Cael fought so hard for his preferred team championship format…

[headshuck]

That nobody even notices anymore.

[Wrestleknownothing]

Really? I feel like this comes up often.

[Threadkilla]

Wasn't Cael arguing against the change in the championship structure?

[VakAttack]

What I miss?

[Laxhawk174]

You talking about the proposed rule change regarding reduction of points in consolations at NCAAs? 

[BlacknGold]

Would such a rule change be good for the sport? Consolation matches are already of less importance and get less viewership. Plus, doesn't every wrestler end up in consolation except for 2 guys? It sounds like this rule change ultimately benefits the top 2 wrestlers in every weight class and belittles the rest, not a fan. Cael trying to adjust rules to benefit his top-heavy team, thought he was slick 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, BlacknGold said:

Would such a rule change be good for the sport? Consolation matches are already of less importance and get less viewership. Plus, doesn't every wrestler end up in consolation except for 2 guys? It sounds like this rule change ultimately benefits the top 2 wrestlers in every weight class and belittles the rest, not a fan. Cael trying to adjust rules to benefit his top-heavy team, thought he was slick 

Can someone actually tell me how he did this and what was wrong?

It IS...questionable that you can score more points on the backside than a NC. 

 

The team PSU is putting together...it's not gonna matter how it's scored. Maybe if you get to add up all the points from teams in your state aside from PSU(LeHigh, Pitt, Lock Haven and the like would be one team). 
Maybe that'd make it interesting.

[Threadkilla]

It wasn't about points on the backside.  It was a discussion that started about 10 years ago to decide whether there would be a seperate dual tournament to decide the real team national championship.  There were opposing coaches on both sides,  A couple of Caels's main arguments were that ito change it it could negatively impact attendance at NCAA's and could affect smaller schools with less budget.

"In 2012, when there was a strong push around the nation to have the team title determined by a tournament of duals rather than an accumulation individuals’ performance at the NCAA Championships, Sanderson publicly voiced his opposition multiple times."   He provided 48 seperate points in opposition.  

[D3 for LU]

5 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Can someone actually tell me how he did this and what was wrong?

It IS...questionable that you can score more points on the backside than a NC. 

 

The team PSU is putting together...it's not gonna matter how it's scored. Maybe if you get to add up all the points from teams in your state aside from PSU(LeHigh, Pitt, Lock Haven and the like would be one team). 
Maybe that'd make it interesting.

 ahem...  it's LEHIGH.

D3

[Kansasdeanhwt]

How many duels have psu lost in last 5 years. People act like psu only have 5 good wrestlers. When really they usually have 4-5 great wrestlers and 3 really good and a couple ok guys. No matter the format. Psu would still likely when anyways. 

[PortaJohn]

13 hours ago, headshuck said:

That nobody even notices anymore.

Just curious.  Why is Cael the only one that ever gets mentioned about this subject.  If I recall correctly Tom Brands along with other coaches were with Cael on this matter.

Edited April 15, 2023 by PortaJohn

[Le duke]

How many duels have psu lost in last 5 years. People act like psu only have 5 good wrestlers. When really they usually have 4-5 great wrestlers and 3 really good and a couple ok guys. No matter the format. Psu would still likely when anyways. 

Yeah. Look at their roster from NCAAs. How many schools are taking more than 4 matches from them in March? Likely zero. They went 1-1-2-2-2-3-3-7-NP with their nine qualifiers.

Their “weak” weights were 125 and 165. Their lowest placing guy after that was a former NCAA champion, who took 7th.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jammen]

1 hour ago, PortaJohn said:

Just curious.  Why is Cael the only one that ever gets mentioned about this subject.  If I recall correctly Tom Brands along with other coaches were with Cael on this matter.

https://www.caelsanderson.com/blog/no-to-national-duals/

[jammen]

In 2012 Cael's record at PSU was a measly 1-6-1 versus Minny, Iowa, and Okie St.  That's why he started a frantic campaign to stop any discussion of a team championship.

[98lberEating2Lunches]

18 minutes ago, jammen said:

why he started a frantic campaign

Amazing is the ability to know another's motivation with such resolve.

Was it the frequency (or infrequency) of Cael historically becoming 'frantic' that gave him away?

