I guess Dake still doesn’t like Burroughs

[1032004]

“When you wrestle Jordan you have to be ready for some headbutts to the face.”

Good interview though, he said he’d be interested In wrestling Sidakov somewhere else.  Also some good comments on suggestions for youth coaches

 

 

[wrestlingshoe]

I don't necessarily think it is Burrows.  I think he is still salty about the entire situation and how Burrows benefitted from sitting out.  Earlier in the interview he mentioned wrestling the tournament and then wrestling Jordan, and he repeated that statement three times in a row. While he may not be a fan of Jordan's, if he was able to face him without the mini-tournaments, he may feel different. I'm sure he feels that he would have been the 74 rep early in his career if that were the case.  

[peanut]

Byes are certainly tough for challengers to deal with.

Edited July 9 by peanut

[wrestlingshoe]

He has to remember his own adivce... control what you can control. 

[pokemonster]

Seems like Sidakov is moving on to MMA unfortunately. Gets to ride into the sunset having never lost to Dake

[alliseeisgold]

Dake the guy who never loses close matches couldn't win close matches vs Jordan or sidakov. And jb the master of clutch couldn't out clutch sidakov

Sidakov is top of the mountain of these 3. Truly special. If im sid I'm walking into the sunset. Sorry dake. Not giving u that match. Sidakov has nothing to prove. He was the best

Edited July 9 by alliseeisgold

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, alliseeisgold said:

Dake the guy who never loses close matches couldn't win close matches vs Jordan or sidakov. And jb the master of clutch couldn't out clutch sidakov

Sidakov is top of the mountain of these 3. Truly special. If im sid I'm walking into the sunset. Sorry dake. Not giving u that match. Sidakov has nothing to prove. He was the best

His wins over chamizo too. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Got me thinking, he had to go through those three bad ass dudes, all three who wrestle completely differently, and he wasn’t the savy veteran fighting off the new crop (i.e. JB vs Dake; Taylor; etc)……he had to run them down. He found ways to out wrestle all three and run the table on them.  That’s a bad ass dude. 

[alliseeisgold]

Sidakov I think is the best pound for pound wrestler of the last decade. Historically. He should be considered one of the goats.

[GrandOlm]

3 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

Sidakov I think is the best pound for pound wrestler of the last decade. Historically. He should be considered one of the goats.

I think he'll be forgotten. No one remembers Salman even though he achieved about the same and his career ended similarly due to politics. 

[peanut]

15 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

Dake the guy who never loses close matches couldn't win close matches vs Jordan or sidakov. And jb the master of clutch couldn't out clutch sidakov

Sidakov is top of the mountain of these 3. Truly special. If im sid I'm walking into the sunset. Sorry dake. Not giving u that match. Sidakov has nothing to prove. He was the best

Tough to say. Sidakov caught JB when JB was already 30. IMO that was not prime JB. 

[peanut]

13 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

Sidakov I think is the best pound for pound wrestler of the last decade. Historically. He should be considered one of the goats.

Sidakov taking out JB twice, Olympic Kadzi, and Dake is indeed impressive. 

[GrandOlm]

10 hours ago, peanut said:

Sidakov taking out JB twice, Olympic Kadzi, and Dake is indeed impressive. 

Why Kadzi? He is a pretty minor figure in the grand scheme of senior level wrestling? Or do you just mean his form was that good at Tokyo. 

[Truzzcat]

On 7/9/2024 at 6:51 PM, alliseeisgold said:

Dake the guy who never loses close matches couldn't win close matches vs Jordan or sidakov. And jb the master of clutch couldn't out clutch sidakov

Sidakov is top of the mountain of these 3. Truly special. If im sid I'm walking into the sunset. Sorry dake. Not giving u that match. Sidakov has nothing to prove. He was the best

I don't necessarily disagree, I think the caveat is that Jordan was 30 and 31 when they wrestled so you could definitely argue not Jordan in his prime which I think was probably 2011-2017.

[peanut]

18 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

Why Kadzi? He is a pretty minor figure in the grand scheme of senior level wrestling? Or do you just mean his form was that good at Tokyo. 

He looked really good in Tokyo, until he hit Sidakov. 

