Attendance numbers at the open

[Caveira]

They are all from flo except The one with the words.   That one is some dude in minnows group.   There were a few that were bigger and the site didn’t want to let me upload.   Stands look full all around in this gable vid ?

https://fb.watch/keLfAJxb_U/?mibextid=q5o4bk
 

that under hook sumo push-out at the 30ish second mark is awe inspiring btw.  Think they left that off the highlight reel.  Gonna make folks style so much better. 

[DJT]

11 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

the 80's called , they want their foreign policy back

or something like that

another great argument you just made 

the sad thing... even if we did wrestle FS our whole lives... we still wouldn't understand the interpretations we get... many coaches who have coached for decades still shake their heads... and not just from US refs

see kolat, mc, and a host of others

but yeah.. you maybe have some kids to invite to a drag show? 

Ease up on the Bud Light, Dylan. 

Do you honestly understand any ref’s interpretation of stalling? The most honest interpretation I’ve heard from a ref is, “I don’t know how to describe porn, but I know it when I see it, and the same goes for stalling.” However, each ref’s interpretation of stalling seems to depend on who is winning, how loud the crowd is, how much time is on the clock, whether Tom Brands knows his home address and/or place of employment, etc.

[Caveira]

I even asked chat gpt.   This was the answer. 
 

In the United States, folkstyle wrestling is generally considered to be more popular than freestyle wrestling. This is evidenced by the higher attendance numbers at the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Wrestling Championship, which features folkstyle wrestling, compared to the United States Senior Open Wrestling Championships, which features freestyle wrestling.

For example, in 2021, the NCAA Wrestling Championship had an attendance of 16,285 for the finals session, while the United States Senior Open Wrestling Championships had an attendance of 2,500 for the finals session. Similarly, in 2019, the NCAA Wrestling Championship had an attendance of 18,950 for the finals session, while the United States Senior Open Wrestling Championships had an attendance of 1,000 for the finals session.

These attendance numbers suggest that more people in the United States are interested in watching folkstyle wrestling than freestyle wrestling. However, it's worth noting that these tournaments cater to different audiences, as the NCAA Wrestling Championship is focused on college wrestling, while the United States Senior Open Wrestling Championships is focused on senior-level freestyle wrestling.
 

[Jason Bryant]

[VakAttack]

15 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

disingenuous b/c he took the pics from the stream, with the cameras pointed where no one was.

attendance was significantly up. everyone here was talking about it.

you can say you like folkstyle more. you can say americans likfe folkstyle more.

but attendance was up.

 

Attendance was way up, specifically for MFS.  As has been stated many times, the reason the NCAA tournament (and only the NCAA tournament) significantly outdraws the US Open (as far as tournaments; several duals also outdraw) is because of the team affiliations.  We are a tribal country, we respond to laundry more than individuals, typically.  Anybody who has watched both arguing that folkstyle has MORE action than Freestyle is ridiculous.  Somebody may prefer folkstyle, but to argue it has more action?

[ionel]

41 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

but to argue it has more action?

did you watch marstaller v ringer? 

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

did you watch marstaller v ringer? 

Lol, fair.  On the whole, there's more action.

[Scouts Honor]

17 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

That wasn't the OP's argument. but yours is totally off base as well. 

why would 'action' be up?

no rules were changed. you're comparing freestyle in '22 to freestyle in '23 when it sounds like you want to compare FS to the possibly changed folk rules.

to be clear, i'm kinda on the fence about some of the folk rule proposals but i don't understand the questions you're asking

yes, im sorry. I was unclear about my intentions.

I am referring to people who want the pushout in folkstyle.

I dont think it has really increased action.

it has increased scoring... but it has also changed wrestling technique and not for the better 

[Scouts Honor]

12 hours ago, DJT said:

Ease up on the Bud Light, Dylan. 

Do you honestly understand any ref’s interpretation of stalling? The most honest interpretation I’ve heard from a ref is, “I don’t know how to describe porn, but I know it when I see it, and the same goes for stalling.” However, each ref’s interpretation of stalling seems to depend on who is winning, how loud the crowd is, how much time is on the clock, whether Tom Brands knows his home address and/or place of employment, etc.

i dont disagree really

but we all KNOW , that stalling isn't going to get called to decide a match... at least not very often

[Scouts Honor]

17 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

disingenuous b/c he took the pics from the stream, with the cameras pointed where no one was.

attendance was significantly up. everyone here was talking about it.

you can say you like folkstyle more. you can say americans likfe folkstyle more.

but attendance was up.

 

again, i apologize... i thought you were referring to my post.

yes i agree, the pics he posted weren't representative

[Eagle26]

It’s pretty simple… freestyle is more action packed and more exciting to watch. Just look at the matches as whole. How many come from behind wins were there?! You can’t just sit in a lead or ride a guy out in freestyle. This is also one of the underrated benefits of the step out… it’s hard to take someone down but now there’s another way score so it creates more action.

Folk style has more of a traditional following and as others have mentioned the team following in the NCAA is the big thing. Which is another reason to put more emphasis on duals. So while folk style is still clearly more popular, it’s definitely not more exciting to watch right now. It could be though. It wasn’t that long ago that freestyle wrestling was relatively boring to watch too.

