Ben Askren - If you are high schooler who wants to go to Iowa, don't

[flyingcement]

15 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

no one is reading all that.

[1032004]

16 hours ago, BAC said:

Whatever you think of Askren, he's not entirely wrong here, and if anything may be understating the severity of Iowa's missteps here. A few related reasons:

1.  They will lose top high school recruits who view Iowa as overly disloyal, as Iowa is the first to hit "zero loyalty" threshold. Yes, there's been "recruiting over" before, but until now, there's always been a sense that, for wresters of a certain seniority and skill level, the coaching staff will be like "naw, I'm good" when transfers come knocking or donors are asking coaches on encrypted Telegram threads who to go after.  Glazier/Buchanan changes all that. The idea that a school would go out on the open market to try to financially lure in someone to displace a 5th year senior who had only 1 loss going into B1Gs is stunning. It means no one is safe. High school recruits will see this and know, for a fact, that unless you just won a national title, Iowa is going to be trying, every year, to pull in someone better than you. For the most part, other schools have used the portal to fill holes, but only Iowa has sought to use it to upgrade everywhere. As long as other top schools don't follow suit to the same extreme extent, that's going to push recruits away from Iowa, and be a huge recruiting advantage for their competition. 

2. This turn toward transfers and away from loyalty is especially harmful to Iowa, which historically has been so reliant on their branding to lure in recruits.  Come to Iowa for the "Iowa style," Iowa once said.  "Oh that Johnny, he really wrestles the Iowa Style, he'd be great for them," wrestlers hear.  But not anymore. They can't say that's their brand when they just have a hodge-podge of guys from different programs who each wrestler their own pre-developed style, most of which don't really mesh with Iowa in any particular way. Kids might go to Iowa because they fare well, but their branding, already eroding, is down the tube. They're losing their cache and sales pitch.

3.  Ben was right to cite the loss of culture, too.  It's the difference between a bunch of close-knit guys who came up from the farm system, and a bunch of guys who came on as free agents.  They just aren't going to be that tight, with no sense of solidarity or brotherhood.  Recruits doing their on-campus visits won't see the camaraderie, and existing guys will find easier to leave without feeling bad or nostalgic.  (As is clearly the case with 5 leaving in 3 days.)  I suspect the guys that remain will be that much harder to coach, too, as these aren't guys who have "bought in" on the Iowa way or the Tom/Terry coaching style. They are guys who are bought and paid for, and have no reason to care much about what Tom/Terry have to say.  They'll yammer on about what it means to put on a black and gold singlet, and these guys will just laugh.

4. Iowa's spending is also too high on transfers relative to existing athletes. It isn't sustainable. I have no idea if the money being speculated on Twitter is accurate (e.g. $500K each for Parco, Teemer, Buchanan), but as some have pointed out, now guys like Ayala are going to look since they're being paid a fraction of that. That means you aren't just losing the guys at the weights where you recruited over them, you're also losing top guys at other weights who feel they aren't being treated fairly.  

5.  Admittedly, none of points 1-4 really matter if they have the bankroll to turn Iowa into the New York Yankees every season, buying a near-full roster every year.  But the money won't be there forever.  As I understand it, it's pretty much coming from one guy, and he's a pretty shady dude as it is. What happens when his money runs out or he crosses one too many lines, whether in recruiting or in any other seedy dealings? Iowa isn't nearly as flush with alumni money as many other schools.  When that money dries up, then what?  They'll need to rebuild their brand, their culture, the illusion of loyalty all over again, from scratch. Have fun with that.

This whole thing reminds me of the Ferrari fiasco from last year:  sacrificing integrity on the altar of winning, compromising whatever principles are needed to get ahead.  At least AJ saved them before that went too far.  But I don't think there's any saving Iowa from themselves this time.

Are you a PSU fan?  This seems a bit biased.  Drawing the line at Glazier is odd to me, considering he won 1 match at NCAA’s last year, and Penn State has displaced at least one All-American via the transfer portal.   Glazier probably isn’t even the best guy this season to lose a spot in the Iowa lineup due to transfers, that title belongs to Kennedy IMO, and he’s still there.  Overall I think guys at schools like Penn State and Iowa know your spot is never really safe.