[Scouts Honor]

toughen up

or don't use the first line of defense

[billyhoyle]

On 7/9/2024 at 3:51 PM, alliseeisgold said:

Dake the guy who never loses close matches couldn't win close matches vs Jordan or sidakov. And jb the master of clutch couldn't out clutch sidakov

Sidakov is top of the mountain of these 3. Truly special. If im sid I'm walking into the sunset. Sorry dake. Not giving u that match. Sidakov has nothing to prove. He was the best

So we are saying Sidakov is better than JB because he beat JB well past his prime and Dake, who got teched by a Bellarussian at the Olympics?  Tsargush was dominant until he ran into JB. JB in his prime takes out Sidakov in his prime. 

[mspart]

I believe this is true. 

mspart

[BAC]

11 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

So we are saying Sidakov is better than JB because he beat JB well past his prime and Dake, who got teched by a Bellarussian at the Olympics?  Tsargush was dominant until he ran into JB. JB in his prime takes out Sidakov in his prime. 

I dunno.  Given that Jordan won worlds in 2017 and 2022, it feels like a cop-out to say his one-point losses to Sidakov in 2018 and 2019 were because he was "past his prime."  But I wouldn't put Sidakov ahead of JB either.  He may be on JB's level but hasn't matched his longevity and accomplishments.  

The "past his prime" argument is that he was basically untouchable 2011-13, and was at his athletic peak then.  Fair enough.  But he was also super raw.  His lace didn't develop until later. He got a lot savvier as he got older, IMO, mentally stronger.  Personally I think his peak ran the full decade, with peak JB being represented by varying versions of JB, his reduced athleticism over time being offset by improvements in other areas.  His losses in the latter half were more from guys finally figuring him out.

And because his peak ran for such a long time, I'm reluctant to credit Sidakov's career over JB's for beating him in just one small sliver of it, in matches that came down to a last-second score, with a near-decade's worth of Russian intel on how to beat JB.

What I feel like people forget is that when Jordan hit the scene in 2011, it was something the world had never seen.  Not just his athleticism, what he did with it:  His low double and reshot was revolutionary.  After 2011 worlds, there were so many interviews of Russians, normally disparaging of US wrestling, raving about how exceptional Jordan was. Seeing how Russia tried so hard to come up with ways to figure him out is so interesting, you could probably make a move out of it.  One of my favorite matches is the Tsargush-JB rematch in the 2012 Olympics, where Tsargush had this incredibly clever way of sweeping JB's foot to a single. Watch it: its amazing.  Didn't quite work.  But fast-forward to 2014, and Tsargush finally figured him out, beating JB at worlds 9-2. But Tsargush's career was sunsetting.  Enter Geduev -- who was this immovable tank that JB couldn't move around.  All those matches were close, JB winning by a point in '15, losing by a point in '16.  Then Tsabalov in '17, who also was strong as an ox and better technique, but lacked JB's stamina and faded. 

So by the time you get Sidakov in '18, Russia had this huge bank of knowledge about what works against JB and what doesn't.  Sidakov, to my eye, used an attacking style closer to 2014 Tsargush, but choosing only attacks that don't leave himself open to the reshot, and had the stamina and mental strength that others lacked. The '18 semis match is a classic, with JB getting a go-ahead TD with 10 seconds left, then Sidakov does the same thing with a few ticks on the clock.  Then in 2019, Sidakov does the exact same thing again, winning on a last second score.  Clutch vs clutch.  But technique-wise, no real separation. JB's blast double and reshot wasn't what it once was, but he had other things in his arsenal he didn't have before.

Then comes the pandemic, father time, Dake, and a new weight class, so it isn't fair to compare anymore, except that JB showed he can still win with his '22 title. 

When the dust settles, JB and Sidakov have the same number of Olympic titles, but Sidakov has less than half of JB's world titles.  He showed he could beat the '18-19 version of JB, but they were as close as it gets, and who knows about other years' versions of JB, without the reservoir of Russian scouting.  Not sure Sidakov would even have been the 2020 Olympian if Covid didn't happen since he lost to Tsabalov that year.  To put Sidakov ahead of JB I'd need to see him holding that same level for as long as JB, and getting it done as long as JB has.

Sorry to ramble!  

[wrestlingshoe]

Tsargush's only win against JB was when JB was hobbled.  

