Are all the Pro-Palestine, anti Israel protests helping or hurting the Democrats?

[uncle bernard]

Just now, Hammerlock3 said:

their intent does

Then so does Israel's.

This is the problem you're gonna have. Neither party's official stance is genocidal. Both parties have had many individual members make genocidal statements and/or explicitly argue for genocide.

Neither party is a true theocracy. Both governments are heavily influenced by religious and ethnic tribalism.

So you can either relax your definition to the colloquial use of the terms or you need to admit they don't apply to either party. But you don't get to have it both ways.

 

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

lol no, man. keep flailing.

Sorry but you shouldn't be trying to cash out genocidal murders with appeals to tribal nonsense.

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

Then so does Israel's.

This is the problem you're gonna have. Neither party's official stance is genocidal. Both parties have had many individual members make genocidal statements and/or explicitly argue for genocide.

Neither party is a true theocracy. Both governments are heavily influenced by religious and ethnic tribalism.

So you can either relax your definition to the colloquial use of the terms or you need to admit they don't apply to either party. But you don't get to have it both ways.

 

No i do. If hamas put down its guns this would be over instantly, if israel did they would exterminated.

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

you are saying that someone other than muslims live in gaza? 

yes, gaza has a christian population. one of the oldest christian populations in the world and one of the world's oldest christian churches is in gaza city. Israel bombed it and killed several christians including relatives of a former us congressman.

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

No i do. If hamas put down its guns this would be over instantly, if israel did they would exterminated.

that's pure assertion. there is no reality where israel would be exterminated.

"if we didn't stop them, Israel would exterminate all of Gaza like many of its politicians and citizens want." see, I can play the same game.

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Sorry but you shouldn't be trying to cash out genocidal murders with appeals to tribal nonsense.

"appeals to tribal nonsense" what are you talking about???? what are these famous appeals I'm making?

You're the one who thinks one country doesn't have to follow the same rules because they're not muslim.

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

"appeals to tribal nonsense" what are you talking about???? what are these famous appeals I'm making?

You're the one who thinks one country doesn't have to follow the same rules because they're not muslim.

you did it again in the same post!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you obviously have no idea what you are talking about because israel is playing by a completely different and more constrained set of rules than hamas.

[Hammerlock3]

6 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

that's pure assertion. there is no reality where israel would be exterminated.

"if we didn't stop them, Israel would exterminate all of Gaza like many of its politicians and citizens want." see, I can play the same game.

except I'm telling the truth and you're not.

[uncle bernard]

Just now, Hammerlock3 said:

you did it again in the same post!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you obviously have no idea what you are talking about because israel is playing by a completely different and more constrained set of rules than hamas.

be specific. explain it to me.

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

you did it again in the same post!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you obviously have no idea what you are talking about because israel is playing by a completely different and more constrained set of rules than hamas.

I think both sides should be prosecuted for knowingly killing civilians in pursuit of military targets. That's a consistent position. You're the one who only wants to apply it to one side.

[mspart]

Did Hamas warn Israel they were about to attack and to leave the area?    NO

Did Hamas target military targets or civilian targets specifically?   Civilian

Did Hamas allow aid to come to help the poor Israelis suffering?     NO

Did Hamas rape and torture Israeli civilians?   YES

Did Hamas take prisoners and allow them to die?   YES

I could keep going, but the fact of the matter is Israel has waged a very careful war against Hamas.   Hamas was brute force terror.   There is a very big difference in the way the two sides have engaged. 

mspart

[Husker_Du]

38 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

that's pure assertion. there is no reality where israel would be exterminated.

"if we didn't stop them, Israel would exterminate all of Gaza like many of its politicians and citizens want." see, I can play the same game.

yeah, if you ignore history and reality which is

1) the jews are the most persecuted people in the history of mankind

2) israel has been faced fighting to maintain its existence since it was formed

3) Palestine broke the cease fire

4) the unbroken streak of palestinians as terrorists for the last 60 years (yes, yes, i know...'not all palestinians' so spare me.)

[Hammerlock3]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

I think both sides should be prosecuted for knowingly killing civilians in pursuit of military targets. That's a consistent position. You're the one who only wants to apply it to one side.

ONE SIDE SPECIFICALLY TARGETS CIVILIANS. THAT SIDE IS ALSO THE ONE CAUSING ALL OF THEIR OWN CIVILIANS CASUALTIES.

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

that's pure assertion. there is no reality where israel would be exterminated.

"if we didn't stop them, Israel would exterminate all of Gaza like many of its politicians and citizens want." see, I can play the same game.

If it wasn’t for the US Israel would already be gone. 

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

ONE SIDE SPECIFICALLY TARGETS CIVILIANS. THAT SIDE IS ALSO THE ONE CAUSING ALL OF THEIR OWN CIVILIANS CASUALTIES.

two sides knowingly kill civilians. the human shields argument is a moral embarrassment. you might realize that if you end up as a human shield one day. 