It’s also a near certainty that guys like Nagao and Truax got significant sums of money to go to Penn State, even if was less than what Iowa offered, which may be more than what existing team members are getting (or maybe not considering the rumored amount that Starocci is getting).

[Weight of the World]

Are the Iowa fans happy?  Iowa will never win another title with the Brands coaching.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, Weight of the World said:

Are the Iowa fans happy?  Iowa will never win another title with the Brands coaching.

Take it easy Mr. Glazier...

[VakAttack]

On 9/1/2024 at 8:00 PM, BAC said:

Whatever you think of Askren, he's not entirely wrong here, and if anything may be understating the severity of Iowa's missteps here. A few related reasons:

1.  They will lose top high school recruits who view Iowa as overly disloyal, as Iowa is the first to hit "zero loyalty" threshold. Yes, there's been "recruiting over" before, but until now, there's always been a sense that, for wresters of a certain seniority and skill level, the coaching staff will be like "naw, I'm good" when transfers come knocking or donors are asking coaches on encrypted Telegram threads who to go after.  Glazier/Buchanan changes all that. The idea that a school would go out on the open market to try to financially lure in someone to displace a 5th year senior who had only 1 loss going into B1Gs is stunning. It means no one is safe. High school recruits will see this and know, for a fact, that unless you just won a national title, Iowa is going to be trying, every year, to pull in someone better than you. For the most part, other schools have used the portal to fill holes, but only Iowa has sought to use it to upgrade everywhere. As long as other top schools don't follow suit to the same extreme extent, that's going to push recruits away from Iowa, and be a huge recruiting advantage for their competition. 

2. This turn toward transfers and away from loyalty is especially harmful to Iowa, which historically has been so reliant on their branding to lure in recruits.  Come to Iowa for the "Iowa style," Iowa once said.  "Oh that Johnny, he really wrestles the Iowa Style, he'd be great for them," wrestlers hear.  But not anymore. They can't say that's their brand when they just have a hodge-podge of guys from different programs who each wrestler their own pre-developed style, most of which don't really mesh with Iowa in any particular way. Kids might go to Iowa because they fare well, but their branding, already eroding, is down the tube. They're losing their cache and sales pitch.

3.  Ben was right to cite the loss of culture, too.  It's the difference between a bunch of close-knit guys who came up from the farm system, and a bunch of guys who came on as free agents.  They just aren't going to be that tight, with no sense of solidarity or brotherhood.  Recruits doing their on-campus visits won't see the camaraderie, and existing guys will find easier to leave without feeling bad or nostalgic.  (As is clearly the case with 5 leaving in 3 days.)  I suspect the guys that remain will be that much harder to coach, too, as these aren't guys who have "bought in" on the Iowa way or the Tom/Terry coaching style. They are guys who are bought and paid for, and have no reason to care much about what Tom/Terry have to say.  They'll yammer on about what it means to put on a black and gold singlet, and these guys will just laugh.

4. Iowa's spending is also too high on transfers relative to existing athletes. It isn't sustainable. I have no idea if the money being speculated on Twitter is accurate (e.g. $500K each for Parco, Teemer, Buchanan), but as some have pointed out, now guys like Ayala are going to look since they're being paid a fraction of that. That means you aren't just losing the guys at the weights where you recruited over them, you're also losing top guys at other weights who feel they aren't being treated fairly.  

5.  Admittedly, none of points 1-4 really matter if they have the bankroll to turn Iowa into the New York Yankees every season, buying a near-full roster every year.  But the money won't be there forever.  As I understand it, it's pretty much coming from one guy, and he's a pretty shady dude as it is. What happens when his money runs out or he crosses one too many lines, whether in recruiting or in any other seedy dealings? Iowa isn't nearly as flush with alumni money as many other schools.  When that money dries up, then what?  They'll need to rebuild their brand, their culture, the illusion of loyalty all over again, from scratch. Have fun with that.

This whole thing reminds me of the Ferrari fiasco from last year:  sacrificing integrity on the altar of winning, compromising whatever principles are needed to get ahead.  At least AJ saved them before that went too far.  But I don't think there's any saving Iowa from themselves this time.

BAC, my friend, this is a lot of sturm and drang over nothing.  I'll go point by point.

