Coach Manning calling a spade a spade!

[flyingcement]

44 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

As an NC State fan, I was extremely surprised to see Faison in the bracket.

two wins over Augustine who has plenty of wins over the rest of the field.  In turn, I selected Augustine as my darkhorse

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

As an NC State fan, I was extremely surprised to see Faison in the bracket.

My man... he stole a bid.  He didn't get an at-large.  None lf the three I mentioned did, meaning that comparing resumes with Wilson makes no sense.

[nhs67]

40 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

two wins over Augustine who has plenty of wins over the rest of the field.  In turn, I selected Augustine as my darkhorse

See above.  He didn't get an at-large.  He stole Augustine's bid.

[Ched64]

11 hours ago, NM1965 said:

I've watched lots of NU duals but I've never seen Manning acting like any more of a fruitcake than other coaches, especially the Brands. But I've never heard the Brand's boys mewling like bitches over people from other teams defaulting out, either. Manning sounds like an excuse-making Karen to me. 

Say what you will but Manning is a hell of a coach.  Are you saying that if he sees a situation being handled completely different than it has been in his many many years in the business he should say nothing?  If Starocci won last week Lewis would have been the two seed wrestling the 3 seed in the semis.  Now he gets Starocci…effectively relegating him to the 4 seed.  Anybody should see the problem here.

[swoopdown]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

How many matches did Cael have?

Cael's durablity over his college career was, I believe, atypical.  And Cael recognizing that or perhaps even believing that his load was too much for most others could be a factor driving his position today.  Good line of questioning for a sports jounalist to put to him.   

[forkemaz]

10 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I find nothing wrong with gamesmanship. That is just what people call strategy when they have been out-strategized. Most people fail to read and understand the rules of the game they participate in, even professionally. If they either do not know the rules, or do not like the rules, then change the rules.

It is important to note that in this case the rules were changed, and Starocci is the #9 seed as a result.

It is also worth noting that Starocci EARNED the #1 seed at the conference tournament. If Manning thinks it would be noble of him to reveal how injured he is, and truly believes that, so be it. It is naïve in the extreme.

Claiming Wilson, or anyone else, should be bailed out of the seed they earned by someone else's unconfirmed injury (remember none of you, I, Manning, or @jajensen09 yet know if Starocci will wrestle Thursday) is also naïve, and an awful idea.

Strategy and gaming the system are not the same thing. Gaming the system can be a strategy but that requires you to form your strategy around edge cases and loop holes. Which looks alot like the ugly drop down situation in freestyle. You don't mind it from coaches because it's not as physically ugly but it's just as bad if not worse.

[forkemaz]

10 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I find nothing wrong with gamesmanship. That is just what people call strategy when they have been out-strategized. Most people fail to read and understand the rules of the game they participate in, even professionally. If they either do not know the rules, or do not like the rules, then change the rules.

It is important to note that in this case the rules were changed, and Starocci is the #9 seed as a result.

It is also worth noting that Starocci EARNED the #1 seed at the conference tournament. If Manning thinks it would be noble of him to reveal how injured he is, and truly believes that, so be it. It is naïve in the extreme.

Claiming Wilson, or anyone else, should be bailed out of the seed they earned by someone else's unconfirmed injury (remember none of you, I, Manning, or @jajensen09 yet know if Starocci will wrestle Thursday) is also naïve, and an awful idea.

Also you're just lying didn't you bitch about Dresser and the last chance? 

[Wrestleknownothing]

11 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

Also you're just lying didn't you bitch about Dresser and the last chance? 

Dresser actual broke a rule. He just wasn't punished for it. 

[JimmyBT]

7 hours ago, forkemaz said:

Strategy and gaming the system are not the same thing. Gaming the system can be a strategy but that requires you to form your strategy around edge cases and loop holes. Which looks alot like the ugly drop down situation in freestyle. You don't mind it from coaches because it's not as physically ugly but it's just as bad if not worse.

If it’s not breaking a rule and it’s legal then do it.  Who cares what people think. Get the rule changed if you don’t like it. 

[forkemaz]

8 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

 

Oops

1 hour ago, JimmyBT said:

If it’s not breaking a rule and it’s legal then do it.  Who cares what people think. Get the rule changed if you don’t like it. 

Disgusting logic. Also idiotic. Yeah just change the rules if you don't like them. Totally. We all have that power. 

[1032004]

9 hours ago, forkemaz said:

Strategy and gaming the system are not the same thing. Gaming the system can be a strategy but that requires you to form your strategy around edge cases and loop holes. Which looks alot like the ugly drop down situation in freestyle. You don't mind it from coaches because it's not as physically ugly but it's just as bad if not worse.

If we’re simply talking about Starocci or Suriano’s seedings at B10’s, he didn’t game the system though.  The system is set to seed wrestlers based on their performance that season, not whether or not they are injured going into that tournament.

