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Hot Seat 2024?


ThreePointTakedown

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7 hours ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

I wish we could have kept Bobby Douglas in the coaching ranks for longer.   Arizona State's rise to the 1988 NCAA D1 championship (behind him) was historic.   It's the ONLY time any college wrestling team west of the Rockies has won it all at the NCAA D1 level.   

https://thesundevils.com/news/2020/1/9/-asuwrestling-to-honor-hall-of-fame-coach-bobby-douglas-at-sun-devil-duals.aspx

Bobby_Douglas_9.JPG&width=942&type=jpeg

    Cal. State Bakersfield admittedly did well at the (I guess D2) level decades ago but Coach Douglas showed it could be done at the D1 level out there.   He went on to recruit Cael Sanderson from the West and help produce that history-maker at Iowa State.    Perhaps Coach Douglas had another run left in him upon handing the Cyclone head coaching baton to Cael.   I'd like to think he'd have focused on frontier-opening endeavors, post-Iowa State, but I don't know what those might have been.  Any thoughts?

  

Steve Sanderson was passed over for the BYU job, they went with Mark Schultz. Keep in mind that the program was not fully funded and didn't have a full time assistant. I am not sure why Schultz would want a job that like that, but that was his choice. Steve was so upset about BYU picking Schultz that he swore "his boys would NOT go to BYU!" 

Imagine if the Sanderson boys had gone to BYU or another school out west. Would the landscape out west be different today? Would BYU, Boise State, and UC Davis still have a program? 

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4 hours ago, Gus said:

I did not make the statement based on last years performance but more so Eggum's full body of work. The expectation for the Gophers should be to be a top 5 team semi-regularly. 

 

Year Coach Duals Big Ten NCAA
         
2000-01 J Robinson 19-1-0 1st 1st
2001-02 J Robinson 19-0-0 1st 1st
2002-03 J Robinson 17-5-0 1st 2nd
2003-04 J Robinson 12-6-0 2nd 8th
2004-05 J Robinson 9-9-0 2nd 5th
2005-06 J Robinson 20-1-0 1st 2nd
2006-07 J Robinson 20-1-0 1st 1st
2007-08 J Robinson 14-7-0 2nd 10th
2008-09 J Robinson 15-8-0 5th T-14th
2009-10 J Robinson 12-5-0 2nd 7th
2010-11 J Robinson 15-4-1 3rd 7th
2011-12 J Robinson 14-3-0 2nd 2nd
2012-13 J Robinson 16-2-0 T-2nd* 3rd
2013-14 J Robinson 14-1-0 3rd* 2nd
2014-15 J Robinson 12-3-0 3rd 8th
2015-16 J Robinson 10-8-0 9th 17th
2016-17 Brandon Eggum 7-5-0 5th 7th
2017-18 Brandon Eggum 10-8-0 7th 17th
2018-19 Brandon Eggum 14-3-0 4th 8th
2019-20  Brandon Eggum 9-8-0 8th Canceled/Covid
2020-21 Brandon Eggum 7-2-0 5th T-7th
2021-22 Brandon Eggum 4-6-0 6th 11th
2022-23 Brandon Eggum 12-3-0 6th 15th

As much as J did for the program, everyone knows things were kind of a mess the last couple years and a tough situation for the current staff to inherit.  They have turned the corner with the classes of '23, '24, and a good start to '25. Top 5 again very soon.

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11 hours ago, MNRodent said:

As much as J did for the program, everyone knows things were kind of a mess the last couple years and a tough situation for the current staff to inherit.  They have turned the corner with the classes of '23, '24, and a good start to '25. Top 5 again very soon.

I agree that things were kind of a mess when Eggum inherited. We are going into year 8 now so it’s time to make the jump for the gophers. Maybe the expectations in Minny are not as high as I have perceived them to be. 