 

1.  Most of this is fiction you have written in your head.  Also, Penn State, the current gold standard, quite literally took Max Dean when they had an actual AA/high end recruit in Beard.  Neither Siebrecht nor Glazier were high end recruits, and they both got opportunities.  Siebrecht went 14-8 and then 1-2 at NCAAs.  Then he got suspended for a year (unfairly, IMO, but still).  His best win is his OT win over Will Lewan, who goes to OT with everybody.  Glazier was 20-4 at a relatively weak weight, but his best wins were over non-AAs SIlas Allred and Jaxon Smith.  Almost nobody has a guaranteed spot at a high end D1 school, certainly not those resumes.  Tough wrestlers that vastly improved during their time, which is a testament to the coaching staff and the athletes own hard work, but this isn't "disloyalty."  Neither of these guys was a high AA threat based on everything we've seen, and Iowa got two title threats in their stead.  All the other athletes that left were depth guys.  Pretty sure that Penn State had similar guys to them when they brought in Messenbrink, Nagao, Truax, etc.  OKlahoma State the same by bringing in Hendrickson and Hamiti.

 

2.  This is, again, just made up.  Hell, Cobe Siebrecht, one of the leaving wrestlers, hardly wrestled a traditional "Iowa style."  Iowa has already become a school with more varied styles on the roster than they get credit for.  Kids are going to come to the school if the athletes succeed, not because Iowa just "stayed loyal" to some low AA threat wrestlers.  Iowa's goal is to close the gap with Penn State at 2025 NCAAs, and they did that.

3.  Again, this is just made up.  You have no idea what the internal dynamics of the team is.  Gabe Arnold's dad just posted a picture with a bunch of the team, and I saw at least Parco there.  Maybe everybody hates Glazier (I don't think this, but you also have no idea)?  Maybe the Siebrecht's only hang out with each other?  Or maybe the kids know that athletes transfer, and they don't get too fussed one way or the other, and wish the departing teammates well but root for the new teammates.

 

4.  Again, this is all complete supposition.  You admit you have no idea how much anybody is actually getting, then you just assume that Ayala is getting a fraction of that.   This is all basically fanfic.

 

5.  Comparing this to the Ferrari thing is insane.  Ferrari was a timebomb (and I said so at the time) and they never should have brought him in.  There's NOTHING like that about Buchanan or Teemer, and Iowa would have been stupid to not bring them just to make sure that Zach Glazier and Cobe Siebrecht stayed happy.  Seriously, on what planet should guys at that level just be treated as if they were set it and forget it starters?

 

I know you're not a Brands fan.  I get it.  I was one of the people advocating for bringing Taylor in this year.  But this was absolutely the right thing for them to do, bringing in Teemer, Buchanan, and Parco.  It would have been malpractice not to.

3 hours ago, Weight of the World said:

Are the Iowa fans happy?  Iowa will never win another title with the Brands coaching.

I'm not super happy, but this was also said prior to Iowa winning the team title three years ago.

[Hammerlock3]

11 hours ago, alex1fly said:

Ahahahahaha I thought it was a great read. 

guess i missed out

[BAC]

15 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Are you a PSU fan?  This seems a bit biased.  Drawing the line at Glazier is odd to me, considering he won 1 match at NCAA’s last year, and Penn State has displaced at least one All-American via the transfer portal.   Glazier probably isn’t even the best guy this season to lose a spot in the Iowa lineup due to transfers, that title belongs to Kennedy IMO, and he’s still there.  Overall I think guys at schools like Penn State and Iowa know your spot is never really safe.

It’s also a near certainty that guys like Nagao and Truax got significant sums of money to go to Penn State, even if was less than what Iowa offered, which may be more than what existing team members are getting (or maybe not considering the rumored amount that Starocci is getting).

I prefer PSU to Iowa, no doubt, but I'm trying to be fair here.  To start with, I was pretty vocal about not liking the whole Dean/Beard thing either.  But it feels very different to me. 

Beard was only a RS freshman while Dean had 2 years of eligibility, and it wasn't crazy to think a spot would sort out for Beard after a year.  But Glazier is a straight-up displacing of a 5th year senior, in favor of another 5th year senior, where the difference (while extant) is negligible.  It's the quintessential "no one is safe" example:  5 years on a team, ranked top 10, and it *still* didn't earn him enough team loyalty for his *last* year to avoid getting intentionally displaced.  We've never seen anything like that. In a sport that puts a premium on loyalty and team cohesion, I didn't think it would come to that.

