The 4 Timers - Pat, Cael, Logan, Kyle & Yianni

[AgaveMaria]

We have five wrestlers who are 4 time winners.

Three of them are 4 time HS champs. Pat Smith won 3. Kyle won 2. Yianni won 4 out of 5. Cael & Logan were 4 for 4.

What happened in HS to prevent the others from winning every one? Yianni was injured - preventing him winning 5 in HS. Kyle took 2nd one year - but did not win 4. Can't see what Pat Smith did - was 3 the norm at the time or did he get beat, was ill or injured?

Am sure a few of the perfect records for 3 time NCAA champs from the past would have been 4 timers but they did not get the chance.

So, back to High School. What happened to prevent these few above from winning it all in HS every season?

Also - how come Diakomihalis is called Yianni but was born John Michael Diakomihalis? Name Change? Mistake in the records?

Yep, it is the off season - so why not start looking for most anything wrestling...

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

We have five wrestlers who are 4 time winners.

Three of them are 4 time HS champs. Pat Smith won 3. Kyle won 2. Yianni won 4 out of 5. Cael & Logan were 4 for 4.

What happened in HS to prevent the others from winning every one? Yianni was injured - preventing him winning 5 in HS. Kyle took 2nd one year - but did not win 4. Can't see what Pat Smith did - was 3 the norm at the time or did he get beat, was ill or injured?

Am sure a few of the perfect records for 3 time NCAA champs from the past would have been 4 timers but they did not get the chance.

So, back to High School. What happened to prevent these few above from winning it all in HS every season?

Also - how come Diakomihalis is called Yianni but was born John Michael Diakomihalis? Name Change? Mistake in the records?

Yep, it is the off season - so why not start looking for most anything wrestling...

Diakomihalis family if very Greek.  "Yianni " is "John" in Greek.  His birth name is John,  but some relatives called him "Yianni" as a nickname when he was young, and it stuck.

[Offthemat]

I don’t know about now, but 9th grade used to be a different division than high school in Oklahoma.  Occasionally, like if the high school didn’t have anybody at a certain weight, a 9th grader could wrestle up, but it didn’t happen very often.  City high schools didn’t include 9th grade, but most rural schools did.  

Edited April 25, 2023 by Offthemat

[Gus]

34 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

We have five wrestlers who are 4 time winners.

Three of them are 4 time HS champs. Pat Smith won 3. Kyle won 2. Yianni won 4 out of 5. Cael & Logan were 4 for 4.

What happened in HS to prevent the others from winning every one? Yianni was injured - preventing him winning 5 in HS. Kyle took 2nd one year - but did not win 4. Can't see what Pat Smith did - was 3 the norm at the time or did he get beat, was ill or injured?

Am sure a few of the perfect records for 3 time NCAA champs from the past would have been 4 timers but they did not get the chance.

So, back to High School. What happened to prevent these few above from winning it all in HS every season?

Also - how come Diakomihalis is called Yianni but was born John Michael Diakomihalis? Name Change? Mistake in the records?

Yep, it is the off season - so why not start looking for most anything wrestling...

Snyder was at the OTC his senior season.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Where does Spencer Lee rank among them?  He was basically a 4 timer if not for a fluke pin.

[jchapman]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Where does Spencer Lee rank among them?  He was basically a 4 timer if not for a fluke pin.

2/10

[Perry]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Where does Spencer Lee rank among them?  He was basically a 4 timer if not for a fluke pin.

Below jden cox and Zain Retherford 

[Pinnacle]

33 minutes ago, Perry said:

Below jden cox and Zain Retherford 

Below Nickal and Nolf too. Below Dan Gable and probably several others. 

[Jamie_Taco]

And your guys' obsession with Spencer Lee continues lol.

Of the four wrestlers mentioned ahead of Spencer in this thread, only one would have a legit argument on having a better college career than Spencer and that's Bo.

Forty percent of SL's wins ended in the first period, with 11 falls in under a minute. That means 40 of his 98 wins ended in less than 3 minutes and 11% of them ended in less than 60 seconds.

