Upset Thread

[flyingcement]

 

[MPhillips]

43 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

 Saying they moved all of the weights up 7 pounds makes no sense.

What are you getting on about?   They "slightly adjusted" the weight classes by seven pounds.

 

[RawDog]

Yea boarman is pretty scrappy, I remember him giving Bouzakis some trouble. That's a huge win.

[BruceyB]

19 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

What are you getting on about?   They "slightly adjusted" the weight classes by seven pounds.

 

I can admit when I was wrong. The change happened before I started wrestling. I have always thought that they essentially got rid of 118 and then adjusted all of the remaining weights so their would still be 10. I never realized that they literally just added 7 pounds to each weight. But that's still moot to my point that not enough athletes could safely fill the weight class for it to be worth keeping as is.

[ionel]

They got rid of the lowest weight and slightly adjusted the other weights to compensate. Saying they moved all of the weights up 7 pounds makes no sense. You could equally argue that they actually lowered 126 to 125, and 134 to 133, etc as a response to removing the lowest weight. 118 wasn't a weight that many grown men could make without cutting a severe amount of weight (not enough healthy 118s).

ahh ... no

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[ionel]

They got rid of the lowest weight and slightly adjusted the other weights to compensate. Saying they moved all of the weights up 7 pounds makes no sense. You could equally argue that they actually lowered 126 to 125, and 134 to 133, etc as a response to removing the lowest weight. 118 wasn't a weight that many grown men could make without cutting a severe amount of weight (not enough healthy 118s).

ahh ... no

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[Gus]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

College isn't even king in the US.  NCAA wrestling is nowhere near the most popular version of wrestling, even in the states.  When has NCAA wrestling had THOUSANDS of wrestlers (and their fans) break a city because of too many competitors (and their fans/supporters) show up?

When it comes to worldwide, there just isn't a conversation to be had.

What event are you referencing that broke a city?

[nick]

1 hour ago, flyingcement said:

 

Boarman is from Nick Lee's alma mater, Mater Dei HS in Evansville, IN

[lu_alum]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

I can admit when I was wrong. The change happened before I started wrestling. I have always thought that they essentially got rid of 118 and then adjusted all of the remaining weights so their would still be 10. I never realized that they literally just added 7 pounds to each weight. But that's still moot to my point that not enough athletes could safely fill the weight class for it to be worth keeping as is.

No worries.  For more background, here's an NCAA News article, written prior to the start of the 1998-99 season...

https://ncaanewsarchive.s3.amazonaws.com/1998/19981123/active/3537n03.html

[1032004]

7 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Wouldn't that be true for all feeder systems?

There are more kids playing HS football than college.

Just like there are more kids wrestling in HS and at high school events than collegiately...

We will never have as many senior level athletes as we do college level athletes.  That means less first tier supporters (moms/dads/significant others/etc).

“First tier supporters” aren’t really the same as “fans” IMO.   Does HS wrestling really have many fans that aren’t “first tier supporters”?  NCAA wrestling does.
 

[nhs67]

11 hours ago, BruceyB said:

They got rid of the lowest weight and slightly adjusted the other weights to compensate. Saying they moved all of the weights up 7 pounds makes no sense. You could equally argue that they actually lowered 126 to 125, and 134 to 133, etc as a response to removing the lowest weight. 118 wasn't a weight that many grown men could make without cutting a severe amount of weight (not enough healthy 118s).

What you're going to have to accept is that what I said was what actually happened.  It's really that simple.

[nhs67]

10 hours ago, Gus said:

What event are you referencing that broke a city?

I am specifically talking about an experience I had in Akron years ago.  My understanding is that it's much better now.

[Gus]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I am specifically talking about an experience I had in Akron years ago.  My understanding is that it's much better now.

A gigantic youth soccer tournament can break a city. Does that mean that youth soccer has more "fans" than the English Premiere League? If you go to an EPL soccer game, there might be 500 people out of the 100,000 that are at the event that are friends / family of the athletes competing. If you go to a youth soccer tournament the family / friends percentage probably eclipses 95%. 

[nhs67]

47 minutes ago, Gus said:

A gigantic youth soccer tournament can break a city. Does that mean that youth soccer has more "fans" than the English Premiere League? If you go to an EPL soccer game, there might be 500 people out of the 100,000 that are at the event that are friends / family of the athletes competing. If you go to a youth soccer tournament the family / friends percentage probably eclipses 95%. 

There are more youth league fans than premier league fans strictly off pure numbers of competitors and their direct support/fans alone.

There is more prestige higher up, but you cannot be a fan of the EPL if you were not at some point a fan youth soccer can you?

I think we're beating a dead horse and are just going to have to agree to disagree.  To me, pure numbers-wise, I don't see how there could be more fans and supporters for college folkstyle than there could be for our youth developmental system.

[1032004]

3 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

There are more youth league fans than premier league fans strictly off pure numbers of competitors and their direct support/fans alone.