Also, Dean was pre-NIL.  He wasn't offered a stack of cash in outstretched hand -- he just decided to come, and it isn't a coach's role to say "no, you aren't welcome here."  I don't know the facts, but I'm not naive enough to think Cael & company didn't encourage him, or that they didn't free up some scholly $ (hence my annoyance). But it's a far cry from Buchanan, who was basically bribed to come to Iowa with a stack of cash tall enough to get Stormy Daniels to go quiet again.

If PSU falls suit with a Glazier-level displacement, I'll be the first to holler, but I don't think there's any comparison.

BTW, I do agree that Kennedy's another example, but not quite as egregious as he's get 2 years left I think (vs. 1 for Teemer) and I'm not 100% sure he won't sort into the lineup somehow this year.

[BAC]

18 hours ago, alex1fly said:

Ahahahahaha I thought it was a great read. 

LOL at least one person read it!  

[BAC]

On 9/1/2024 at 9:14 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

no one is reading all that.

Reminded me of this:

 

[BAC]

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

BAC, my friend, this is a lot of sturm and drang over nothing.  I'll go point by point.

Good to hear from you brother!

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

1.  Most of this is fiction you have written in your head.  Also, Penn State, the current gold standard, quite literally took Max Dean when they had an actual AA/high end recruit in Beard.  Neither Siebrecht nor Glazier were high end recruits, and they both got opportunities.  Siebrecht went 14-8 and then 1-2 at NCAAs.  Then he got suspended for a year (unfairly, IMO, but still).  His best win is his OT win over Will Lewan, who goes to OT with everybody.  Glazier was 20-4 at a relatively weak weight, but his best wins were over non-AAs SIlas Allred and Jaxon Smith.  Almost nobody has a guaranteed spot at a high end D1 school, certainly not those resumes.  Tough wrestlers that vastly improved during their time, which is a testament to the coaching staff and the athletes own hard work, but this isn't "disloyalty."  Neither of these guys was a high AA threat based on everything we've seen, and Iowa got two title threats in their stead.  All the other athletes that left were depth guys.  Pretty sure that Penn State had similar guys to them when they brought in Messenbrink, Nagao, Truax, etc.  OKlahoma State the same by bringing in Hendrickson and Hamiti.

See my earlier comments on this.  No doubt PSU, Iowa and Michigan, among others, have done some poaching. But I think Glazier is a new level -- a new low? -- for the reasons I said. Who kicks out a 5th yr senior of Glazier's quality, forcing his transfer in his last year?  Booting a 6th-7th type guy who shed black and gold tears for 5 years just to get a 3rd type guy? Thats astonishing and unprecedented, and honestly I hate it. Here's to rooting for a Glazier vs. Beard NCAA final.

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

2.  This is, again, just made up.  Hell, Cobe Siebrecht, one of the leaving wrestlers, hardly wrestled a traditional "Iowa style."  Iowa has already become a school with more varied styles on the roster than they get credit for.  Kids are going to come to the school if the athletes succeed, not because Iowa just "stayed loyal" to some low AA threat wrestlers.  Iowa's goal is to close the gap with Penn State at 2025 NCAAs, and they did that.

I don't really disagree that the cache of the "Iowa Style" thing has been deteriorating for a couple decades now.  But it still has some residual value as a recruiting tool, and it's hard to see it retaining that value now.

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

3.  Again, this is just made up.  You have no idea what the internal dynamics of the team is.  Gabe Arnold's dad just posted a picture with a bunch of the team, and I saw at least Parco there.  Maybe everybody hates Glazier (I don't think this, but you also have no idea)?  Maybe the Siebrecht's only hang out with each other?  Or maybe the kids know that athletes transfer, and they don't get too fussed one way or the other, and wish the departing teammates well but root for the new teammates.

To deny this is to deny that culture exists.  You're right, I don't know the first thing about the dynamics of the team, but since I don't have rocks in my head, I know that the bonds are going to be more tight-knit among a group of guys that have been together for several years than a handful of all-stars from other programs that are thrown together for a season.  You know that too.  We also know it's harder to coach and instill values and a "system" in a bunch of prima-donnas who are already sui generis (that's for you Vak). That's true for the likes of Mich and PSU too, but the more reliant on transfers you are, the more pronounced. 

