Mesenbrink Ranking: enough is enough

[Dogbone]

2 hours ago, TwoJoints said:

I understand seeding can be a point of pride, but IMHO being seeded 1 thru 4 is basically meaningless. In the end you’ve got to beat the best anywhere. Where it might make a difference is in the middle seeds (eg. the true 6 ranked as a 9) where it might cause you to encounter a higher seed a bout earlier in the bracket.

It is not a point of pride.  It sets up the Semifinal matches.  If Carr and KOT wrestle twice before NCAAs, I don't think we need to see that match on Friday night just because MM or Ramirez didn't have the same schedule.  

Of course it matters for the lower seeds as well as it sets up their path to AA.  

[Caveira]

3 hours ago, PSULou64 said:

I think the reason they play it razor thin has to do with trying to be as healthy as possible going into the post season.  It would appear that they believe you can be at the top of your game having only wrestled 15 or so matches prior to Big Tens and be far healthier as well. 

We also knew this year was probably more of an issue because they told us it would be a reduced schedule. There are a good number of guys on the PSU team who are training to be potential olympians (also training with current olympians and world team members at the NLWC) and they are trying to balance that with the college season.

Then there should be less griping about their seeds/rankings at this point.  

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You got that one backward. The person who wrestles more, with the same number of loses, will have the higher winning percentage, helping their seed.

Correct/agreed I wrote that backwards.  Typo.  Doubt I can edit it now lol.  

[KLCarnegieTech_1969]

Rankings are just rankings, people's opinions.  Time will tell.  I suspect Messenbrink will beat Carr.  Askren had some interesting things to say about the KOT matchup.  He said it could go either way.  They are from the same club and probably have a history.  It will all come out in the wash.  

Edited January 30 by KLCarnegieTech_1969

[Winners Circle]

20 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I know that.  IF David Carr loses to O'Toole, he will also have two losses.  Add in Hall and Izzy are both in the B12 and Ramirez has... Mulvaney?  Cerniglia?  Kim?  They're world's different as far as depth goes, BUT EIWA could have 5 or 6 AQ, which will help Ramirez in the QW department.

Sorry, misunderstood your OP.

[Winners Circle]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:13 AM, flyingcement said:

Tier 1: O'Toole

Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr

Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo

Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall

I'd say my tiers, based on where guys are and how they're wrestling right now, are: 

T1: KOT & Carr

T2: MM

T3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo, Amine, Fish, Hall

 

MM may be T1, but I need to see it first. And I think it's obvious he's separated himself from the T3 field. 

[nhs67]

1 minute ago, Winners Circle said:

I'd say my tiers, based on where guys are and how they're wrestling right now, are: 

T1: KOT & Carr

T2: MM

T3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo, Amine, Fish, Hall

 

MM may be T1, but I need to see it first. And I think it's obvious he's separated himself from the T3 field. 

Can't jump tiers unless something extreme happens (injury, illness, or a deckfall).  Either Ramirez needs to be Tier 2 as well or Carr needs to be Tier 2.

The law of Tiers.

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Can't jump tiers unless something extreme happens (injury, illness, or a deckfall).  Either Ramirez needs to be Tier 2 as well or Carr needs to be Tier 2.

The law of Tiers.

I see your point. But getting majored by KOT is enough of an extreme for me. I don't see Carr or MM ever being majored by anyone. 

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I see your point. But getting majored by KOT is enough of an extreme for me. I don't see Carr or MM ever being majored by anyone. 

You should go watch the match.

Ramirez did considerably better than a Major would indicate.

In any case... can't skip tiers.  One way or the other one of them must be Tier 2.

Edited January 30 by nhs67

[Pinnacle]

41 minutes ago, KLCarnegieTech_1969 said:

Rankings are just rankings, people's opinions.  Time will tell.  I suspect Messenbrink will beat Carr.  Askren had some interesting things to say about the KOT matchup.  He said it could go either way.  They are from the same club and probably have a history.  It will all come out in the wash.  

Not to play spoiler here, but if they are indeed a 50-50 tossup then KOT has no chance just due to how good the PSU coaches are at the challenge bricks. 

[nhs67]

Just now, Pinnacle said:

Not to play spoiler here, but if they are indeed a 50-50 tossup then KOT has no chance just due to how good the PSU coaches are at the challenge bricks. 

