Did Zain Retherford have a better career than Spencer Lee?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Pretty similar credentials, not even factoring in freestyle.  Can one argue that Spencer had a better career than Zain?  And Zain is NEVER mentioned as a GOAT wrestler.

 

Zain:

127-3, ended career on 95 match win streak.  0 losses by bonus

54 career falls, 22 TFs, 20 MD.

3x NCAA champ, 5th as a true freshman

2x Hodge Trophy winner

 

Spencer:

98-6, ended career with loss and 2 MFF.  2 losses by bonus (FALL Piccinnini; FALL Ramos)

37 career falls, 33 TFs, 16 MD.

3x NCAA champ, 6th as a sixth year senior

2x Hodge Trophy winner

Edited May 26, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[RandolphTJones]

Worth a discussion. I say yes. 

Did Bo Nickal have a better career than both???

[LJB]

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Objection. Asked and answered.

 

 

[Elevator]

Zain is on my list of collegiate GOAT wrestlers.  Not just a champion, but a pinner!

[bnwtwg]

5 hours ago, RandolphTJones said:

Did Bo Nickal have a better career than both???

Definitively yes. So did Nolf and so did Ruth. That's how insane the PSU room has been, is, and will be for the forseeable future. 80s Iowa reincarnate.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Elevator said:

Zain is on my list of collegiate GOAT wrestlers.  Not just a champion, but a pinner!

a list of GOATs ... but ... 

[flyingcement]

8 minutes ago, ionel said:

a list of GOATs ... but ... 

[ionel]

22 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

ahh 

[CHROMEBIRD]

Div. I wrestling is hard.

[KennyEBHS]

Yes.

[Paul158]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:22 AM, RandolphTJones said:

Worth a discussion. I say yes. 

Did Bo Nickal have a better career than both???

Yes!!!!!

[Husker_Du]

Zain > 

and i don't even see the argument otherwise. 

[Husker_Du]

also, spencer's MFF in his last two matches should count on his record. (as should all MFF's (especially in non-opens)

98-8 imo

[Jason Bryant]

also, spencer's MFF in his last two matches should count on his record. (as should all MFF's (especially in non-opens)
98-8 imo

Then you’d have (hypothetically of course) to tack on a few more since he also MFF at Midlands a time or two, right?

As far as the question, yes, Zain had the better college career.

[Waterloo]

I think a lot of folks credit Spencer with a fourth title, which he would have won but for his injuries— and not without reason. Also, he had an even higher bonus rate than Zain. 

[Threadkilla]

4 minutes ago, Waterloo said:

I think a lot of folks credit Spencer with a fourth title, which he would have won but for his injuries— and not without reason. Also, he had an even higher bonus rate than Zain. 

I don't think anyone with half a brain credits him with a 4th title.  The injury excuse is for wussies.  He beat everyone on his way to the semi's where he met a kid that gameplanned for him.   Spencer was winning in the third period when he got decked.  Also,  Zain had nearly Spencers career winnings in a row.   Zain had the better career.  

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, Waterloo said:

I think a lot of folks credit Spencer with a fourth title, which he would have won but for his injuries— and not without reason. Also, he had an even higher bonus rate than Zain. 

No one (well maybe you) credits him with 4 NCs.  Do any credit Gable with 3, do any credit Hutton as the first 4x undefeated NC?  Those 2 actually completed the tournament.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

I think the right way to say it is everyone projected the fourth title.

The question we debated here and on HR was where would Lee rank among four timers. We collectively had the mindset he would win four. It is then very hard to start thinking of him as somewhere below other three timers when we were talking about him being better than some four timers just a day, or a week, or a month earlier.

Assimilating new information and using it to replace prior knowledge is difficult.

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, Waterloo said:

I think a lot of folks credit Spencer with a fourth title, which he would have won but for his injuries— and not without reason. Also, he had an even higher bonus rate than Zain. 

But a lower total of pinfalls and a lower rate of pinfalls.

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

pinfalls and pinfalls

Wkn being redundantly redundant.

Edited May 28, 2023 by ionel

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Wkn being redundantly redundant.

Pinfalls are never redundant. 

[Husker_Du]

3 hours ago, Waterloo said:

I think a lot of folks credit Spencer with a fourth title, which he would have won but for his injuries— and not without reason. Also, he had an even higher bonus rate than Zain. 

and a worse winning %

[ionel]

16 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Pinfalls are never redundant. 

You've said that before.

[Offthemat]

Who got the first takedowncontrol?