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

4.  Again, this is all complete supposition.  You admit you have no idea how much anybody is actually getting, then you just assume that Ayala is getting a fraction of that.   This is all basically fanfic.

Maybe but it's good fanfic.  There's a couple articles out the saying Ayala's pissed or going to be pissed because he's only getting $100K, that Angelo's not happy, etc.  Either way, one thing you know is if you dump a boatload of money on a transfer, you better be ready to dump that same amount on existing athletes with comparable accomplishments, or be ready to explain why not. That's to say nothing of other athletes who may achieve this year:  if Gabe or Keuter lands high on the stand, will they be saying "I assume that opens the door to my $500K"?  Not jealous of that dynamic.

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

5.  Comparing this to the Ferrari thing is insane.  Ferrari was a timebomb (and I said so at the time) and they never should have brought him in.  There's NOTHING like that about Buchanan or Teemer, and Iowa would have been stupid to not bring them just to make sure that Zach Glazier and Cobe Siebrecht stayed happy.  Seriously, on what planet should guys at that level just be treated as if they were set it and forget it starters?

I'm not remotely comparing personalities, as you know.  I have nothing bad to say about any of the guys coming in (other than their poor taste in singlet colors).  The comparison I'm making is the degree of harm to the program, for the reasons I said.  I actually think this may well be worse.

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

I know you're not a Brands fan.  I get it.  I was one of the people advocating for bringing Taylor in this year.  But this was absolutely the right thing for them to do, bringing in Teemer, Buchanan, and Parco.  It would have been malpractice not to.

I'm not super happy, but this was also said prior to Iowa winning the team title three years ago.

Not a Brands fan but I've mellowed.  I'll gladly beat up PSU when I think they misstep (e.g. Beard/Dean, Brooks' muslim stuff, etc), and praised Iowa when they get things right (e.g. their women's program).  Some of what Iowa is doing is interchangeable with what other B1G schools are doing, or are trying to do.  But Glazier is a palpable new low, and for a school as culture/brand dependent as Iowa, I think it hurts them like no other school.  And I generally find it distasteful.

[1032004]

1 hour ago, BAC said:

I prefer PSU to Iowa, no doubt, but I'm trying to be fair here.  To start with, I was pretty vocal about not liking the whole Dean/Beard thing either.  But it feels very different to me. 

Beard was only a RS freshman while Dean had 2 years of eligibility, and it wasn't crazy to think a spot would sort out for Beard after a year.  But Glazier is a straight-up displacing of a 5th year senior, in favor of another 5th year senior, where the difference (while extant) is negligible.  It's the quintessential "no one is safe" example:  5 years on a team, ranked top 10, and it *still* didn't earn him enough team loyalty for his *last* year to avoid getting intentionally displaced.  We've never seen anything like that. In a sport that puts a premium on loyalty and team cohesion, I didn't think it would come to that.

Also, Dean was pre-NIL.  He wasn't offered a stack of cash in outstretched hand -- he just decided to come, and it isn't a coach's role to say "no, you aren't welcome here."  I don't know the facts, but I'm not naive enough to think Cael & company didn't encourage him, or that they didn't free up some scholly $ (hence my annoyance). But it's a far cry from Buchanan, who was basically bribed to come to Iowa with a stack of cash tall enough to get Stormy Daniels to go quiet again.

If PSU falls suit with a Glazier-level displacement, I'll be the first to holler, but I don't think there's any comparison.

BTW, I do agree that Kennedy's another example, but not quite as egregious as he's get 2 years left I think (vs. 1 for Teemer) and I'm not 100% sure he won't sort into the lineup somehow this year.

5th year senior and 2x All American Nick Nevills was also “intentionally displaced” in the PSU lineup, albeit not by a transfer.

I agree that what Iowa did this offseason is “the worst” we’ve seen so far, but that’s simply because they’re poaching guys that weren’t in the portal.  Doesn’t really have anything to do with the guys losing their spot in the lineup IMO.

[Wrestleknownothing]

12 hours ago, VakAttack said:

sturm and drang

A+

[Mr. PeanutButter]

4 hours ago, BAC said:

Good to hear from you brother!

