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Are all the Pro-Palestine, anti Israel protests helping or hurting the Democrats?


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4 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

judaism is a cultural identity as much as a religious one. secular jews consider themselves just as “jewish” as religious jews. 

it is a little strange that this is your hang up with a podcast about the history of of a state whose entire existence is predicated on judaism being a race. that is the explicit claim *of israel.*

the funny thing is that those podcasters would probably agree it’s not a race and that’s fundamental to their criticism of israel. 

In 1948 the day after the Jewish people (as a religion or race) were officially forced to where they are now five Arab countries declared war on them.   Tell me why? 

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4 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

judaism is a cultural identity as much as a religious one. secular jews consider themselves just as “jewish” as religious jews. 

it is a little strange that this is your hang up with a podcast about the history of of a state whose entire existence is predicated on judaism being a race. that is the explicit claim *of israel.*

the funny thing is that those podcasters would probably agree it’s not a race and that’s fundamental to their criticism of israel. 

paragraph by paragraph:

Just because people say it doesn't mean it makes sense. I don't group people in this context unless they share ideas, cause that's racism.

I doubt you can reference a profound influence in the jewish community in the last 70 years who defined Judaism as a race to the exclusion of its status as a religion, but even if you could I wouldn't care because that person would be racist.  

They would, because it sounds racist, but their arguments would fall apart rapidly.

 

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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13 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

paragraph by paragraph:

Just because people say it doesn't mean it makes sense. I don't group people in this context unless they share ideas, cause that's racism.

I doubt you can reference a profound influence in the jewish community in the last 70 years who defined Judaism as a race to the exclusion of its status as a religion, but even if you could I wouldn't care because that person would be racist.  

They would, because it sounds racist, but their arguments would fall apart rapidly.

 

It's actually incredibly racist to deny Jewish identity. Hitler didn't care if they were religious or secular Jews. Religious and secular Jews were subject to the same oppression for thousands of years.

I think it's strange to cry wolf on racism when what you're trying to do is exclude all Jews that don't subscribe to a particular idea of Jewishness that *you* believe in. I'm guessing it's probably because you haven't spent much time with Jews.

And you've yet to explain how any of their "arguments" would fall apart on that basis. They're not even making arguments for the most part. It's a survey of the history of Israel beginning with the emergence of Zionism in 19th century Europe. Explaining the historical trajectory of that movement and the differences of opinion within the Jewish community isn't an argument. It's history. Antizionism isn't based on Jews being a race. If anything, it's a response to that assertion because Israel is founded as Jewish ethnostate. One of my best friends in college, who is Jewish, could move to Israel tomorrow and be a full citizen if he wanted because his parents are Jewish even though he's not a practicing Jew.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/03/16/a-closer-look-at-jewish-identity-in-israel-and-the-u-s/

"Both groups also were asked about what being Jewish means to them in a different way, with an open-ended question that allowed them to give any answer. The vast majority of Israeli Jews cited connections with Jewish history, culture and community."

"Solid majorities in both countries say a person can be Jewish even if he or she works on the Sabbath, does not believe in God or is strongly critical of Israel."

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2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

It's actually incredibly racist to deny Jewish identity. Hitler didn't care if they were religious or secular Jews. Religious and secular Jews were subject to the same oppression for thousands of years.

I think it's strange to cry wolf on racism when what you're trying to do is exclude all Jews that don't subscribe to a particular idea of Jewishness that *you* believe in. I'm guessing it's probably because you haven't spent much time with Jews.

And you've yet to explain how any of their "arguments" would fall apart on that basis. They're not even making arguments for the most part. It's a survey of the history of Israel beginning with the emergence of Zionism in 19th century Europe. Explaining the historical trajectory of that movement and the differences of opinion within the Jewish community isn't an argument. It's history. Antizionism isn't based on Jews being a race. If anything, it's a response to that assertion because Israel is founded as Jewish ethnostate. One of my best friends in college, who is Jewish, could move to Israel tomorrow and be a full citizen if he wanted because his parents are Jewish even though he's not a practicing Jew.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/03/16/a-closer-look-at-jewish-identity-in-israel-and-the-u-s/

"Both groups also were asked about what being Jewish means to them in a different way, with an open-ended question that allowed them to give any answer. The vast majority of Israeli Jews cited connections with Jewish history, culture and community."

"Solid majorities in both countries say a person can be Jewish even if he or she works on the Sabbath, does not believe in God or is strongly critical of Israel."

this is where you should be saying something like, "I don't agree with that perspective but I at least understand it," but you're playing word games instead.  

By the way I am jewish. I just decided five minutes ago.

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"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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18 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

this is where you should be saying something like, "I don't agree with that perspective but I at least understand it," but you're playing word games instead.  

By the way I am jewish. I just decided five minutes ago.

It's not a word game to point out how Jewish identity is conceived by Jewish people. You're the one playing word games to craft an idea of Jewish identity that nobody, especially Jews, uses.

And you still haven't said how this has any impact on the arguments of the podcast. If you do, we can actually speak about the substance for once.

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2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

It's not a word game to point out how Jewish identity is conceived by Jewish people. You're the one playing word games to craft an idea of Jewish identity that nobody, especially Jews, uses.

And you still haven't said how this has any impact on the arguments of the podcast. If you do, we can actually speak about the substance for once.

i've said it twice, surveying a community that I don't consider a community unless you apply a  frivolous racial overlay is emphasizing the importance of race in a counterproductive fashion.

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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21 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i've said it twice, surveying a community that I don't consider a community unless you apply a  frivolous racial overlay is emphasizing the importance of race in a counterproductive fashion.

so how does that impact the arguments of anti-zionism?

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2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

so how does that impact the arguments of anti-zionism?

because it couches them in an apocryphal framework. The legitimacy of the anti-zionist movement doesn't stem from its racial cohesion.

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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Sam Harris, who if you're not familiar with I'd recommend listening to enough to at least know what he's about because i consider him to be an independent thinker, talks to an expert on urban warfare who has spent extensive time in Gaza.

"Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."

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On 5/7/2024 at 8:10 AM, uncle bernard said:

for those who still are confused about the specific demands of the student protests 

have you ever considered these whack jobs can shove their 'demands' up their asses?

since when is the standard operating procedure to buy a product and then protest outside company headquarters telling them to change their business practices?

did these protesters research the university prior to applying? do they understand they made a voluntary choice?

and did they do so before or after Palestine broke the ceasefire? 

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TBD

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