Maine shooting

[neutral]

21 minutes ago, ionel said:

What war?

Don't be obtuse.  AR rifles are not meant for civilian use.

[Wrestleknownothing]

38 minutes ago, headshuck said:

I suppose this mentally ill psychopath would have just stayed home and watched tv if he didn’t have his AR? He probably had a cabinet full of weapons.

Are you saying because he had other weapons he should also have an AR? So dumb. Why not a tank, too? 

This psycho, who probably did have more weapons, sorted through those weapons and chose the one most efficient at killing. Get rid of efficency in murder.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, neutral said:

Don't be obtuse.  AR rifles are not meant for civilian use.

So what war?  And sure they were, educate yourself. 

[Plasmodium]

AR-15s should be melted down and recast into yo-yos.  Assault weapons belong in the military.

[Plasmodium]

Why are these abominations the weapon of choice for mass murderers?  It is more than their capacity to efficiently kill humans.  It is also more than the odd culture that reveres them.

[Husker_Du]

2 hours ago, headshuck said:

I suppose this mentally ill psychopath would have just stayed home and watched tv if he didn’t have his AR? He probably had a cabinet full of weapons.

no, but the number of meaningless deaths would be at a fraction.

no one needs that horsepower. 

[Paul158]

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

A good point.  Truly unfortunate that we live in the only country with so many mentally ill psychopaths.

Right now in America there are roughly 13 million Adults with severe mental illness. Wow. There are another 50 million Adults with some level of mental illness. (this is crazy). Right now in America there are roughly 3 million children (teens) with severe mental illness. 

[Paul158]

6 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

no, but the number of meaningless deaths would be at a fraction.

no one needs that horsepower. 

What is even worse is having 13 million American adults with severe mental illness with any kind of access to a gun,car,knife,alchohol or explosives.  Then you have around another 3 million teens (or younger) with severe mental illness having access to the above-mentioned items.  

[WrestlingRasta]

3 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

What is even worse is having 13 million American adults with severe mental illness with any kind of access to a gun,car,knife,alchohol or explosives.  Then you have around another 3 million teens (or younger) with severe mental illness having access to the above-mentioned items.  

I can't imagine how we've come up with so many people going crazy and filled with hate.

[Paul158]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I can't imagine how we've come up with so many people going crazy and filled with hate.

I was shocked by the numbers. This is really bad.

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

I was shocked by the numbers. This is really bad.

I wouldn't mind seeing how they qualify their terms.   I'm sure there is some skewing going on there.  But the point remains.

[Bigbrog]

Wish more people spent their time addressing root cause of this issue rather than blaming an inanimate object.  We have a mental health crisis versus an AR crisis...hell, half of you blaming an inanimate object don't even know what an AR is.  Fix the root cause!!

[Bigbrog]

Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims families!

[Plasmodium]

9 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Wish more people spent their time addressing root cause of this issue rather than blaming an inanimate object.  We have a mental health crisis versus an AR crisis...hell, half of you blaming an inanimate object don't even know what an AR is.  Fix the root cause!!

Why is the sale and possession of guns, let alone assault weapons, to the mentally ill and unstable allowed?  Why are firearms, especially AR-15s glorified and revered by our culture?

[Bigbrog]

1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Why is the sale and possession of guns, let alone assault weapons, to the mentally ill and unstable allowed?  Why are firearms, especially AR-15s glorified and revered by our culture?

Great questions...guns (they are all guns and not some made up media term to scare people) should NOT be sold to mentally ill people!!  The right to own guns are one of the reasons we are a free country.  

[VakAttack]

17 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Wish more people spent their time addressing root cause of this issue rather than blaming an inanimate object.  We have a mental health crisis versus an AR crisis...hell, half of you blaming an inanimate object don't even know what an AR is.  Fix the root cause!!

Given the fact that this is the only "first world" nation where this regularly happens, how could you possibly argue that the easy access to firearms (and notably high-grade firearms) is NOT a root cause for what is happening?

Edited October 27, 2023 by VakAttack

[headshuck]

Americans have easy access to everything!

[Bigbrog]

4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Given the fact that this is the only "first world" nation where this regularly happens, how could you possibly argue that the easy access to firearms (and notably high-grade firearms) is NOT a root cause for what is happening?

Good question, easy, because it is an inanimate object.  We need to address all the things that cause a human being to take a gun, or any other object, and slaughter other human beings for no apparent reason.

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, Bigbrog said:

Good question, easy, because it is an inanimate object.  We need to address all the things that cause a human being to take a gun, or any other object, and slaughter other human beings for no apparent reason.

This logic of course falls apart with even the slightest scrutiny.  Nuclear weapons and tanks are inanimate objects to.  Should people just be allowed to possess those, also?  We restrict access to inanimate objects ALL THE TIME, mostly to make society safer.  Drugs are inanimate objects.  So are cars. On and on.