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I would think the seat is getting hot for Bono in Madison. The AD has shown he will make moves if not improving (i.e. Cryst, Granato) He wants winners in Madison. Bono is the ultimate hype man, but hype doesn't produce results. At this point he's a younger version of Barry Davis without a National Champion under his belt 

On top of that Wisconsin's top talent is leaving 

The leash is short in my opinion. 

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17 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

NIU literally had an AA last year (Olejnik) and another guy (Feldkamp) that AA'd after transferring. 

My mistake. Good job O. The other guy doesn't count, could've been NIU holding him back for whatever reason. And 15 years between AA's. Not impressive. Not top tier talent coming to Dekalb but a roster of 40ish should produce a few gems at least every half decade. Getting the leftover talent from Illinois and surrounding states. Even CMU has gotten a few AA's, UNI, App State, Edinboro, Clarion, Rider, similar situations. Get some more guys to day 3. A free trip to nationals to stay out late friday night is not the goal. 

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1 hour ago, HungusMungus said:

I would think the seat is getting hot for Bono in Madison. The AD has shown he will make moves if not improving (i.e. Cryst, Granato) He wants winners in Madison. Bono is the ultimate hype man, but hype doesn't produce results. At this point he's a younger version of Barry Davis without a National Champion under his belt 

On top of that Wisconsin's top talent is leaving 

The leash is short in my opinion. 

Wisconsin's top talent has been leaving for decades! The only change is if Bono wants black mats the fans won't mind. 

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52 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

My mistake. Good job O. The other guy doesn't count, could've been NIU holding him back for whatever reason. And 15 years between AA's. Not impressive. Not top tier talent coming to Dekalb but a roster of 40ish should produce a few gems at least every half decade. Getting the leftover talent from Illinois and surrounding states. Even CMU has gotten a few AA's, UNI, App State, Edinboro, Clarion, Rider, similar situations. Get some more guys to day 3. A free trip to nationals to stay out late friday night is not the goal. 

Ludwig has been there over 15 years. He needs to go. I have spoken to a few NIU guys and he made them hate the sport. I think he has been getting the leftover talent from Illinois and that could be part of the problem. Stop signing D3 kids to a D1 program. Go get some PA kids, at least they know how to get up off the bottom! 

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1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

My mistake. Good job O. The other guy doesn't count, could've been NIU holding him back for whatever reason. And 15 years between AA's. Not impressive. Not top tier talent coming to Dekalb but a roster of 40ish should produce a few gems at least every half decade. Getting the leftover talent from Illinois and surrounding states. Even CMU has gotten a few AA's, UNI, App State, Edinboro, Clarion, Rider, similar situations. Get some more guys to day 3. A free trip to nationals to stay out late friday night is not the goal. 

It wasn't 15 years between AA's, they had one in 2021 also. They have consistently had kids in the blood round. 

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11 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

Did Coach Seay really break sufficiently clear rules?  (I ask this sincerely, not rhetorically).   And was his dismissal warranted?   At any rate, may he R.I.P.   

Here's wat I know and it ain't much. I think Seay was dismissed in '91, and then in '93 Oklahoma State was not allowed to compete in the NCAA tournament. I don't recall the details of that '93 sanction and if it was anything that went back to issues under Seay's watch. 

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16 minutes ago, TexRef said:

Ludwig has been there over 15 years. He needs to go. I have spoken to a few NIU guys and he made them hate the sport. I think he has been getting the leftover talent from Illinois and that could be part of the problem. Stop signing D3 kids to a D1 program. Go get some PA kids, at least they know how to get up off the bottom! 

 No PA kid is going to move halfway across the country just to end up in the cornfields of DeKalb. And the D1 Illinois kids don't want to end up at NIU when they can go literally anywhere but a town 50 miles past the end of the suburbs. Poeta is having a brutal time at the marquee state school so I am unsure if even a hotshot assistant the likes of Ramos could make headway.

NIU (and EIU back in the day) are where you go if you are only a state placer/1x champ/small school champ but want to keep wrestling while also staying close to home without paying Elmhurst or Wheaton tuition. Otherwise you quit wrestling and go to any of the B1G schools for the best 4 years of your life.