See my earlier comments on this.  No doubt PSU, Iowa and Michigan, among others, have done some poaching. But I think Glazier is a new level -- a new low? -- for the reasons I said. Who kicks out a 5th yr senior of Glazier's quality, forcing his transfer in his last year?  Booting a 6th-7th type guy who shed black and gold tears for 5 years just to get a 3rd type guy? Thats astonishing and unprecedented, and honestly I hate it. Here's to rooting for a Glazier vs. Beard NCAA final.

I don't really disagree that the cache of the "Iowa Style" thing has been deteriorating for a couple decades now.  But it still has some residual value as a recruiting tool, and it's hard to see it retaining that value now.

To deny this is to deny that culture exists.  You're right, I don't know the first thing about the dynamics of the team, but since I don't have rocks in my head, I know that the bonds are going to be more tight-knit among a group of guys that have been together for several years than a handful of all-stars from other programs that are thrown together for a season.  You know that too.  We also know it's harder to coach and instill values and a "system" in a bunch of prima-donnas who are already sui generis (that's for you Vak). That's true for the likes of Mich and PSU too, but the more reliant on transfers you are, the more pronounced. 

Maybe but it's good fanfic.  There's a couple articles out the saying Ayala's pissed or going to be pissed because he's only getting $100K, that Angelo's not happy, etc.  Either way, one thing you know is if you dump a boatload of money on a transfer, you better be ready to dump that same amount on existing athletes with comparable accomplishments, or be ready to explain why not. That's to say nothing of other athletes who may achieve this year:  if Gabe or Keuter lands high on the stand, will they be saying "I assume that opens the door to my $500K"?  Not jealous of that dynamic.

I'm not remotely comparing personalities, as you know.  I have nothing bad to say about any of the guys coming in (other than their poor taste in singlet colors).  The comparison I'm making is the degree of harm to the program, for the reasons I said.  I actually think this may well be worse.

Not a Brands fan but I've mellowed.  I'll gladly beat up PSU when I think they misstep (e.g. Beard/Dean, Brooks' muslim stuff, etc), and praised Iowa when they get things right (e.g. their women's program).  Some of what Iowa is doing is interchangeable with what other B1G schools are doing, or are trying to do.  But Glazier is a palpable new low, and for a school as culture/brand dependent as Iowa, I think it hurts them like no other school.  And I generally find it distasteful.

I too am concerned at the impact the carousel of transfers might have on team culture.

However, I have to disagree that the difference between Glazier and Buchanan is negligible. The Glaze scored 1.5 points last year. I'm sad to see him go and wish him well but all objective measures point to his replacement being a notable upgrade. Doesn't mean I have to be ecstatic about it and doesn't change the fact that I think an overreliance on transfers is a potentially disquieting trend.

Everything I've heard indicates that Ayala is well taken care of and is happy with where he is at. I haven't heard anyone say Angelo is having anything other than a pretty good time.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 hours ago, BAC said:

I prefer PSU to Iowa, no doubt, but I'm trying to be fair here.  To start with, I was pretty vocal about not liking the whole Dean/Beard thing either.  But it feels very different to me. 

Beard was only a RS freshman while Dean had 2 years of eligibility, and it wasn't crazy to think a spot would sort out for Beard after a year.  But Glazier is a straight-up displacing of a 5th year senior, in favor of another 5th year senior, where the difference (while extant) is negligible.  It's the quintessential "no one is safe" example:  5 years on a team, ranked top 10, and it *still* didn't earn him enough team loyalty for his *last* year to avoid getting intentionally displaced.  We've never seen anything like that. In a sport that puts a premium on loyalty and team cohesion, I didn't think it would come to that.

 

Was Glazier even expected to start last year, or was he a beneficiary of gambling suspensions and/or Ferrari's misadventures?

Edited September 3 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[1032004]

15 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Was Glazier even expected to start last year, or was he a beneficiary of gambling suspensions and/or Ferrari's misadventures?

Well if you’re saying Ferrari was “expected” to actually compete, then no.  But even outside of him Glazier had also lost to fellow Hawkeye Kolby Franklin during the previous season (who did not wrestle in 2023-2024 and appears to have now “medically retired”)

[fishbane]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

5th year senior and 2x All American Nick Nevills was also “intentionally displaced” in the PSU lineup, albeit not by a transfer.

