Goodale is spot on Re: tournament scoring

[Show_Me]

This is discussed every year post NCAA Tournament.  And then it’s not discussed again for another 51 weeks.  Lol.

Simple solution in my opinion.  If advancement points are only worth HALF in the consolations …. then Bonus points should also only be worth HALF as much.

It’s hard to understand the rationale to score Consolations the same (in regards to Bonus).

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

No bc he’s a head coach at a major big 10 school whose been catching more and more heat , it’s a little naive to think he’s doing this for the greater good of the sport when half the fan base is at his ass

 

and for the record scoring bonus in college is really really difficult, so guys should be rewarded more for a pin then a 1-1 OT Lewan style win 

Should it be rewarded 5x as much?  

[Antitroll2828]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Should it be rewarded 5x as much?  

In my opinion yes , Bonusing guys in college is really hard nevermind at the ncaa tournament against people whose wrestling careers and dreams are on the line 

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Eagle26 said:

I’d like to see winners bracket advancement 2 points, consis 1 pt. All pins or techs 1 pt. And all majors .5 pt. 

Then stay consistent make TF 0.75 pt. 

 

ohh ..  but don't let Wkn do the scoring in his tablow program. 

Edited March 28 by ionel

[Jim L]

1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

This is all bc atleast half the fan base wants Goodale gone bc the program is stagnant and finished 20th at ncaas and for not capitalizing on having 2 ncaa champs and a top 10 finish at ncaas a few years back, Two AAs used to have Rutgers fans dancing in the street but now finishing behind schools like WVU they want to see progress …..  Goodale also wants to get rid of team scoring all together at ncaas and just have national duals ..Which is funny bc rutgers hasn’t won a dual they weren’t supposed too since 2015 … can’t succeed in the current system ? Well then let’s just change it 

So Rutgers fans who are not happy with the 20th place will be happy with say 16th place thatt Rutgers might get if tournament rules are tweaked?

 

[Jim L]

Personally, if your team is not top 3 why would you care as a fan if you are 10th or 20th?

I would judge the success of my team by how the individuals do, A few high AAs or even blood round guys would be a better way to judge than where you are in the top 20.

I know it is easier to just look at NCAA team placement

[Bigbrog]

Sour grapes on Goodale's part....

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Wonder how he would have felt if they scored a bunch of bonus on the backside?

[davenowa]

guess I don't understand attacking the messenger when the message has such merit.  while everyone wants to see more pins, there is still something inherently wrong with a pin being worth 4 x a decision, especially when most fans are at least used to scoring double (6 vs 3) in a dual format.  both suggestions noted above could be implemented, whereby consi advancement matches HS and is worth 1 pt (half of topside) AND consi bonus points are worth half the topside as well.  The current format also overly rewards forfeits on the consi side. For what it's worth, I would still prefer to revamp tourney scoring so that the average fan can easily follow, with it matching dual scoring.  No advancement points, tweak place points and make consis just half of champ side. combined, of course, with margin of victory scoring. 

[Jason Bryant]

26 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Personally, if your team is not top 3 why would you care as a fan if you are 10th or 20th?

 

As stupid as this sounds, from an administrator's point of view, it's Director's Cup points. 

[BigRedFan]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Should it be rewarded 5x as much?  

Watching Vito destroy opponents, pushing for vital team points, is certainly worth more than 5x as much as watching Fix stall his way to a one point OT victory.

The value of bonus points, in either bracket, was shown by all the wrestlers who were going for team trophies, or, in the case of Penn State, going for an historic team point total.  Those matches were great to watch until the final whistle.

[mspart]

According to https://pistolsfiringblog.com/guide-ncaa-wrestling-tournament-scoring/

Placement Points

• 1st place: 16 points
• 2nd place: 12 points
• 3rd place: 10 points
• 4th place: 9 points
• 5th place: 7 points
• 6th place: 6 points
• 7th place: 4 points
• 8th place: 3 points

Advancement Points

• Each advancement in championship bracket: 1 point
• Each advancement in consolation bracket: 0.5 point

Bonus Points

• Each fall, forfeit, default, disqualification: 2 points
• Each tech fall (w/ near fall points): 1.5 points
• Each tech fall (w/o near fall points): 1 point
• Each major decision: 1 point

Does it not seem reasonable that the bonus points should be halved for the consi bracket like the advancement points? 

mspart

[Paul158]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Either increase wins to 2 on frontside and 1 on backside, or decrease bonus points on the backside.

That is all that needs  to be done. It would bring an easy and fair  solution.

[Eagle26]

3 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

In my opinion yes , Bonusing guys in college is really hard nevermind at the ncaa tournament against people whose wrestling careers and dreams are on the line 

Actually, pins come easier when dreams are on the line… for example, in a dual meet, a wrestler who is losing may simply try to avoid bonus to help his team. At NCAAs, most wrestlers don’t care if they lose by a point or if they get pinned. It’s all the same to them (unless maybe both teams are in the team race). I’ve seen guys get taken down in OT and just give up the pin because their dreams are already crushed - I don’t like it but I get it. 
 

Furthermore, I just have a hard time seeing any way of justifying pins as sooo much more valuable. Here’s what Goodale’s example could look like. 
Wrestler A wins by fall, loses, wbf, and then loses -  ending up 2-2 with 5.5 team points. Wrestler B loses, wins 4 in row on the backside (all decisions - including a win over Wrestler B), then drops his final bout to take 8th. He ends the tournament 4-2 and an ALL-AMERICAN. He earns 5 team points. 
 

I just don’t see how Wrestler A could be viewed as a better tournament. Team points should reflect the scoring better. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

According to https://pistolsfiringblog.com/guide-ncaa-wrestling-tournament-scoring/

Placement Points

• 1st place: 16 points
• 2nd place: 12 points
• 3rd place: 10 points
• 4th place: 9 points
• 5th place: 7 points
• 6th place: 6 points
• 7th place: 4 points
• 8th place: 3 points

Advancement Points

• Each advancement in championship bracket: 1 point
• Each advancement in consolation bracket: 0.5 point

Bonus Points

• Each fall, forfeit, default, disqualification: 2 points
• Each tech fall (w/ near fall points): 1.5 points
• Each tech fall (w/o near fall points): 1 point
• Each major decision: 1 point

Does it not seem reasonable that the bonus points should be halved for the consi bracket like the advancement points? 

mspart

FYI, there is no longer a difference between a tech fall with and without back points. They are all worth 1.5 points now.