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48 minutes ago, 11986 said:

Here's wat I know and it ain't much. I think Seay was dismissed in '91, and then in '93 Oklahoma State was not allowed to compete in the NCAA tournament. I don't recall the details of that '93 sanction and if it was anything that went back to issues under Seay's watch. 

Here's an upbeat article on Coach Seay's career & contributions to wrestling, published after his passing in 2019:
 

Anyhow I think I recall that Pat Smith won the NCAAs four times, including in 1993.   So perhaps Oklahoma State wasn't banned from NCAA participation, at least not during 1993.   

I also vaguely recall that Coach Seay was accused of wrongdoing because:

his athletes made money off of wrestling camps

Had the internet been active back then, would that charge have been allowed to stand by the scrutinizing wrestling community?   It doesn't seem illegal for a head coach to allow that, and even less nowadays.   Or am I mistaken?

    At any rate, were the NCAA's rules sufficiently prohibiting of what Coach Seay was accused of doing?   Or did the NCAA surprise him with back-room-generated interpretations of rules, meant to give the NCAA power over our (sometimes uppity) sport?    Coach Seay was surely upset with the demise of NCAA D1 wrestling in his native Kansas.   The NCAA might have needed a way to cancel leaders such as him, rather than risk the emergence of litigation that has more recently clamped down not only on the NCAA but also (independently) on bureaucrats' inventing rules based on (conveniently vague) interpretations of rules as part of bureaucrats' possible money & power grabs.     


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38 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

Here's an upbeat article on Coach Seay's career & contributions to wrestling, published after his passing in 2019:
 

Anyhow I think I recall that Pat Smith won the NCAAs four times, including in 1993.   So perhaps Oklahoma State wasn't banned from NCAA participation, at least not during 1993.   

I also vaguely recall that Coach Seay was accused of wrongdoing because:

his athletes made money off of wrestling camps

Had the internet been active back then, would that charge have been allowed to stand by the scrutinizing wrestling community?   It doesn't seem illegal for a head coach to allow that, and even less nowadays.   Or am I mistaken?

    At any rate, were the NCAA's rules sufficiently prohibiting of what Coach Seay was accused of doing?   Or did the NCAA surprise him with back-room-generated interpretations of rules, meant to give the NCAA power over our (sometimes uppity) sport?    Coach Seay was surely upset with the demise of NCAA D1 wrestling in his native Kansas.   The NCAA might have needed a way to cancel leaders such as him, rather than risk the emergence of litigation that has more recently clamped down not only on the NCAA but also (independently) on bureaucrats' inventing rules based on (conveniently vague) interpretations of rules as part of bureaucrats' possible money & power grabs.     


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Pat Smith did not win/wrestle in the 93 tournament.  That was the year Ok State was banned.  Since Smith wrestled/won as a Freshman, he was able to redshirt in 93.  Others who did not have a redshirt to burn that year either transferred (e.g., Jaworsky) or lost a year (e.g., Fried).  

The supposed wrongdoings I have heard about that led to the ban seem relatively innocuous.  I don't recall previously hearing about money earned at camps, instead it was wrestlers in redshirt or otherwise not on the roster traveling to opens using team funds.  Or something like that.

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39 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

Here's an upbeat article on Coach Seay's career & contributions to wrestling, published after his passing in 2019:
 

Anyhow I think I recall that Pat Smith won the NCAAs four times, including in 1993.   So perhaps Oklahoma State wasn't banned from NCAA participation, at least not during 1993.   

I also vaguely recall that Coach Seay was accused of wrongdoing because:

his athletes made money off of wrestling camps

Had the internet been active back then, would that charge have been allowed to stand by the scrutinizing wrestling community?   It doesn't seem illegal for a head coach to allow that, and even less nowadays.   Or am I mistaken?