There is more prestige higher up, but you cannot be a fan of the EPL if you were not at some point a fan youth soccer can you?

I think we're beating a dead horse and are just going to have to agree to disagree.  To me, pure numbers-wise, I don't see how there could be more fans and supporters for college folkstyle than there could be for our youth developmental system.

I’m not sure I’d really call a parent that only cares about their kid a “fan of the sport,” but to each their own.

[nhs67]

34 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I’m not sure I’d really call a parent that only cares about their kid a “fan of the sport,” but to each their own.

They're the first fan any wrestler has...

[maligned]

16 hours ago, RawDog said:

Yea boarman is pretty scrappy, I remember him giving Bouzakis some trouble. That's a huge win.

Super athletic and powerful for the weight. He earned the SoCon an at-large NCAA bid last year before getting shocked conference weekend and not having enough top-level competition evidence to get him the at-large bid he was in line for. Ranked matches this year are 8-5 loss to Bouzakis and 4-1 SV loss to #12 Oakley (who he split with last year)--plus the upset over Bailey last night. He's 5-2 overall.

Edited December 17 by maligned

[bnwtwg]

On 12/16/2024 at 6:56 PM, BruceyB said:

A lot of guys change weight classes over their 5 years of college regardless of weight class. But when it comes to weight distribution, just like we no longer have a 118 weight class in college because the weight doesn't have enough athletes to justify it, adding a weight for few competitors that can't make 197 but aren't big enough to compete at 285 doesn't make sense either. The number of high level wrestlers in this situation is just not high enough to make an entire weight for those individuals. This is especially true if the cost is removing a middle weight class where the majority of the athletes in our sport compete.

There aren't enough competitors or there aren't enough opportunities?

[PortaJohn]

On 12/16/2024 at 9:41 PM, ionel said:

ahh ... no

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On 12/16/2024 at 9:41 PM, ionel said:

ahh ... no

Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk
 

Does Tapatalk have a double tap feature or is this double response part of your new persona?

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

 

Does Tapatalk have a double tap feature or is this double response part of your new persona?

Yes Yes

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

There aren't enough competitors or there aren't enough opportunities?

Let's be honest here, the majority of wrestlers are not under 125 pounds or over 200 pounds. The average size of a healthy adult male falls somewhere between the two. And then consider participants in wrestling where the majority of athletes that are 200 pounds or larger and have the athleticism to be a competitive d1 athlete aren't choosing wrestling as their main sport.

[nhs67]

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Let's be honest here, the majority of wrestlers are not under 125 pounds or over 200 pounds. The average size of a healthy adult male falls somewhere between the two. And then consider participants in wrestling where the majority of athletes that are 200 pounds or larger and have the athleticism to be a competitive d1 athlete aren't choosing wrestling as their main sport.

I agree with everything you have said.

I also think that is something specific to the USA.  There are countries that push out better lower weights because it suits their team makeup and there are those who push out better upper weights for the same reasoning.

If 55 KG was still the weight class (it is for MGR, fwiw), for MFS, then you'd see the major players still making that weight with very little issue (Russia/Iran/Japan, etc.).  The USA is bigger than other countries on average, and it really isn't that close.

[wrestlingfan22]

3 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I agree with everything you have said.

I also think that is something specific to the USA.  There are countries that push out better lower weights because it suits their team makeup and there are those who push out better upper weights for the same reasoning.

If 55 KG was still the weight class (it is for MGR, fwiw), for MFS, then you'd see the major players still making that weight with very little issue (Russia/Iran/Japan, etc.).  The USA is bigger than other countries on average, and it really isn't that close.

The issue the US also has is that while the people are bigger, wrestling is far from the most popular sport. Other countries don't lose half of the top 20 HS heavyweights yearly to HS/college football. I mean look we lost Gable for the most recent Olympics because he wanted to dick around in a Bills uniform for a summer. 

Edited Wednesday at 04:37 PM by wrestlingfan22

[bnwtwg]

14 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Let's be honest here, the majority of wrestlers are not under 125 pounds or over 200 pounds. The average size of a healthy adult male falls somewhere between the two. And then consider participants in wrestling where the majority of athletes that are 200 pounds or larger and have the athleticism to be a competitive d1 athlete aren't choosing wrestling as their main sport.

Okay so let's take a step back for a second because everyone seems to consistently miss the point.

There are limited opportunities due to lack of weight classes. If you give more weight classes then naturally the participant pool will grow. When your options are

1) Bulk up as much as possible to get up to 240-250 and lose what made you special in the first place

2) Cut harder than anyone else on the team to shrink down to 197 and lose what made you special in the first place

3) Do neither and enjoy college but give up wrestling as the cost

Then you are only presented with miserable choices. Everyone else gets a weight class for their body why can't the people taller than 5'7 who hit the gym?

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

 Everyone else gets a weight class for their body why can't the people taller than 5'7 who hit the gym?

Mark Branch would like a word.