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Are all the Pro-Palestine, anti Israel protests helping or hurting the Democrats?


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1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

yeah but there’s no scenario where the us wouldn’t support israel and defend it against destruction. it’s a nonsensical scenario. 

the question is how the us can help them secure a sustainable peace. you guys think endless war which hasn’t worked for 75 years. i think there’s another way. 

Kudos to you for taking on all posters.  Here is the big piece of the puzzle you and this board are not addressing.  This is a Chess match between the US/Israel vs Iran.  Palestine is a pawn on the board.  Despite some grandstanding you might see from these nations the truth is the Saudi's, Jordan, & Egypt are also siding with the US & Israel.  Palestine's peace will only come with it's divorce from Iran.  Look into Jordan and Egypt's refusal to take in any Palestinian refugees.  There's a real fear militants would set up shop in their countries launching attacks on Israel from within their own countries causing more chaos.  If Israel capitulates Iran will now know that it's blueprint to set up proxies and cause chaos is the recipe for success   

Edited by PortaJohn
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I Don't Agree With What I Posted

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35 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Kudos to you for taking on all posters.  Here is the big piece of the puzzle you and this board are not addressing.  This is a Chess match between the US/Israel vs Iran.  Palestine is a pawn on the board.  Despite some grandstanding you might see from these nations the truth is the Saudi's, Jordan, & Egypt are also siding with the US & Israel.  Palestine's peace will only come with it's divorce from Iran.  Look into Jordan and Egypt's refusal to take in any Palestinian refugees.  There's a real fear militants would set up shop in their countries launching attacks on Israel from within their own countries causing more chaos.  If Israel capitulates Iran will now know that it's blueprint to set up proxies and cause chaos is the recipe for success   

Actually Uncle Bernie has covered this already. 

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24 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Actually Uncle Bernie has covered this already. 

Dove in deeper into this thread.  By chance do you remember whereabout Iran was discussed?  

I Don't Agree With What I Posted

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2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

two sides knowingly kill civilians. the human shields argument is a moral embarrassment. you might realize that if you end up as a human shield one day. 

if I do I'll be more pissed at the guy using me as shield than the guy who doesn't want to get shot by him.

How do you fight someone who is willling to use a human shield and not risk killing it?

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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22 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Dove in deeper into this thread.  By chance do you remember whereabout Iran was discussed?  

I was referring to his view that countries (Syria, Lebanon) are refusing to take refugees for fear that Hamas would start working with in those camps and would be come targets for Israeli air strikes.  Different from your take. My bad. 

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2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

they don't want just gaza.. or even just Isreal.

 

this has been their mantra forever. 

i don't understand what's not to understand.  they've been open about it. 

Europe is fu%$ed by the way. 

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TBD

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29 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

I was referring to his view that countries (Syria, Lebanon) are refusing to take refugees for fear that Hamas would start working with in those camps and would be come targets for Israeli air strikes.  Different from your take. My bad. 

I read his comment. I think myself and Uncle B are pretty much on the same page on that issue.  But Iran not being discussed in this conversation is a real failure in understanding the current situation.  The latest figures reported (estimated) was $300 million from Iran to Hamas.  The idea that peace would come if Israel just packed up and left is nonsensical.  Iran is hellbent on creating as much chaos and conflict in the region.  Currently the Ayatollah is the root of the problem

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13 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

the other way would be for Hamas and the palestinians to stop breaking cease fires

why would they do that? It could lead to a slippery slope where the whole area degenerates into a secular state with religious freedom.

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"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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12 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

wrong. why do you ask?

Cause I'm trying to retrieve my mind from our recently useless argumentative discourse and get back to trying to distill the idea that we don't agree on. I didn't think you'd say yes to that statement but seemed like a good box to check.

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"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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48 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Cause I'm trying to retrieve my mind from our recently useless argumentative discourse and get back to trying to distill the idea that we don't agree on. I didn't think you'd say yes to that statement but seemed like a good box to check.

it's a waste of time for you to be arguing with a version of me you made up in your head. never said anything like that before.

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1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

wrong. why do you ask?

And more specifically, I asked because you're argument seems to be based on a moral equivalence that I don't see, so I was curious if that was the result of a more general idea.

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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6 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

 

"not including more than 10,000 reported missing or under the rubble"

even these numbers have the majority of deaths as women/children. extrapolate that percentage out to account for the estimated dead, the number holds.

charts are hard for some people apparently.

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1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

it's a waste of time for you to be arguing with a version of me you made up in your head. never said anything like that before.

🙄i didn't imply you did, and in my response I said i didn't think you would say you did.....

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

And more specifically, I asked because you're argument seems to be based on a moral equivalence that I don't see, so I was curious if that was the result of a more general idea.

i've explicitly said there isn't a moral equivalence. hamas being evil doesn't mean israel gets to be evil too, even if it's "less" evil.

two wrongs don't make a right. you know, the lesson we teach toddlers.

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2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

i've explicitly said there isn't a moral equivalence. hamas being evil doesn't mean israel gets to be evil too, even if it's "less" evil.

two wrongs don't make a right. you know, the lesson we teach toddlers.

But I assume you don't consider yourself a pacifist?

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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Just now, Hammerlock3 said:

But I assume you don't consider yourself a pacifist?

no, as i've said over and over, hamas is a legit target. the civilians they're hiding behind are not. that is inconvenient, but convenience doesn't excuse war crimes.

 

the current method of the Israeli government is dangerous and misguided, motivated more by a desire to control more land than to secure long term peace.

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Isn't it a war crime to hide behind civilians?    Yes that is inconvenient but it does not excuse war crimes.   Would you rather Israel stop warning civilians that they are about to hit a certain place and they should evacuate?    Would you rather Israel stop allowing food aid to get to the civilians?    They could do those things but I somehow think you would cry all the louder.

mspart

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