Cael lost one the other day.  Be careful there.

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

You should go watch the match.

Ramirez did considerably better than a Major would indicate.

In any case... can't skip tiers.  One way or the other one of them must be Tier 2.

I did watch it. And I actually think I will skip tiers and leave it the way I have it. Makes sense in my simple little brain. 

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I did watch it. And I actually think I will skip tiers and leave it the way I have it. Makes sense in my simple little brain. 

Can't.

Laws of Tiering have now been implemented and your tiers are invalid.

Code: ERROR

Cannot comply.

[VakAttack]

2 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

If the seeding was different, and Lewis and Foca were the #2 and #3 seeds, Foca may have beaten Lewis in the semi-finals instead of the consolation finals, and would have wrestled Saturday night (with teammates Arujau and Yianni!) for the title against Starocci.

Ifs and buts.  WHY should the seeding have been different?  Labs had one loss that season, to Starocci, the 1 seed.  Foca had one loss, to the two seed.  Foca's bes in-season win was, looking at it, Cade Devos?  Labriola won the CKLV by beating Lewis, at the same event where Foca lost to him.  Labriola had wins over Nelson Brands, multiple wins over Ethan Smith from Ohio State, and beat Cade Devos (Foca's best win) by a bigger margin of 4-0.  There wasn't a realistic reason why Foca should have been seeded over Labriola or Lewis.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, KLCarnegieTech_1969 said:

Rankings are just rankings, people's opinions.  Time will tell.  I suspect Messenbrink will beat Carr.  Askren had some interesting things to say about the KOT matchup.  He said it could go either way.  They are from the same club and probably have a history.  It will all come out in the wash.  

Same high school and high school coach, too.  (John Messenbrink)

[BigRedFan]

17 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Ifs and buts.  WHY should the seeding have been different?  Labs had one loss that season, to Starocci, the 1 seed.  Foca had one loss, to the two seed.  Foca's bes in-season win was, looking at it, Cade Devos?  Labriola won the CKLV by beating Lewis, at the same event where Foca lost to him.  Labriola had wins over Nelson Brands, multiple wins over Ethan Smith from Ohio State, and beat Cade Devos (Foca's best win) by a bigger margin of 4-0.  There wasn't a realistic reason why Foca should have been seeded over Labriola or Lewis.

FFS, all I said, in response to a claim that seeding 1 through 4 doesn't matter, was that in this particular case it did matter.  I didn't make any claims *at all* about what the seeding should have been, if indeed it should have been different.

[VakAttack]

Just now, BigRedFan said:

FFS, all I said, in response to a claim that seeding 1 through 4 doesn't matter, was that in this particular case it did matter.  I didn't make any claims *at all* about what the seeding should have been, if indeed it should have been different.

Ok....but that's an argument without a point.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Same high school and high school coach, too.  (John Messenbrink)

Is Messenbrink the new Stevenson?

[TylerDurden]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Is Messenbrink the new Stevenson?

Who? 

[nhs67]

Just now, TylerDurden said:

Who? 

Gable Stevenson.

[Winners Circle]

3 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Gable Stevenson.

[Pinnacle]

51 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Cael lost one the other day.  Be careful there.

No staff is perfect, but they are the undisputed Challenge Brick Champions.

[Wrestleknownothing]

25 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

Who? 

Exactly.

Its like that 3D art. If you stare at it long enough, you will get it.

[Le duke]

No staff is perfect, but they are the undisputed Challenge Brick Champions.

I’ve never seen a team trainer with so much involvement but Dan Monthley has a remarkable touch with his right foot on a challenge brick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogbone]

47 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

FFS, all I said, in response to a claim that seeding 1 through 4 doesn't matter, was that in this particular case it did matter.  I didn't make any claims *at all* about what the seeding should have been, if indeed it should have been different.

It did??   There is no evidence to suggest Foca could have or would have beaten Labs during that tournament.  He didn't get the opportunity but that doesn't mean it did matter. 

Of course, every tournament has examples were the the eventual runner up didn't beat the eventual 3rd and the hypothetical finals would be different.  

Seeding 1-4 absolutely has an impact and is important. Foca just isn't a great example.