Singlet grab call

[fullnelson]

Have you ever seen a point given for grabbing the singlet in UWW competition? I've seen straps torn in half, and no penalty. Think about it, if the ref doesn't make that call with 6 sec on the clock, in all probability, Taylor wins a second Olympic gold medal.

[Shibboleth]

Aliyev -Tumur Ochir, Aliev won 3-3 by on last second singlet grab caution

https://uww.org/brightcove_video/16275

There's likely others too

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Sammie Henson's singlet was repeatedly grabbed to the point of extreme stretching in his Olympic final.  No call.

Sammie did pull his opponent's singlet to the other side of his head prior to that however.  No call.

Watch from start.  Hellacious handfight.

Edited April 24 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Hammerlock3]

27 minutes ago, fullnelson said:

Have you ever seen a point given for grabbing the singlet in UWW competition? I've seen straps torn in half, and no penalty. Think about it, if the ref doesn't make that call with 6 sec on the clock, in all probability, Taylor wins a second Olympic gold medal.

didn't burroughs finally get a point against tsargush in 2011?

[Hammerlock3]

nope. We rightfully point out how annoying these coaches can be the in corner, but watch this match and its hard to argue that Jones and Manning harassing the refs unmercifully took Tsargush's best "technique" away from him.

 

epic singlet pull around the 2:15 mark

[Wrestleknownothing]

Do we know what the rules and remedies were in these years?

[lu1979]

2 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

nope. We rightfully point out how annoying these coaches can be the in corner, but watch this match and its hard to argue that Jones and Manning harassing the refs unmercifully took Tsargush's best "technique" away from him.

 

epic singlet pull around the 2:15 mark

Not only was that an epic singlet pull that didn't elicit a point but it came at a critical point in the match and could have cost JB the match.  That pull allowed Tsargush to score the go ahead point that gave him criteria to win the 1st period (back in the best 2 out of 3 period times - good riddance to that).  Obviously JBs corner protested but the gave the point to Tsargush anyway plus the lost challenge point.  Since then I have seen them take away scores due to singlet pulls - this one was so egregious that it is hard to believe the point wasn't overturned.  Fortunately JB won the next two periods and the match.

[lu1979]

In answer to FN's original question I have seen points given for grabbing the singlet - usually it would be after a warning - the one instance I was referencing above was in a match that involved Ottogura who had his singlet pulled and was scored on - I think it was Asian games.

[1032004]

Was Burroughs/Marsteller considered UWW competition?

[CHROMEBIRD]

51 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Do we know what the rules and remedies were in these years?

I believe grabbing the singlet was always prohibited, even in the super low-cut 80s & 90s Coach J singlet days. Penalty is assessed at the official's discretion, from a verbal warning to DQ or ban (assessed after the match). This came up after the Burroughs-Tsargush Grabgate and when the UWW launched its overhyped "new" singlet design.

[wrestle87]

5 hours ago, fullnelson said:

Have you ever seen a point given for grabbing the singlet in UWW competition? I've seen straps torn in half, and no penalty. Think about it, if the ref doesn't make that call with 6 sec on the clock, in all probability, Taylor wins a second Olympic gold medal.

Wrestling has been plagued for its entire existence by the influence of officiating.  International wrestling, just like other international/olympic competitions, suffers from influence and sheisty officiating in one direction or another.  The situation where you have to beat the official and your opponent is all too common.  Just ask Vito (domestically) or Chamizo (internationally) what that's like.

Officiating inconsistency and/or poor preparation is terrible.  Obviously, this is aimed to talk about the Zahid/Brooks match, which was just a salad of terrible inconsistency.  I have never actually seen a ref be so unprepared or out of place that he got run over by the wrestlers.  A sidestep is a miraculous thing.  

One of the best things about folkstyle is that the officiating is so precise compared to freestyle/greco.  The international styles are just a messy shitshow of bribery, incompetence, and inconsistency in enforcing already stupid rules.  

Edited April 24 by wrestle87

[Jason Bryant]

5 hours ago, fullnelson said:

Have you ever seen a point given for grabbing the singlet in UWW competition? I've seen straps torn in half, and no penalty. Think about it, if the ref doesn't make that call with 6 sec on the clock, in all probability, Taylor wins a second Olympic gold medal.

Multiple times ... granted, I'm also at international events on-side 2-3x a year and announcing "challenge on Mat B" so I've seen it easily more than a dozen times in recent years. I would be hard-pressed to cite a specific example though. 

[AnklePicker]

Is there a good video of this grab?  Didn’t seem like Zahid argued much so I assumed it was egregious.  

[dragit]

The only pictures and videos I've seen are innocuous.  I think this was a very bad call.

No indication it affected anything.  Unlike the headgear grab that was called in the Zahid-Hall match and the even worse one that wasn't called in Fix-Suriano.