To even fathom the idea that he's below J'Den, Zain, and Nolf in terms of a college career is truly laughable. Spencer dominated his opponents and got off the mat faster than anyone I can remember, but I get it, you guys don't like Iowa, so carry on lol.

[PortaJohn]

2 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Also - how come Diakomihalis is called Yianni but was born John Michael Diakomihalis? Name Change? Mistake in the records?

Johnny is Yianni in Greek.  Like most languages on this planet Greek doesn't have a hard J 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Johnny is Yianni in Greek.  Like most languages on this planet Greek doesn't have a hard J 

PortaYianni

[PortaJohn]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

PortaYianni

Ha! I like it. Sounds like a new age philosophy  to the 5th dimension 

[11986]

regarding Pat Smith, just as he was the 1st to win 4 NCAA titles, it was also not as common in his era for guys to win 4 HS titles. It was getting more common by then, but still not like now, and if you go back 5-10 years from there it was still a pretty big deal.

Funny I had thought of posting about guys who won more NCAA titles than HS state championships. Some recent discussion on Jim Zalesky made me think about when I looked up his bio. 2 time HS champ in Iowa, 3 time NCAA champ at Iowa with a much better overall record in college than HS

[Perry]

1 hour ago, Jamie_Taco said:

And your guys' obsession with Spencer Lee continues lol.

Of the four wrestlers mentioned ahead of Spencer in this thread, only one would have a legit argument on having a better college career than Spencer and that's Bo.

Forty percent of SL's wins ended in the first period, with 11 falls in under a minute. That means 40 of his 98 wins ended in less than 3 minutes and 11% of them ended in less than 60 seconds.

To even fathom the idea that he's below J'Den, Zain, and Nolf in terms of a college career is truly laughable. Spencer dominated his opponents and got off the mat faster than anyone I can remember, but I get it, you guys don't like Iowa, so carry on lol.

Quality of competition matters. Jden was an Olympic and world medalist before he graduated college without taking a redshirt season. He had wins over the likes of David Taylor and Kyle dake in this same time. Who is Lee's best win? Thomasello or suriano? Both good but nowhere near the levels of dake or Taylor and thomasello traded matches with Lee. Lee is great, but not an all timer. Even his placement record is below cox and the others mentioned. Bonusing his way through the Iowa jv open in 4 minutes mostly means nothing. 

[PSUSMC]

1 hour ago, Jamie_Taco said:

And your guys' obsession with Spencer Lee continues lol.

Of the four wrestlers mentioned ahead of Spencer in this thread, only one would have a legit argument on having a better college career than Spencer and that's Bo.

Forty percent of SL's wins ended in the first period, with 11 falls in under a minute. That means 40 of his 98 wins ended in less than 3 minutes and 11% of them ended in less than 60 seconds.

To even fathom the idea that he's below J'Den, Zain, and Nolf in terms of a college career is truly laughable. Spencer dominated his opponents and got off the mat faster than anyone I can remember, but I get it, you guys don't like Iowa, so carry on lol.

All of those mentioned had better careers than Lee.  *SL was wrestling midgets, runts, 18 year olds and guys on hormone blockers to keep their weight down.

Not even a close comparison to competing against wrestlers at grown man weights!

 

* this isn't true, but it was funny when I thought of it...

[Dark Energy]

3 hours ago, Gus said:

Snyder was at the OTC his senior season.

Why does this matter to the thread?

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I'd say it was Kyle bias.  Thread was talking about Dake, but poster was taking about Snyder.

Taking Sr year at Olympic Training Center in CO could be relevant, if the wrestler had been a HS 3-timer prior and subsequent NCAA 4-timer.

Could become relevant in some future,  I guess.

Similarly, a 4-time national prep champion could be considered relevant to the discussion, if that's not to be considered a 4-time state champion.

Thinking of Aaron Brooks here.  Maybe could've won 5 HS titles in MD.

Edited April 25, 2023 by 98lberEating2Lunches

[Plasmodium]

Regarding Pat Smith - he probably went to Junior High instead of Middle School.  Junior high was 7th - 9th, thus he had no chance to wrestle HS his freshman year.