His entire suggestion is to make another gray area, recommending that coaches should say to seed their wrestler last when they really shouldn’t be.

There are 2 possible solutions IMO:

1. Get rid of wildcards

2. Allow guys to get wildcards without entering the conference tournament

I think I’d lean towards option 1

[forkemaz]

Just now, 1032004 said:

If we’re simply talking about Starocci or Suriano’s seedings at B10’s, he didn’t game the system though.  The system is set to seed wrestlers based on their performance that season, not whether or not they are injured going into that tournament.

His entire suggestion is to make another gray area, recommending that coaches should say to seed their wrestler last when they really shouldn’t be.

There are 2 possible solutions IMO:

1. Get rid of wildcards

2. Allow guys to get wildcards without entering the conference tournament

I think I’d lean towards option 1

Really good post. We can not do option one without adding a duel championship as the regular season is already turning for the worse with guys not going out for matches.

[JimmyBT]

34 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

Oops

Disgusting logic. Also idiotic. Yeah just change the rules if you don't like them. Totally. We all have that power. 

Ummmm it’s how the world works.  No different than the new 3 pt TD. There’s a coaches rules committee that can implement things. Manning can certainly get the ball rolling if he wants to.  
 

 

[nhs67]

9 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Dresser actual broke a rule. He just wasn't punished for it. 

What's wild is he openly admitted to breaking said rule(s) on several podcasts/interviews and nothing came of it.

Where was Manning then?

This seems to have some elements of being a bridesmaid and not the bride in it.

[NM1965]

I wouldn't mind the idea of more duals, it could have the beneficial aspect of making coaches put their reserves in more often on a strategic basis. It would add travel expenses to the season though, among other things. How many average duals do they even have these days? 15 or so? How many is too many duals?

Edited March 20 by NM1965

[whaletail]

49 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

Oops

Disgusting logic. Also idiotic. Yeah just change the rules if you don't like them. Totally. We all have that power. 

As much as I didn't like the way Cael handled Suriano's injury at NCAAs, I can't come up with a valid opposing argument.

If it were high school, it'd likely be a different story, but as a college coach, I just don't see how he owes a duty of care to anyone beyond the university and those on his team.

Seems un-Christian, and certainly not in line with Jesus' teachings, but given how little he publicly proselytizes, I'm not even comfortable calling the guy a hypocrite.

[Maxwell Smart]

Absolutely understand his point, he's calling out the system that allows this to happen. Don't know the answer,

but his wrestler would probably go 0-2. 

[jajensen09]

4 minutes ago, Maxwell Smart said:

Absolutely understand his point, he's calling out the system that allows this to happen. Don't know the answer,

but his wrestler would probably go 0-2. 

Not sure if you seen the bracket at 174. But Wilson had Devos on the ropes

[nhs67]

7 minutes ago, whaletail said:

As much as I didn't like the way Cael handled Suriano's injury at NCAAs, I can't come up with a valid opposing argument.

If it were high school, it'd likely be a different story, but as a college coach, I just don't see how he owes a duty of care to anyone beyond the university and those on his team.

Seems un-Christian, and certainly not in line with Jesus' teachings, but given how little he publicly proselytizes, I'm not even comfortable calling the guy a hypocrite.

Bringing any sort of religion in to it removes any attempt at validation you are trying to create.  Sorry/not sorry.  Many of the most evil, vile people in existence today and throughout history have done bad or evil in the name of whatever religious deity they zealously chose to follow.

[nhs67]

1 minute ago, jajensen09 said:

Not sure if you seen the bracket at 174. But Wilson had Devos on the ropes

Didn't Devos have a negative bonus percentage this year.

Obviously I am being stupid with that comment, but the point is that nearly half of his victories were within one takedown from being sent to overtime or losing outright.

If we are going to throw stones at the #2 seed in comparison, why not bring up the 7-2 Decision loss to the guy who stole his AQ in Baumann or loss via Pinfellery to Lock Haven redshirt Bassett?

[Wrestleknownothing]

Wasn't on the ropes eliminated as a qualifying criteria last year?

[NM1965]

11 hours ago, Ched64 said:

Say what you will but Manning is a hell of a coach.  Are you saying that if he sees a situation being handled completely different than it has been in his many many years in the business he should say nothing?  If Starocci won last week Lewis would have been the two seed wrestling the 3 seed in the semis.  Now he gets Starocci…effectively relegating him to the 4 seed.  Anybody should see the problem here.

Obviously he's a good coach, but he's still a whiny Karen. 

[ionel]

40 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

or loss via Pinfellery 

Now you are speaking the language of the knownothings. 

[NM1965]

11 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Dresser actual broke a rule. He just wasn't punished for it. 

What did he do? 

[Wrestleknownothing]

15 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

What did he do? 

He arranged the byes so that his wrestlers would be guaranteed enough matches (all layups) to up their match total and win% to secure some AQ spots.