fishbane Posted April 3 Posted April 3 1 hour ago, lu_alum said: Although Wade Schallrs’ time at East Stroudsburg cost him a postseason at Clarion, I don’t believe he ever actually wrestled a match for East Stroudsburg. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk This is also kind of true for the VT transfers. Never wrestled in a VT singlet and didn't use eligibility at VT, but lost eligibility at Iowa. I think the criteria WKN used was if the transfer cost any eligibility at all they didn't make the squint list. In the future there might possibly be an exception named Mitchell Mesenbrink. He did a redshirt year at Cal Baptist and then transferred to PSU. He has 4 years to use at PSU, but he actually wrestled in a couple duals for Cal Baptist last year. The change to the freshman redshirt rules allowed for it. If he goes on to win a title will WKN put him in the squint list?
lu_alum Posted April 3 Posted April 3 22 minutes ago, fishbane said: This is also kind of true for the VT transfers. Never wrestled in a VT singlet and didn't use eligibility at VT, but lost eligibility at Iowa. I think the criteria WKN used was if the transfer cost any eligibility at all they didn't make the squint list. In the future there might possibly be an exception named Mitchell Mesenbrink. He did a redshirt year at Cal Baptist and then transferred to PSU. He has 4 years to use at PSU, but he actually wrestled in a couple duals for Cal Baptist last year. The change to the freshman redshirt rules allowed for it. If he goes on to win a title will WKN put him in the squint list? Do you mean the VT xfers that went to Iowa? The competed at VaTech during their RS season. Here are their Southern Scuffle results: 2005 Southern Scuffle Results 133 lbs. Round of 64 Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) def. Amond Prater (Missouri) 10-2 Round of 32 Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) def. Chris Jenkins (E. Michigan) 23-7 Round of 16 Mack Reiter (Minnesota) def. Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) Pin (4:03) Wrestleback 3rd Will Powars (George Mason) def. Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) 3-1 141 lbs. Round of 64 Dan Leclere (Virginia Tech) def. Peter Ferrara (Virginia) 7-2 Round of 32 Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) def. Matt Easter (Cornell) 4-2 Round of 16 Cory Cooperman (Lehigh) def. Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) Pin (2:17) Wrestleback 3rd Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) def. Marcus Cox (Appalachian St.) 10-9 Wrestleback 4th Rick McLaughlin (Edinboro) def. Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) 5-3 149 lbs. Round of 32 Brent Metcalf (Virginia Tech) def. Andrew Schlaffer (Maryland) 8-7 Round of 16 Keith Dickey (Cornell) def. Brent Metcalf (Virginia Tech) DQ Wrestleback 3rd Drew DiPasquale (Virginia) def. Brent Metcalf (Virginia Tech) FORFEIT 174 lbs. Round of 32 Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Scott Fisher (UNCG) 14-0 Round of 16 Travis Frick (Lehigh) def. Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) 7-4 Wrestleback 3rd Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Jesse Feinsod (Navy) PIN (1:47) Wrestleback 4th Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. T.J. Sayers (Chattanooga) 14-4 Wrestleback 5th Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Doug Umbehauer (Rider) 8-7 Wrestleback 6th Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Aaron Miller (Kent State) 6-5 Wrestleback 7th Travis Frick (Lehigh) def. Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) 11-6 Fifth Place Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Neal Martin (Appalachian State) 4-0