[jt919]

So Um  whats the purpose of grabbing your opponents singlet  or why do they want to grab yours?   What are they trying to accomplish?

I have seen a lot of it in videos      does it make it easier to pick up an opponent and throw them or something?   

I saw  Jordan Burroughs  Grab  Chance Marstels   singlet  in the back and lift him up in one of the matches     and  him trying to grab at the  arm area on the sides a few times....

Is there some kind of purpose for this  blatent disregard for the rules??

[Le duke]

Is there a good video of this grab?  Didn’t seem like Zahid argued much so I assumed it was egregious.  

There were multiple screen grabs and GIFs posted in the Session II thread.

It was pretty bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Husker_Du]

i said on a podcast that i hated the call. that i thought it was inadvertent and meaningless. and that i hate seeing matches decided on technicalities w/ short time.

Brook's father watched it and text me that Aaron said Zahid had previously been warned in the match. 

which, to me, changes everything. 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

Not International rules, but NCAA. 

It was a home dual for ILLINOIS versus Michigan. Mike Poeta is a Freshman wrestling up a weight at 165 against Ryan Churella. Match is tied as regulation time expires. 

Poeta hits a double in sudden victory for the apparent win. Crowd goes crazy. Ref calls an equipment grab, claiming that the ILLINI pulled on Churella's knee pad. We screamed our displeasure. I've never been louder expressing my dissatisfaction (except when I saw my toddler boy start to cross our street without looking both ways). 

Poeta loses by an infraction point in SV. 

So, in the first interview I ever had with then-Associate Head Coach Poeta, I ask him about it. He basically said, "It was a good call. I grabbed the knee pad. It was inadvertent as my fingers got stuck, but I grabbed it." 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

I would say this about the ref in that match: Don't make a production of it.

That was how a WWE ref would make the call. Especially, don't be that demonstrative in making a huge call that benefits a hometown wrestler on his hometown mat late in an important match. On the other hand, singlet pulls are very hard to see, so I appreciate the fact that the ref let everybody know what happened. I would suggest, though, blowing the whistle, signaling the call (like a normal human being), then jogging over to the head official to explain what happened.

That way, it can be shared with the fans in attendance and the TV announcers. 

As for the ref getting run over by the action. It happens in Sumo at least once each tournament. The difference is that some of those Sumo refs are old enough to have taught the Five Point Exploding Heart Punch in Kill Bill: Volume Two. Also, the Dohyo in Sumo is almost twice as small as an Olympic-sized mat, and the ref knows everything is going out of bounds and usually at speed.

Shouldn't happen in Freestyle. Did the ref blow his whistle early out of self-preservation? Could Zahid have finished that takedown? 

[lu1979]

8 hours ago, jt919 said:

So Um  whats the purpose of grabbing your opponents singlet  or why do they want to grab yours?   What are they trying to accomplish?

I have seen a lot of it in videos      does it make it easier to pick up an opponent and throw them or something?   

I saw  Jordan Burroughs  Grab  Chance Marstels   singlet  in the back and lift him up in one of the matches     and  him trying to grab at the  arm area on the sides a few times....

Is there some kind of purpose for this  blatent disregard for the rules??

If you watch the Tsargush/JB match above the Russian is using the singlet grab as an integral part of his set up - he pulls and holds with his right hand as he drops and attacks the far side single leg.  He did that all the time and got away with it most of the time.  In his 2010 WC match against the Iranian (same one JB beats the next 2 years) Tsargush nearly pulls the guys singlet right over his head as he shoots and scores his 1st TD - it is so blatant it is hard to believe it wasn't called.

It is on Flo and I will try to post the link but it might be behind a paywall.

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/5003495-2010-wrestling-world-championships/videos?playing=5230651&search=tsargush

[Truzzcat]

7 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

i said on a podcast that i hated the call. that i thought it was inadvertent and meaningless. and that i hate seeing matches decided on technicalities w/ short time.

Brook's father watched it and text me that Aaron said Zahid had previously been warned in the match. 

which, to me, changes everything. 

That would explain why zahid kicked the brick back if they had previously been warned. 

[jt919]

3 hours ago, lu1979 said:

If you watch the Tsargush/JB match above the Russian is using the singlet grab as an integral part of his set up - he pulls and holds with his right hand as he drops and attacks the far side single leg.  He did that all the time and got away with it most of the time.  In his 2010 WC match against the Iranian (same one JB beats the next 2 years) Tsargush nearly pulls the guys singlet right over his head as he shoots and scores his 1st TD - it is so blatant it is hard to believe it wasn't called.

It is on Flo and I will try to post the link but it might be behind a paywall.

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/5003495-2010-wrestling-world-championships/videos?playing=5230651&search=tsargush

Yes      but  that still does not explain the purpose of   pulling / grabbing your opponents singlet....      I think if someone did that to me and the ref did not call it   I think my knee might accidentally  hit their walnuts a few times...