[Ragu]

4 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Yep, it is the off season - so why not start looking for most anything wrestling...

Its Freco season

[jackwebster]

2 hours ago, 11986 said:

regarding Pat Smith, just as he was the 1st to win 4 NCAA titles, it was also not as common in his era for guys to win 4 HS titles. It was getting more common by then, but still not like now, and if you go back 5-10 years from there it was still a pretty big deal.

Funny I had thought of posting about guys who won more NCAA titles than HS state championships. Some recent discussion on Jim Zalesky made me think about when I looked up his bio. 2 time HS champ in Iowa, 3 time NCAA champ at Iowa with a much better overall record in college than HS

Was Jerry Best before or after Pat Smith? I think he was the first four-timer in Oklahoma. Maybe just the first undefeated four-timer? I could look it up but search is melting our brains.

[AgaveMaria]

5 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Where does Spencer Lee rank among them?  He was basically a 4 timer if not for a fluke pin.

He did not get it done. He was pinned and it wasn't a fluke. Then he quit, ran and hid rather than wrestle back to try for third.

He's an almost. Damn good but when it came down to it - he quit - he wussed out.

[Jamie_Taco]

4 hours ago, Perry said:

Quality of competition matters. Jden was an Olympic and world medalist before he graduated college without taking a redshirt season. He had wins over the likes of David Taylor and Kyle dake in this same time. Who is Lee's best win? Thomasello or suriano? Both good but nowhere near the levels of dake or Taylor and thomasello traded matches with Lee. Lee is great, but not an all timer. Even his placement record is below cox and the others mentioned. Bonusing his way through the Iowa jv open in 4 minutes mostly means nothing. 

You're honestly bringing up freestyle accolades when talking about the best college wrestlers of all time? Brilliant lol.

Also, when did J'den beat DT or Dake in college? I must have missed that. Since the quality of competition matters, as you said, who were J'den's best wins in college? True freshman Kyle Snyder, who he hasn't beaten since? In his three final appearances, Cox beat Nick Heflin, Morgan McIntosh, and Brett Pfarr. Not exactly murderers' row when you're trying to use his competition level as your reasoning.

Here's another thing I forgot to mention:

Hodge Trophies - Spencer 2, J'den 0

James E. Sullivan Award - Spencer 1, J'den 0

Spencer also did all of this with a pair of bum knees. If COVID held off two more weeks, Spencer is a 4xer and this isn't even a discussion but none of you want to admit that. 

[Perry]

54 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said:

You're honestly bringing up freestyle accolades when talking about the best college wrestlers of all time? Brilliant lol.

Also, when did J'den beat DT or Dake in college? I must have missed that. Since the quality of competition matters, as you said, who were J'den's best wins in college? True freshman Kyle Snyder, who he hasn't beaten since? In his three final appearances, Cox beat Nick Heflin, Morgan McIntosh, and Brett Pfarr. Not exactly murderers' row when you're trying to use his competition level as your reasoning.

Here's another thing I forgot to mention:

Hodge Trophies - Spencer 2, J'den 0

James E. Sullivan Award - Spencer 1, J'den 0

Spencer also did all of this with a pair of bum knees. If COVID held off two more weeks, Spencer is a 4xer and this isn't even a discussion but none of you want to admit that. 

Times placing 6th at ncaas lee: 1 cox: zero.

Not playing hypotheticals on the "covid year". Excuses are for wusses and Lee lost because Ramos was the better wrestler (his words)

[mspart]

Well, I remember HS was only 3 seasons, 10-12.   But then I read about Lincoln McIlravy winning 5 HS titles.   I've always wondered about that.   A true demon in 8th grade. 

mspart

[Plasmodium]

22 minutes ago, mspart said:

Well, I remember HS was only 3 seasons, 10-12.   But then I read about Lincoln McIlravy winning 5 HS titles.   I've always wondered about that.   A true demon in 8th grade. 

mspart

I think it is crazy to allow kids who aren't in HS to wrestle in HS.   IIRC, KY and FLA go all the way down to 6th grade.