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Author Posted April 3 1 hour ago, fishbane said: This is also kind of true for the VT transfers. Never wrestled in a VT singlet and didn't use eligibility at VT, but lost eligibility at Iowa. I think the criteria WKN used was if the transfer cost any eligibility at all they didn't make the squint list. In the future there might possibly be an exception named Mitchell Mesenbrink. He did a redshirt year at Cal Baptist and then transferred to PSU. He has 4 years to use at PSU, but he actually wrestled in a couple duals for Cal Baptist last year. The change to the freshman redshirt rules allowed for it. If he goes on to win a title will WKN put him in the squint list? Good point. This stuff is messy. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
fishbane Posted April 3 Posted April 3 10 hours ago, lu_alum said: Do you mean the VT xfers that went to Iowa? The competed at VaTech during their RS season. Here are their Southern Scuffle results: 2005 Southern Scuffle Results 133 lbs. Round of 64 Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) def. Amond Prater (Missouri) 10-2 Round of 32 Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) def. Chris Jenkins (E. Michigan) 23-7 Round of 16 Mack Reiter (Minnesota) def. Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) Pin (4:03) Wrestleback 3rd Will Powars (George Mason) def. Joey Slaton (Virginia Tech) 3-1 141 lbs. Round of 64 Dan Leclere (Virginia Tech) def. Peter Ferrara (Virginia) 7-2 Round of 32 Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) def. Matt Easter (Cornell) 4-2 Round of 16 Cory Cooperman (Lehigh) def. Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) Pin (2:17) Wrestleback 3rd Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) def. Marcus Cox (Appalachian St.) 10-9 Wrestleback 4th Rick McLaughlin (Edinboro) def. Dan LeClere (Virginia Tech) 5-3 149 lbs. Round of 32 Brent Metcalf (Virginia Tech) def. Andrew Schlaffer (Maryland) 8-7 Round of 16 Keith Dickey (Cornell) def. Brent Metcalf (Virginia Tech) DQ Wrestleback 3rd Drew DiPasquale (Virginia) def. Brent Metcalf (Virginia Tech) FORFEIT 174 lbs. Round of 32 Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Scott Fisher (UNCG) 14-0 Round of 16 Travis Frick (Lehigh) def. Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) 7-4 Wrestleback 3rd Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Jesse Feinsod (Navy) PIN (1:47) Wrestleback 4th Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. T.J. Sayers (Chattanooga) 14-4 Wrestleback 5th Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Doug Umbehauer (Rider) 8-7 Wrestleback 6th Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Aaron Miller (Kent State) 6-5 Wrestleback 7th Travis Frick (Lehigh) def. Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) 11-6 Fifth Place Jay Borschel (Virginia Tech) def. Neal Martin (Appalachian State) 4-0 Yes those were the transfers I was talking about. All those matches were in their redshirt year and would have been unattached. These are similar to the matches Pucillo wrestled in redshirt. The VT wrestlers didn't use eligibility that year at VT it was the next year at Iowa where eligibility was used. Similar to Pucillo at Hofstra. What's different with Mesenbrink is that he wrestled in two dual at Cal Baptist. True freshman can now wrestle in 5 events attached. So those duals count on his official record even though he didn't use any eligibility in wrestling them. Nor at least that's my understanding of the situation. 1
fishbane Posted April 3 Posted April 3 19 hours ago, 11986 said: I tried to find info on that yesterday, I have vague recall that he was a transfer but can't find anything to verify. 19 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Probably. He was class of 91 in HS per Indianamat and MSU lists him as 93-95 on their roster. If you watch his NCAA finals match (Link) midway through the second period at about 6:40 in the video the broadcast team says he was a junior college champion at Lassen Community College in CA. Not sure if he is subject to the same exception at MSU as Williams was at Iowa... 2