What is it about his action that makes you to think they were 'frantic?'

And what actions do you think cause the expression of one's opinion to rise to the level of a 'campaign?'

Just maybe you were exaggerating for effect.

Edited April 15, 2023 by 98lberEating2Lunches

[Offthemat]

40 minutes ago, jammen said:

https://www.caelsanderson.com/blog/no-to-national-duals/

Site under maintenance.  Maybe you could summarize?

[Threadkilla]

24 minutes ago, jammen said:

In 2012 Cael's record at PSU was a measly 1-6-1 versus Minny, Iowa, and Okie St.  That's why he started a frantic campaign to stop any discussion of a team championship.

You have to be going back prior to Sanderson to get those numbers. Caels first year in 2010 PSU was 13-6 and lost to Iowa, OK State, OK, Lehigh, tOSU. Minnesota and tied Pitt.   I think you mean to say prior to 2012 PSU had a losing record against those teams.  Because in 2012 PSU was 14-1 and won a national title.   2011 PSU was 17-1-1 and won a National Title.    Nice attempt at skewing the numbers to fit your weak argument.   

 

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, jammen said:

https://www.caelsanderson.com/blog/no-to-national-duals/

Site doesn't work. Again, I'm asking why Cael is the only coach that gets mentioned on this particular subject

[MPhillips]

45 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

Just maybe you were exaggerating for effect.

No shortage of that...

[Threadkilla]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

Site doesn't work. Again, I'm asking why Cael is the only coach that gets mentioned on this particular subject

Because PSU continues to win. and the non PSU fans need an argument point.   I could be wrong but I seem to remember Brands, Kohl, Ryan and John Smith were in opposition as well.  

 

Why change a format that's been in place for 95 years.

[Wrestleknownothing]

41 minutes ago, Threadkilla said:

Because PSU continues to win. and the non PSU fans need an argument point.   I could be wrong but I seem to remember Brands, Kohl, Ryan and John Smith were in opposition as well.  

 

Why change a format that's been in place for 95 years.

It is not often people give the answer first and ask the question last.

[Threadkilla]

23 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It is not often people give the answer first and ask the question last.

 

 

 

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, Threadkilla said:

Because PSU continues to win. and the non PSU fans need an argument point.   I could be wrong but I seem to remember Brands, Kohl, Ryan and John Smith were in opposition as well.  

 

Why change a format that's been in place for 95 years.

Of course but it's more enjoyable getting them to admit it

[jammen]

1 hour ago, Threadkilla said:

You have to be going back prior to Sanderson to get those numbers. Caels first year in 2010 PSU was 13-6 and lost to Iowa, OK State, OK, Lehigh, tOSU. Minnesota and tied Pitt.   I think you mean to say prior to 2012 PSU had a losing record against those teams.  Because in 2012 PSU was 14-1 and won a national title.   2011 PSU was 17-1-1 and won a National Title.    Nice attempt at skewing the numbers to fit your weak argument.   

 

in 2010 lost to Okie St, IA, and Minny

2011 lost to IA, tied Minny

2012 beat IA, lost to Minny

So Cael was 0-2-1 vs Minny, 1-2 vs Iowa, 0-1 vs Okie St for a 1-5-1 record vs the big three at the time.  That is what prompted the blog, letter writing, and campaigning against a dual team championship proposed by the NCAA, voted for by the NWCA, and supported by ESPN.

 

[Formally140]

1 minute ago, jammen said:

in 2010 lost to Okie St, IA, and Minny

2011 lost to IA, tied Minny

2012 beat IA, lost to Minny

So Cael was 0-2-1 vs Minny, 1-2 vs Iowa, 0-1 vs Okie St for a 1-5-1 record vs the big three at the time.  That is what prompted the blog, letter writing, and campaigning against a dual team championship proposed by the NCAA, voted for by the NWCA, and supported by ESPN.

 

This. People can call it “hating” but at the time it occurred it was a very clear case of fighting a rule change because it would hurt his team that year.. not because it he actually had legit reasons 

All the coaches who people have talked about opposing it all had lost to Minnesota. 
 

It’s why it’s so hard to change any rules for the better. Coaches only think short term. It’s the exact same attitude as the coaches who put experienced kids in rookie tournaments. Just in a bigger scale