[uncle bernard]

50 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

If it wasn’t for the US Israel would already be gone. 

yeah but there’s no scenario where the us wouldn’t support israel and defend it against destruction. it’s a nonsensical scenario. 

the question is how the us can help them secure a sustainable peace. you guys think endless war which hasn’t worked for 75 years. i think there’s another way. 

[Husker_Du]

6 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

yeah but there’s no scenario where the us wouldn’t support israel and defend it against destruction.

thanks for finally admitting what we all already know.

the muslim world wants to eviscerate Israel and the only thing stopping them is the US.

if you would have said that on page 1, you could have saved us 35 pages and hours of banging our heads against the wall.

[uncle bernard]

2 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

yeah, if you ignore history and reality which is

1) the jews are the most persecuted people in the history of mankind

2) israel has been faced fighting to maintain its existence since it was formed

3) Palestine broke the cease fire

4) the unbroken streak of palestinians as terrorists for the last 60 years (yes, yes, i know...'not all palestinians' so spare me.)

1) yes

2) yes

3) yes. demonstrates the unsustainability of the occupation. 

4) yes. you should do some research on some of the israeli terror groups btw. they literally assassinated one of their prime ministers because he engaged in peace talks. their current minister of national security is a convicted terrorist. the idf aids settler militias who terrorize and ethnically cleanse villages in the west bank. they are almost never held accountable. it’s a dangerous and counterproductive double standard.

as long as we keep pretending this is a one sided conflict there will never be a chance of peace outside of “letting someone win” as you first suggested which would be a moral and humanitarian disaster. 

[JimmyBT]

14 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

yeah but there’s no scenario where the us wouldn’t support israel and defend it against destruction. it’s a nonsensical scenario. 

the question is how the us can help them secure a sustainable peace. you guys think endless war which hasn’t worked for 75 years. i think there’s another way. 

You may want to tell Hamas and its supporters that. Oh and good luck with that.  They don’t want peace. Never have never will and you can’t force it upon them. 

Edited May 10 by JimmyBT

[JimmyBT]

8 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

1) yes

2) yes

3) yes. demonstrates the unsustainability of the occupation. 

4) yes. you should do some research on some of the israeli terror groups btw. they literally assassinated one of their prime ministers because he engaged in peace talks. their current minister of national security is a convicted terrorist. the idf aids settler militias who terrorize and ethnically cleanse villages in the west bank. they are almost never held accountable. it’s a dangerous and counterproductive double standard.

as long as we keep pretending this is a one sided conflict there will never be a chance of peace outside of “letting someone win” as you first suggested which would be a moral and humanitarian disaster. 

This is far more an Arab/muslim sided conflict than the other way around as you claim.  From day 1 the Jewish people have had to defend themselves.  

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Husker_Du said:

thanks for finally admitting what we all already know.

the muslim world wants to eviscerate Israel and the only thing stopping them is the US.

if you would have said that on page 1, you could have saved us 35 pages and hours of banging our heads against the wall.

sure, but that doesn’t mean they have to treat the palestinians the way they do. even while treating them poorly, they were able to make significant diplomatic gains with much of the region prior to this conflict. imagine if they engaged in a fair political peace process. 

the reality is israel will always have western support (and a nuke for insurance). they are not under serious threat of annihilation and solving the palestinian problem in a morally serious manner would make them even safer. that’s been my whole argument. 

the problem is that israel has made a far right, nationalist turn in the last couple decades. extremist forces who were once shunned from government, now sit in the knesset or hold important posts (see their terrorist nat security minister). they continue to push israel to take more and more land. they want it all. they tell us this very plainly. many of them don’t just want to expel palestinians. they want to expel arab israeli civilians too. 

[JimmyBT]

18 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

yeah but there’s no scenario where the us wouldn’t support israel and defend it against destruction. it’s a nonsensical scenario. 

the question is how the us can help them secure a sustainable peace. you guys think endless war which hasn’t worked for 75 years. i think there’s another way. 

Your way is to consolidate Israel-into a population that would easily overtake/overturn every right that they currently have.  Your way only harms the Jews.  

[Scouts Honor]

4 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

yes, gaza has a christian population. one of the oldest christian populations in the world and one of the world's oldest christian churches is in gaza city. Israel bombed it and killed several christians including relatives of a former us congressman.

so they also lived in that open air prison... but didn't revolt? 

[Scouts Honor]

33 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

yeah but there’s no scenario where the us wouldn’t support israel and defend it against destruction. it’s a nonsensical scenario. 

the question is how the us can help them secure a sustainable peace. you guys think endless war which hasn’t worked for 75 years. i think there’s another way. 

the other way would be for Hamas and the palestinians to stop breaking cease fires

[Scouts Honor]