happen at Ohio State or Oklahoma State. There is a chance it could happen at Iowa, but I find that unlikely. If you told me this was going to happen at Penn State, I would have been surprised too, but when people show you they are, believe them. 

[Hammerlock3]

4 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

I just don't think this would happen at Ohio State or Oklahoma State. There is a chance it could happen at Iowa, but I find that unlikely. If you told me this was going to happen at Penn State, I would have been surprised too, but when people show you they are, believe them. 

I'd say that "people" can't show you who they are, only individuals can. I do think you are on to something saying PSU and Iowa are the most likely to have outlandish obnoxious fans, but that's because the success has attracted gross people like JimmyC and sense they are living vicariously through an elite institution they feel bulletproof. I would agree PSU and Iowa have more of those around, I still think its a mistake to use the information to distill a meaningful idea about the fan base.

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I know but you understand my point that the mature perspective is that this is just "the madness of crowds" in action. Maybe he's using it, but on some level fixating on them as PSU fans is a waste of time.

I think there's a pretty big disconnect between most high level athletes (at least American athletes) and "mature perspective."

Edited September 16 by VakAttack

[Caveira]

3 hours ago, Dogbone said:

He made this exact weight in March)

I mean this is obvious.  Imo He is bulking up to 197 to face that other guy he photoshopped an adult toy into a pic while calling him out…..   or grave pizzing.    
 

what do you think cael thinks about his behavior?
 

#StayClassy.   

[dragit]

It's complicated.  

The Jordan comparison is interesting.  I do think that Burroughs has some similar uber-competitive traits which are a big part of his success, and that that includes using perceived slights as motivation.

I'll also say that I'm not a giant Burroughs fan, I was rooting for Marsteller, whose travails I find compelling.  And I'm not crazy about some things about Burroughs -- the head clubbing, not a gracious loser, etc.  I also disagree with the notion that he is the GOAT over John Smith.

But nothing he does is anywhere near being outside of a normal and acceptable range in the extraordinarily competitive and high stakes world he inhabits.  To boo him or show anything but the highest respect for his achievements and for his life is bizarre to me.

He is not a complete jackass like Michael Jordan, who has no ability to control himself even years after retiring from competition (someone mentioned cringing at Burroughs statement about Starocci's knee; if you want to cringe yourself into a seizure watch and try to make your way to the end of the absolute embarrassment that is Jordan's Hall of Fame speech). 

He has always been completely candid about the zero sum game that is competition for the one spot on a world team, and he makes no bones about his view that he has to beat people on the mat to provide for his family (he's an earnest family man).  This to me is way more valuable to the fan to hear than platitudes.

He trains like hell, he fights through major injuries, and he supplements his physical skills with as good a mental game as there is in sports.  Plus he's further contributed to the sport as a knowledgeable, insightful, and well-expressed announcer who can adapt to a range of broadcast partners from Jim Gibbons to Cormier.  And I have no way of knowing for sure, but it's possible that his success in the early 2010s helped contribute to a surge of top wrestlers of color in recent years. 

If he wants to be a little ungracious and not stay above the fray with Messenbrink's antics (a guy I love watching wrestle) and be a little over the top in his interview with the it's me vs the entire institution of Penn State wrestling when it was mainly one guy who was way over the line, I got no problem with that if it helped produce the viewing pleasure of the clinic that Burroughs put on this weekend at age 36 against a strong field.  

 

[WrestlingRash]

Should Daton Fix retire? He just got beat by a high school kid. Probably time to hang it up and go to midget wrestling, oops I mean MMA. 

[Caveira]

I mean pa fans sort of have a long standing precedence of being bad / nasty fans …… no?  I mean Phillies / eagles are #1/2 respectively on this list and psu is #7

 https://www.gq.com/gallery/worst-sports-fans-in-america

Psu blurb:

Behold: a group of fans so vile that the university had to adopt a resolution denouncing "negative cheering" all the way back in 2000. Loophole: They didn't tell the kids not to throw stuff! Thus students from the Princeton Review's 2010 top party school have pelted visiting players and band members with snowballs, mud balls, and bottles of urine. Lacking projectiles during the 2008 riots that followed a win over Ohio State, Penn fans uprooted small trees to hurl at police. And let's not forget the notorious 2007 incident in which a crowd of onlookers cheered as a student chased down two OSU fans and threw a full can of beer at their heads. Video of that assault was proudly posted on YouTube, tagged as "comedy."
 

Note: maybe Cstar got his pizz for the graves from the bottles of urine in the article.  And this is gq magazine not some trashy publication.   Their view of a comedy seems misplaced.  
 

a Posting about the game: https://tidefans.com/forums/threads/behavior-of-fans-after-penn-osu-game-was-embarrassing-for-the-ncaa.64849/.   I found a link to the vid but YouTube took it down because of the violence  

 

 

[Hammerlock3]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

I think there's a pretty big disconnect between most high level athletes (at least American athletes) and "mature perspective."

not sure where i implied anything different.

[swoopdown]

https://youtu.be/4nYv0agw21c?t=541

Fans were booing the push.  If it hadn't happened JB would have walked out of the arena to polite applause.

The JB doth protest too much, methinks.

 

 

[1032004]

He could be referring to Nickal as a “coach,” considering he was in Nolf’s corner when he beat Burroughs

[skandar]

8 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

this is just a stupid post.

Oh look another one