    At any rate, were the NCAA's rules sufficiently prohibiting of what Coach Seay was accused of doing?   Or did the NCAA surprise him with back-room-generated interpretations of rules, meant to give the NCAA power over our (sometimes uppity) sport?    Coach Seay was surely upset with the demise of NCAA D1 wrestling in his native Kansas.   The NCAA might have needed a way to cancel leaders such as him, rather than risk the emergence of litigation that has more recently clamped down not only on the NCAA but also (independently) on bureaucrats' inventing rules based on (conveniently vague) interpretations of rules as part of bureaucrats' possible money & power grabs.     


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I think they also got in trouble because redshirt wrestlers had transportation and lodging provided by the team. Seay instructed the wrestlers to lie and not tell the investigators the truth initially and then by the time that they told the truth they had pissed of the NCAA so much that they were made an example of. The punishment didn’t necessarily fit the crime, but they were not honest up front and it cost them. They lost Jaworsky because of this. The guys that had redshirts available (like pat smith) stuck around and used their redshirt. Some guys (like Alan Fried) were super loyal and stuck around despite losing a year of eligibility. 

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1 hour ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

I would be fascinated to know how...   After all, once that malaise sets in, it's hard to exterminate it.

Don't know much about the current guy but Grant had a reputation for running, literally and figuratively, guys off the team. If it is the case, maybe that's where he picked it up.

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55 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

 

Anyhow I think I recall that Pat Smith won the NCAAs four times, including in 1993.   So perhaps Oklahoma State wasn't banned from NCAA participation, at least not during 1993.   

 

as Broomstick posted, Smith did not win in '93 as they did not compete in the NCAA tournament or even the Big 8 tournament that year. Pat won his titles in '90, '91, '92, and '94. 

trivial - a HS 'mate of mine had his picture in AWN during the 90 tournament. It was a pic of Pat Smith pinning him. 

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1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

 No PA kid is going to move halfway across the country just to end up in the cornfields of DeKalb. And the D1 Illinois kids don't want to end up at NIU when they can go literally anywhere but a town 50 miles past the end of the suburbs. Poeta is having a brutal time at the marquee state school so I am unsure if even a hotshot assistant the likes of Ramos could make headway.

NIU (and EIU back in the day) are where you go if you are only a state placer/1x champ/small school champ but want to keep wrestling while also staying close to home without paying Elmhurst or Wheaton tuition. Otherwise you quit wrestling and go to any of the B1G schools for the best 4 years of your life.

Not wrong. 

Need to do better building with what you have. Grassroots!

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4 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Not wrong. 

Need to do better building with what you have. Grassroots!

It's less grassroots and more "if I'm going to college I don't want to stay home." That's a big hurdle to overcome considering NIU isn't exactly known for its stellar academics. Kids can get into Iowa with the same test scores and be given in-state tuition. Smart kids get into Illinois, Michigan, or Indiana for B-school/music. All those are better experiences than NIU. It's a big hurdle.

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It's definitely a hurdle but if Central Michigan and Northern Iowa were able to get to that next level with similar issues, there's no reason to think NIU can't get there right the right coaching and recruiting.  I don't think settling for the status quo is what should be done in Dekalb...

Edited by Gantry
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28 minutes ago, Gantry said:

It's definitely a hurdle but if Central Michigan and Northern Iowa were able to get to that next level with similar issues, there's no reason to think NIU can't get there right the right coaching and recruiting.  I don't think settling for the status quo is what should be done in Dekalb...

What are reasonable expectations for NIU? Obviously 2 AA's over 20 years isn't good, just curious what you would want to expect from the program.

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52 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

It's less grassroots and more "if I'm going to college I don't want to stay home." That's a big hurdle to overcome considering NIU isn't exactly known for its stellar academics. Kids can get into Iowa with the same test scores and be given in-state tuition. Smart kids get into Illinois, Michigan, or Indiana for B-school/music. All those are better experiences than NIU. It's a big hurdle.

The Iowa-Illinois tuition reciprocity ended a couple years ago.

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Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals.

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