[Ched64]

On 7/18/2024 at 4:33 PM, BAC said:

I dunno.  Given that Jordan won worlds in 2017 and 2022, it feels like a cop-out to say his one-point losses to Sidakov in 2018 and 2019 were because he was "past his prime."  But I wouldn't put Sidakov ahead of JB either.  He may be on JB's level but hasn't matched his longevity and accomplishments.  

The "past his prime" argument is that he was basically untouchable 2011-13, and was at his athletic peak then.  Fair enough.  But he was also super raw.  His lace didn't develop until later. He got a lot savvier as he got older, IMO, mentally stronger.  Personally I think his peak ran the full decade, with peak JB being represented by varying versions of JB, his reduced athleticism over time being offset by improvements in other areas.  His losses in the latter half were more from guys finally figuring him out.

And because his peak ran for such a long time, I'm reluctant to credit Sidakov's career over JB's for beating him in just one small sliver of it, in matches that came down to a last-second score, with a near-decade's worth of Russian intel on how to beat JB.

What I feel like people forget is that when Jordan hit the scene in 2011, it was something the world had never seen.  Not just his athleticism, what he did with it:  His low double and reshot was revolutionary.  After 2011 worlds, there were so many interviews of Russians, normally disparaging of US wrestling, raving about how exceptional Jordan was. Seeing how Russia tried so hard to come up with ways to figure him out is so interesting, you could probably make a move out of it.  One of my favorite matches is the Tsargush-JB rematch in the 2012 Olympics, where Tsargush had this incredibly clever way of sweeping JB's foot to a single. Watch it: its amazing.  Didn't quite work.  But fast-forward to 2014, and Tsargush finally figured him out, beating JB at worlds 9-2. But Tsargush's career was sunsetting.  Enter Geduev -- who was this immovable tank that JB couldn't move around.  All those matches were close, JB winning by a point in '15, losing by a point in '16.  Then Tsabalov in '17, who also was strong as an ox and better technique, but lacked JB's stamina and faded. 

So by the time you get Sidakov in '18, Russia had this huge bank of knowledge about what works against JB and what doesn't.  Sidakov, to my eye, used an attacking style closer to 2014 Tsargush, but choosing only attacks that don't leave himself open to the reshot, and had the stamina and mental strength that others lacked. The '18 semis match is a classic, with JB getting a go-ahead TD with 10 seconds left, then Sidakov does the same thing with a few ticks on the clock.  Then in 2019, Sidakov does the exact same thing again, winning on a last second score.  Clutch vs clutch.  But technique-wise, no real separation. JB's blast double and reshot wasn't what it once was, but he had other things in his arsenal he didn't have before.

Then comes the pandemic, father time, Dake, and a new weight class, so it isn't fair to compare anymore, except that JB showed he can still win with his '22 title. 

When the dust settles, JB and Sidakov have the same number of Olympic titles, but Sidakov has less than half of JB's world titles.  He showed he could beat the '18-19 version of JB, but they were as close as it gets, and who knows about other years' versions of JB, without the reservoir of Russian scouting.  Not sure Sidakov would even have been the 2020 Olympian if Covid didn't happen since he lost to Tsabalov that year.  To put Sidakov ahead of JB I'd need to see him holding that same level for as long as JB, and getting it done as long as JB has.

Sorry to ramble!  

That wasn’t a “ramble” imo!  I thought it was very well reasoned and factual.  thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

[Hammerlock3]

Worth mentioning that "like" is a weird word in this context. Does Cael like tom brands, almost certainly not. Would he like Brands if they were neighbors, or in a foxhole, or in almost any other circumstance than the one they are in? yeah, they'd be great.

[AgaveMaria]

Does this mean Dake can finally win a fantasy match? We know he has lost more than 400 times to David Taylor. Maybe he wins against Sidakov?

[flyingcement]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:37 PM, pokemonster said:

Seems like Sidakov is moving on to MMA unfortunately. Gets to ride into the sunset having never lost to Dake

I always liked Sidakov better than Dake so I get a kick out of it haha

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I always liked Sidakov better than Dake so I get a kick out of it haha

I agree, but sidakov might come off worse if we spoke the same language and had been listening to him for 15 years.