[Scouts Honor]

what if we treated the rtc's like a pro team with a salary cap... and they competed in duals...

i know its been tried before... but those weren't affiliated with a school 

 

 

[Scouts Honor]

1 minute ago, Eagle26 said:

 This is also one of the underrated benefits of the step out… it’s hard to take someone down but now there’s another way score so it creates more action.
 

so you are saying b/c it might be easier to score more guys are taking the risk and shooting? 

this could be true... i still would like to see some data

there were lots of come from behind wins... but most times i attribute that to the guy who was behind finally started to wrestle 

[Eagle26]

so you are saying b/c it might be easier to score more guys are taking the risk and shooting? 
this could be true... i still would like to see some data
there were lots of come from behind wins... but most times i attribute that to the guy who was behind finally started to wrestle 

No I’m saying if it’s folk style, it’s tied and you take him down with a minute left all we get to see is a ride out. In freestyle, you can’t shut down at all because you aren’t just riding out or even just defending a takedown… you can’t even step out of bounds!

[Eagle26]

what if we treated the rtc's like a pro team with a salary cap... and they competed in duals...
i know its been tried before... but those weren't affiliated with a school 
 
 

I like the idea… NLWC wouldn’t like the salary cap idea though ;-)

[Offthemat]

There are no points awarded for escape in FS and how can the guy on top stall if the guy on bottom isn’t stalling also?

54 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

so you are saying b/c it might be easier to score more guys are taking the risk and shooting? 

this could be true... i still would like to see some data

there were lots of come from behind wins... but most times i attribute that to the guy who was behind finally started to wrestle 

I think it’s more often attributable to the poorer wrestler being in better shape. 

[Scouts Honor]

1 minute ago, Offthemat said:

There are no points awarded for escape in FS and how can the guy on top stall if the guy on bottom isn’t stalling also?

I think it’s more often attributable to the poorer wrestler being in better shape. 

thats a possibility for sure...

is brooks not as good as valencia? yes valencia has no lungs... but brooks really didn't do much until the 2nd

im not sure about the others

[Scouts Honor]

53 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

No I’m saying if it’s folk style, it’s tied and you take him down with a minute left all we get to see is a ride out. In freestyle, you can’t shut down at all because you aren’t just riding out or even just defending a takedown… you can’t even step out of bounds!

i think its still exciting.. b/c in folk, the people rooting for the bottom guy are hoping he gets out.

its not that easy to ride out...

 

[SoonerKing]

NCAAs are well attended for 2 things stated. Support of school and sessions are short. Our pinnacle event is perfect for any spectator and even casual fans are good with it as there 2.5 hours. Break for 4 hours and back cheering again. It's the only event in wrestling set up for fan experience. Our kid events have more matches in 1 day than NCAAs over 3 days. Now we can't run high school events and kid events like NCAAs but a BIG reason it is so well attended is directly attributed to how it is set up for fans to eat and drink between sessions and late at night with late morning start times. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by SoonerKing

[strange_daze]

I agree that the team aspect of NCAAs has a big impact on who follows and who actually attends events. More than that, we have compelling storylines of college students who are coming into their own, and the NCAA tournament, itself, is a grand spectacle. I think the freestyle storylines are of interest, too, but they get a bit 'washed out' when we have so many super-studs competing against one another in a quick-paced tournament format. (Gable is a good example, this year, of how a story breaks through the noise.) From a more pragmatic angle: I enjoy attending the NCAA tournament for many reasons, and I'd love to travel to freestyle tournaments like the US Open. Ultimately, though, it's a lot of time and money to invest (e.g., away from family and work), and I personally can't do both events--which is why I pay FLO and visit these boards. I think it's an awesome time to be a wrestling fan, regardless of style. So much content, so little time.

[Scouts Honor]

6 minutes ago, strange_daze said:

I agree that the team aspect of NCAAs has a big impact on who follows and who actually attends events. More than that, we have compelling storylines of college students who are coming into their own, and the NCAA tournament, itself, is a grand spectacle. I think the freestyle storylines are of interest, too, but they get a bit 'washed out' when we have so many super-studs competing against one another in a quick-paced tournament format. (Gable is a good example, this year, of how a story breaks through the noise.) From a more pragmatic angle: I enjoy attending the NCAA tournament for many reasons, and I'd love to travel to freestyle tournaments like the US Open. Ultimately, though, it's a lot of time and money to invest (e.g., away from family and work), and I personally can't do both events--which is why I pay FLO and visit these boards. I think it's an awesome time to be a wrestling fan, regardless of style. So much content, so little time.

i actually was going to type up something like this... and ran out of time.. then forgot about it

maybe we push freeco back a few months... so its not right after NCAA's... this wont always work b/c of UWW schedule... 

if we move NCAA to only spring, this will make a bigger problem i think

but I could attend a summer event after a spring event... just not really two spring events, b/c time, work and money

[mspart]

I'm still trying to figure out the venue argument.  

Is it the venue, the location, the amount of seating, the number of valets?  

mspart

 

[gimpeltf]

35 minutes ago, mspart said:

I'm still trying to figure out the venue argument.  

Venue don't come...

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Attendance was way up, specifically for MFS.  As has been stated many times, the reason the NCAA tournament (and only the NCAA tournament) significantly outdraws the US Open (as far as tournaments; several duals also outdraw) is because of the team affiliations.  We are a tribal country, we respond to laundry more than individuals, typically.  Anybody who has watched both arguing that folkstyle has MORE action than Freestyle is ridiculous.  Somebody may prefer folkstyle, but to argue it has more action?

I mean, the NCAA isn't the ONLY other tournament, every State Tournament from around me sells out for the finals(or very close to it, 16-18K). 

You've still certainly got the team aspect which is probably even more significant in HS. 

I don't know if there's more action or simply more scoring with the push-outs and how easy it is to rack up points in Freestyle.

 

I do just wish we could get more people out to watch the Open, WTTs, Final X. More action or not, it's the highest level of Wrestling we've got.

[KennyEBHS]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:31 PM, billyhoyle said:

The reason there aren't fans in the stands at international events is that most NCAA wrestling fans support their universities, not the athletes. The wrestling product itself is better. 

I agree.