jross Posted April 3 Posted April 3 (edited) You covered most of these Year Weight Place Name College Distinct Count of College AA Count Sum of Place Best Place Worst Place Distinct Count of Weight Last AA Year First AA Year 1999 133 7 Aaron Holker Brigham Young 2 3 15 1 7 2 2003 1999 2002 141 1 Aaron Holker Iowa State 2 3 15 1 7 2 2003 1999 2003 141 7 Aaron Holker Iowa State 2 3 15 1 7 2 2003 1999 2009 165 2 Andrew Howe Wisconsin 2 4 8 1 3 2 2014 2009 2010 165 1 Andrew Howe Wisconsin 2 4 8 1 3 2 2014 2009 2011 165 3 Andrew Howe Wisconsin 2 4 8 1 3 2 2014 2009 2014 174 2 Andrew Howe Oklahoma 2 4 8 1 3 2 2014 2009 2008 149 2 Bubba Jenkins Penn State 2 2 3 1 2 2 2011 2008 2011 157 1 Bubba Jenkins Arizona State 2 2 3 1 2 2 2011 2008 1993 134 2 Cary Kolat Penn State 2 4 7 1 3 2 1997 1993 1994 134 3 Cary Kolat Penn State 2 4 7 1 3 2 1997 1993 1996 134 1 Cary Kolat Lock Haven 2 4 7 1 3 2 1997 1993 1997 142 1 Cary Kolat Lock Haven 2 4 7 1 3 2 1997 1993 1981 134 6 Clar Anderson Auburn 2 3 12 1 6 1 1984 1981 1983 134 1 Clar Anderson Oklahoma State 2 3 12 1 6 1 1984 1981 1984 134 5 Clar Anderson Oklahoma State 2 3 12 1 6 1 1984 1981 1986 167 5 Dave Lee Stanford 2 3 12 1 6 1 1989 1986 1988 167 6 Dave Lee Wisconsin 2 3 12 1 6 1 1989 1986 1989 167 1 Dave Lee Wisconsin 2 3 12 1 6 1 1989 1986 1978 150 3 Dave Schultz Oklahoma State 2 3 6 1 3 3 1982 1978 1981 158 2 Dave Schultz Oklahoma 2 3 6 1 3 3 1982 1978 1982 167 1 Dave Schultz Oklahoma 2 3 6 1 3 3 1982 1978 2014 149 1 Jason Tsirtsis Northwestern 2 3 11 1 7 1 2018 2014 2015 149 3 Jason Tsirtsis Northwestern 2 3 11 1 7 1 2018 2014 2018 149 7 Jason Tsirtsis Arizona State 2 3 11 1 7 1 2018 2014 1972 167 6 Jim Woods Washington 2 2 7 1 6 2 1974 1972 1974 UNL 1 Jim Woods Western Illinois 2 2 7 1 6 2 1974 1972 1986 190 4 Mark Coleman Miami Ohio 2 2 5 1 4 1 1988 1986 1988 190 1 Mark Coleman Ohio State 2 2 5 1 4 1 1988 1986 2012 285 8 Nick Gwiazdowski SUNY-Binghampton 2 3 10 1 8 1 2015 2012 2014 285 1 Nick Gwiazdowski North Carolina State 2 3 10 1 8 1 2015 2012 2015 285 1 Nick Gwiazdowski North Carolina State 2 3 10 1 8 1 2015 2012 2007 125 1 Paul Donahoe Nebraska 2 3 6 1 3 1 2009 2007 2008 125 3 Paul Donahoe Nebraska 2 3 6 1 3 1 2009 2007 2009 125 2 Paul Donahoe Edinboro 2 3 6 1 3 1 2009 2007 1991 118 5 Sam Henson Missouri 2 3 7 1 5 1 1994 1991 1993 118 1 Sam Henson Clemson 2 3 7 1 5 1 1994 1991 1994 118 1 Sam Henson Clemson 2 3 7 1 5 1 1994 1991 2002 285 2 Steve Mocco Iowa 2 4 6 1 2 1 2006 2002 2003 285 1 Steve Mocco Iowa 2 4 6 1 2 1 2006 2002 2005 285 1 Steve Mocco Oklahoma State 2 4 6 1 2 1 2006 2002 2006 285 2 Steve Mocco Oklahoma State 2 4 6 1 2 1 2006 2002 1991 126 3 Tony Purler Oklahoma State 2 2 4 1 3 1 1993 1991 1993 126 1 Tony Purler Nebraska 2 2 4 1 3 1 1993 1991 Edited April 3 by jross
jross Posted April 3 Posted April 3 In what year and weight did two different wrestlers with the same name place first and fourth in the same weight?
Gus Posted April 3 Posted April 3 How big of a deal was it when Dave Schultz transferred from Oklahoma State to Oklahoma back in the day?
Jason Bryant Posted April 3 Posted April 3 How big of a deal was it when Dave Schultz transferred from Oklahoma State to Oklahoma back in the day? He transferred to UCLA first, then they dropped the program and he and Mark headed to OU. 2 1 Insert catchy tagline here.
Gus Posted April 3 Posted April 3 14 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said: He transferred to UCLA first, then they dropped the program and he and Mark headed to OU. Was there a particular circumstance that led to him leaving OKSt?
Jason Bryant Posted April 3 Posted April 3 Was there a particular circumstance that led to him leaving OKSt?I’m unsure. Before I was born. Insert catchy tagline here.