[Bigbrog]

Just now, VakAttack said:

This logic of course falls apart with even the slightest scrutiny.  Nuclear weapons and tanks are inanimate objects to.  Should people just be allowed to possess those, also?  We restrict access to inanimate objects ALL THE TIME, mostly to make society safer.  Drugs are inanimate objects.  So are cars. On and on.

I think using nuclear weapons and tanks as logic falls apart pretty quickly as well.  No one on here ever has argued for the general population to own military weapons...we are talking about guns....and all the guns available to the general population are just that, guns...NOT military weapons.  Guns are in fact an inanimate object, no?  It is a mentally ill/psychopath that takes that inanimate object and uses it to kill people.  Why they do that and what leads them to do that are the questions we need to figure out...in the meantime, let's get this particular inanimate object out of their hands and just hope they don't just use something else to kill people until they can get the help they clearly need.

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

I think using nuclear weapons and tanks as logic falls apart pretty quickly as well.  No one on here ever has argued for the general population to own military weapons...we are talking about guns....and all the guns available to the general population are just that, guns...NOT military weapons.  Guns are in fact an inanimate object, no?  It is a mentally ill/psychopath that takes that inanimate object and uses it to kill people.  Why they do that and what leads them to do that are the questions we need to figure out...in the meantime, let's get this particular inanimate object out of their hands and just hope they don't just use something else to kill people until they can get the help they clearly need.

So now you're agreeing that we can restrict access to some inanimate objects, but just not these particular ones.  Ok, we're getting somewhere.  You pushed back on nuclear weapons and tanks, but didn't mention regular cars.  Why should we restrict access to cars but not guns? 

As to your last question, because we literally have evidence (see: EVERY OTHER "DEVELOPED NATION") to show us that, if the access to these particular inanimate objects was restricted, the numbers of people killed would be dramatically reduced.

[neutral]

40 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims families!

How did I know someone was going to post this insincere cliche?

[WrestlingRasta]

17 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Wish more people spent their time addressing root cause of this issue rather than blaming an inanimate object.  We have a mental health crisis versus an AR crisis...hell, half of you blaming an inanimate object don't even know what an AR is.  Fix the root cause!!

You're kinda doing the same thing, just using the emphasis on 'inanimate object' as if that makes it impossible to be a part of the issue.  But none the less literally making it one vs the other, and then very authoritive in claiming you know the one where it ends and begins. 

 The glorification of that inanimate object is one (there is more than just one) root cause.  As evidenced by the number of times it is the weapon of choice when someone wants to do a whole lot of damage to random unknown people in a short period of time; as evidenced when it is the pin of choice for some people who have the power to actually address the issues, while throwing pins honoring slain children in the trash can, and also evidenced by those who have the ability to address the issues, taking family holiday pictures with their elementary aged children not with 9mm or hunting shotguns, but fully strapped with these mass murderer's weapon of choice, after they evolved into the mass murderers weapon of choice, as some kind of statement. These are actual things that happened, by our leaders, not examples of media fear mongering.

Guns, access to, and glorification is absolutely one component of the issue.  Mental illness is also absolutely one component of the issue.  The difference?  I don't see anyone denying that mental illness is one component of the issue.  What I do see is people hell bent on denying the guns have anything to do with the issue. Anytime someone tries to bring up both, the focus is only on 'you are trying to take my guns!!!!' 

And if you/we can continue to vehemently deny that the guns (and access and glorification of) are a part of the problem, and continually try to equate gun reform and restrictions to a total annihilation of the second amendment (which specifically mentions 'well regulated') because you think it strengthens your argument, you can't be taken seriously when you say you care about addressing the problem.  In that scenario you only care about addressing your problem, which is how can I get my rifle without any inconvenience.  

But again, just another example of so many of us today where we can't have a view on something unless it's an extreme all or nothing view.  And while we're doing that, we'll continue to go anonymously online and tell everyone how the country is getting more and more fu***d up, and who's to blame (which is to say regurgitating what we're being told to say).

**I use 'you' in the general sense, not direct

[Plasmodium]

24 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Great questions...guns (they are all guns and not some made up media term to scare people) should NOT be sold to mentally ill people!!  The right to own guns are one of the reasons we are a free country.  

Apart from perhaps Maine, this will not result in a single change to restrict the availability of assault weapons to the mentally ill.  Or anyone else.

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

So now you're agreeing that we can restrict access to some inanimate objects, but just not these particular ones.  Ok, we're getting somewhere.  You pushed back on nuclear weapons and tanks, but didn't mention regular cars.  Why should we restrict access to cars but not guns? 

As to your last question, because we literally have evidence (see: EVERY OTHER "DEVELOPED NATION") to show us that, if the access to these particular inanimate objects was restricted, the numbers of people killed would be dramatically reduced.

We actually have direct evidence of that in our own nation.