I agree that what Iowa did this offseason is “the worst” we’ve seen so far, but that’s simply because they’re poaching guys that weren’t in the portal.  Doesn’t really have anything to do with the guys losing their spot in the lineup IMO.

Before that PSU had 4x PA Champ Thomas Haines committed to come to Happy Valley before he got recruited over for Nevills.  Thomas Haines recommitted ended up going to Ohio State. He transferred mid season in 2015-16 to Lock Haven after Kyle Snyder announced he was pulling his redshirt and going up to 285.  

PSUs recruiting over Haines received some criticism at the time.  Haines was #9 on the 2014 Big Board and Nevilles was #5.  Haines was a PA guy going to his state's university and Nevilles was from the other side of the country and though he had beaten Haines was seen as a marginal improvement.  Ultimately Nevilles had a much better career and proved to be the better choice.  Snyder who displaced Haines at Ohio State was #1 in the class of 2014.

A wrestler being displaced by an incoming freshman or beaten out by teammate is something that's happened time and time again.  Paying a 6th year senior $500 large to displace your 6th year senior is something new.

[BAC]

13 hours ago, 1032004 said:

5th year senior and 2x All American Nick Nevills was also “intentionally displaced” in the PSU lineup, albeit not by a transfer.

I agree that what Iowa did this offseason is “the worst” we’ve seen so far, but that’s simply because they’re poaching guys that weren’t in the portal.  Doesn’t really have anything to do with the guys losing their spot in the lineup IMO.

Isn't that the year Cassar beat him out?  Not sure I see how that example is relevant here. That's just two guys who spent their whole career with the Nits landing in the same weight class as upperclassmen. Cassar, who couldn't crack the lineup the year before, decided to go up, and only one could go.  Isn't that kind of the exact opposite of what we are talking about?  Two homegrown guys in a top team who bump heads.  PSU didn't "intentionally displace" anyone, it's just the reality that the #1 team is going to have some depth.

[1032004]

1 hour ago, BAC said:

Isn't that the year Cassar beat him out?  Not sure I see how that example is relevant here. That's just two guys who spent their whole career with the Nits landing in the same weight class as upperclassmen. Cassar, who couldn't crack the lineup the year before, decided to go up, and only one could go.  Isn't that kind of the exact opposite of what we are talking about?  Two homegrown guys in a top team who bump heads.  PSU didn't "intentionally displace" anyone, it's just the reality that the #1 team is going to have some depth.

Correct, but you said Glazier is an example of “no one is safe.”  No one is safe at PSU either

[VakAttack]

The idea that we're talking about Zack Glazier, who didn't crack the lineup until last year and had a solid season in a weak weight, particularly in the Big 10, topped off by a terrible NCAA showing as some sort of sacred cow is wild.

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

The idea that we're talking about Zack Glazier, who didn't crack the lineup until last year and had a solid season in a weak weight, particularly in the Big 10, topped off by a terrible NCAA showing as some sort of sacred cow is wild.

If only we had reaction ...

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

"We like our guys, until we don't."

[Truzzcat]

This happens in every other sport; you recruit and now pay to put your best lineup possible out there. Iowa wrestling is in and of itself a business. Was what they did morally the best thing I don't know but I know it made them a much better team. At the end of the day their job is to put the best product they can on the mat.

[steamboat_charlie]

On 9/3/2024 at 5:18 AM, BAC said:

But Glazier is a straight-up displacing of a 5th year senior, in favor of another 5th year senior, where the difference (while extant) is negligible. 

I agree with some of what you're saying, but this does not sound "objective."  

The distance between Buchanan and Glazier isn't negligible, it's significant.  Claiming otherwise calls into question your motivation, as well as the rest of the content of your post.  

[1032004]

Speaking of boosters trying to replace guys, on HR Willie seems to be implying there is truth to the claim that an OK State booster made an offer to Ayala, although supposedly Taylor nixed it (and allegedly also reduced NIL amounts that Hamiti and Hendrickson had agreed to before Taylor was hired).

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Speaking of boosters trying to replace guys, on HR Willie seems to be implying there is truth to the claim that an OK State booster made an offer to Ayala, although supposedly Taylor nixed it (and allegedly also reduced NIL amounts that Hamiti and Hendrickson had agreed to before Taylor was hired).

How can a coach reduce NIL amounts?  I would also imagine a contact with a local car dealership, perhaps, was inviolable.