11986 Posted April 3 Posted April 3 26 minutes ago, Gus said: Was there a particular circumstance that led to him leaving OKSt? guessing - to wrestle with his brother
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Author Posted April 3 2 hours ago, jross said: In what year and weight did two different wrestlers with the same name place first and fourth in the same weight? Oooh, I knew this once. And @Fadzaev2 knows one of the guys. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Author Posted April 3 2 hours ago, jross said: In what year and weight did two different wrestlers with the same name place first and fourth in the same weight? 1976, 142 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
11986 Posted April 3 Posted April 3 3 hours ago, Gus said: Was there a particular circumstance that led to him leaving OKSt? 3 hours ago, 11986 said: guessing - to wrestle with his brother Brothers And Brawlers - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com 'Dave spent one unhappy year at Oklahoma State, where he tried to cut too much weight, then transferred to UCLA to be with incoming freshman Mark and Horpel, then an assistant coach there.' 1
1032004 Posted April 4 Posted April 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: 1976, 142 Brad Smith for anyone who doesn’t want to google (edited due to accidentally reading the search result wrong initially) Edited April 4 by 1032004
lu_alum Posted April 4 Posted April 4 6 hours ago, 11986 said: Brothers And Brawlers - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com 'Dave spent one unhappy year at Oklahoma State, where he tried to cut too much weight, then transferred to UCLA to be with incoming freshman Mark and Horpel, then an assistant coach there.' shocking
gimpeltf Posted April 4 Posted April 4 A couple things. 1. As to the Brands VTechers- they did use eligibility. Redshirting is part of their eligibility. 2. Maybe someone posted this (I don't feel like searching the lists now) but Rob Rohn Lehigh- transferred from Clarion.
cowcards Posted April 4 Posted April 4 (edited) Listed is each title won after transferring (the 2nd column of colleges is where they transferred from): 1985 Arizona State Eddie Urbano 150 Arizona State/Pima 1989 Wisconsin Dave Lee 167 Stanford 2013 Illinois Jesse Delgado 125 Cal Poly 2014 Illinois Jesse Delgado 125 Cal Poly 1980 California-Bakersfield John Azevedo 126 Oklahoma State 2001 Illinois Adam Tirapelle 149 Stanford 1981 California-Bakersfield Dan Cuestas 126 Cal-Poly 1982 California-Bakersfield Dan Cuestas 126 Cal-Poly 1983 California-Bakersfield Adam Cuestas 118 Oregon 1980 California-Bakersfield Joe Gonzales 118 East Los Angeles/Oklahoma 1982 Oklahoma Dave Schultz 167 Oklahoma State/UCLA 1981 Oklahoma Mark Schultz 167 UCLA 1982 Oklahoma Mark Schultz 177 UCLA 1983 Oklahoma Mark Schultz 177 UCLA 1968 Adams State Dominic 'Nick' Carollo 191 El Camino 1962 Army Clifford 'Mike' Natvig Jr. 147 Iowa 1963 Army Clifford 'Mike' Natvig Jr. 147 Iowa 1963 Northern Iowa Bill Dotson 137 Upper Iowa 1997 Iowa Mark Ironside 134 Kirkwood 1998 Iowa Mark Ironside 134 Kirkwood 2010 Iowa Jay Borschel 174 Virginia Tech 1946 Northern Iowa Cecil Mott 121 Mason City [jc] 1967 Michigan State Dale Anderson 137 Iowa State 1968 Michigan State Dale Anderson 137 Iowa State 1999 Iowa Tim 'TJ Williams 149 Lassen 2001 Iowa Tim 'TJ Williams 157 Lassen 2000 Northern Iowa Tony Davis 149 Iowa Central 1964 Oklahoma State Yojiro Uetake 130 Waseda 1965 Oklahoma State Yojiro Uetake 130 Waseda 1966 Oklahoma State Yojiro Uetake 130 Waseda 2008 Iowa Brent Metcalf 149 Virginia Tech 2010 Iowa Brent Metcalf 149 Virginia Tech 1972 Iowa State Chris Taylor UNL Muskegon 1973 Iowa State Chris Taylor UNL Muskegon 2022 Penn State Max Dean 197 Cornell 2018 South Dakota State Seth Gross 133 Iowa 1991 Minnesota Marty Morgan 177 North Dakota State 2024 Penn State Daniel 'Greg' Kerkvliet 285 Ohio State 1993 Clemson Sammie Henson 118 Missouri 1994 Clemson Sammie Henson 118 Missouri 1993 Nebraska Tony Purler 126 Oklahoma State 2022 Michigan Nick Suriano 125 Penn State/Rutgers 2019 Rutgers Nick Suriano 133 Penn State 2005 Oklahoma State Steve Mocco 285 Iowa 1981 College of New Jersey Tom Martucci 190 Louisiana State 1980 Clemson Noel Loban 190 Farmingdale State 2014 North Carolina State Nick Gwiazdowski 285 Binghamton 2015 North Carolina State Nick Gwiazdowski 285 Binghamton 1983 Oklahoma State Clar Anderson 134 Auburn 1988 Ohio State Mark Coleman 190 Miami (OH) 1993 Ohio State Rex Holman 190 Arizona State 2008 Ohio State Mike Pucillo 184 Hofstra 1940 Oklahoma Harold Byrd 128 Oklahoma State 1951 Oklahoma Phil Smith 157 Auburn 1929 Oklahoma State Conrad Caldwell 165 Northeastern Oklahoma A&M 1930 Oklahoma State Conrad Caldwell 175 Northeastern Oklahoma A&M 1931 Oklahoma State Conrad Caldwell 175 Northeastern Oklahoma A&M 1993 North Carolina TJ Jaworsky 134 Oklahoma State 1994 North Carolina TJ Jaworsky 134 Oklahoma State 1995 North Carolina TJ Jaworsky 134 Oklahoma State 1933 Southwestern Oklahoma Ralph Teague UNL Oklahoma State 1934 Southwestern Oklahoma Ralph Teague UNL Oklahoma State 1948 Oklahoma State John St. Clair 160 Oklahoma Baptist 1995 Oklahoma State JJ McGrew 190 Notre Dame (IN) 1963 Lehigh Kirk Pendleton 157 ? 1971 Slippery Rock Stan Dziedzic 150 Indiana State 1991 California-Bakersfield Paul Keysaw 190 Bloomsburg 1963 Minnesota-Moorhead Arthur 'Bucky' Maughan 115 Indiana 2009 Edinboro Jarrod King 165 Oklahoma 1972 Clarion Wade Schalles 150 East Stroudsburg 1973 Clarion Wade Schalles 158 East Stroudsburg 1996 Lock Haven Cary Kolat 134 Penn State 1997 Lock Haven Cary Kolat 142 Penn State 1987 Pitt-Johnstown Carlton Haselrig 275 Lock Haven {FB} 1988 Pitt-Johnstown Carlton Haselrig 275 Lock Haven {FB} 1989 Pitt-Johnstown Carlton Haselrig 275 Lock Haven {FB} 1965 Oklahoma Greg Ruth 167 Lehigh 1966 Oklahoma Greg Ruth 160 Lehigh 1984 Penn State Scott Lynch 134 Navy 2002 Lehigh Rob Rohn 184 Clarion 2000 Minnesota Brock Lesnar 285 Bismarck State 2015 Penn State Mathew Brown 174 Iowa State 2002 Iowa State Aaron Holker 141 Brigham Young 2011 Arizona State Bubba Jenkins 157 Penn State 1970 Oklahoma State Darrell Keller 134 Columbia Basin 1971 Oklahoma State Darrell Keller 142 Columbia Basin 1960 Oklahoma Dale Lewis UNL Marquette 1961 Oklahoma Dale Lewis UNL Marquette Edited April 4 by cowcards 1 1
PortaJohn Posted April 4 Posted April 4 (edited) On 4/2/2024 at 6:03 PM, Wrestleknownothing said: Then the answer to the expanded question, who won and then transferred? WKN, here's a fascinating one. UPenn's Rchard DiBatista won titles in '41 & '42 at 175. Transferred to Navy and AA'd in '01 '02 at 141. Snuck into the tournament under the alias Mark Conley. Maybe @cowcards has the back story https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/98 Edited April 4 by PortaJohn 1 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted
jchapman Posted April 4 Posted April 4 13 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: WKN, here's a fascinating one. UPenn's Rchard DiBatista won titles in '41 & '42 at 175. Transferred to Navy and AA'd in '01 '02 at 141. Snuck into the tournament under the alias Mark Conley. Maybe @cowcards has the back story https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/98 That must have been quite a weight pull for a man of that age. Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals.
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 4 Author Posted April 4 10 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: WKN, here's a fascinating one. UPenn's Rchard DiBatista won titles in '41 & '42 at 175. Transferred to Navy and AA'd in '01 '02 at 141. Snuck into the tournament under the alias Mark Conley. Maybe @cowcards has the back story https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/98 That is a pretty funny oops. Click on the "Suggest an Edit" button. I have done this and they are very responsive. That is how the Wade Schalles bio got fixed. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
PortaJohn Posted April 4 Posted April 4 12 minutes ago, jchapman said: That must have been quite a weight pull for a man of that age. I've been told "old man strength" is more than a state of mind I Don't Agree With What I Posted
jross Posted April 4 Posted April 4 21 hours ago, 1032004 said: Brad Smith for anyone who doesn’t want to google (edited due to accidentally reading the search result wrong initially) NO! It was Brad Smith!
Natalie Rush Canon-McMillan, Pennsylvania Class of 2025 Committed to West Liberty (Women) Projected Weight: 207
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