Chris Ayers

[Antitroll2828]

https://deadspin.com/princeton-wrestling-chris-ayers-ncaa-champion-trenton-1850318558 Great article about a great guy and the amazing turnaround at Princeton …never realized he didn’t place in states in high school but won 120 matches and AAed at Lehigh 

[bnwtwg]

Can’t support the old place, just a bunch of herbs that can’t mute audio on their Farmer’s ads. Defector is Normal Gossip! #accomplice

(These words may mean nothing to most, if not all if you).

[Fletcher]

Does this article get written if Spencer doesn't choke in the semis?

[dragit]

29 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Does this article get written if Spencer doesn't choke in the semis?

It would, with even more fanfare, if Glory beat Spencer in the finals.  Can't remember a robust discussion of what folks thought would have happened if those two had wrestled on Saturday night.  I'm not sure what the odds should have been on that.

[nhs67]

Isn't Spencer like 25-0 against Glory all-time?

[Antitroll2828]

4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Isn't Spencer like 25-0 against Glory all-time?

2-0 both glory true freshman year , after that glory weighed in twice at duals and once at midlands expecting to wrestle Lee and got a backup instead 

[Gus]

11 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

2-0 both glory true freshman year , after that glory weighed in twice at duals and once at midlands expecting to wrestle Lee and got a backup instead 

Weighed in and didn’t make weight once. 

[nhs67]

57 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

2-0 both glory true freshman year , after that glory weighed in twice at duals and once at midlands expecting to wrestle Lee and got a backup instead 

I am just being and anti-you.

No horse, proverbially speaking.

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, dragit said:

It would, with even more fanfare, if Glory beat Spencer in the finals.  Can't remember a robust discussion of what folks thought would have happened if those two had wrestled on Saturday night.  I'm not sure what the odds should have been on that.

That's the match I was looking forward to. I thought Glory had a chance to beat Lee IF he got to the finals.

But hey, maybe the article gets written a few years ago if Matthew Kolodzik doesn't get his RS pulled late in '20 and then lose his chance to Wrestle at a NC.

2021 was when O'Connor and Sasso were in the finals. Odds of him winning that bracket are much higher than the odds of Glory or Monday winning '25 or '65 heading into this past tournament.

 

Either way, it's a cool story and they did get a NC this year. 

[nhs67]

Monday only wrestled this season at 165.

[scourge165]

8 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Monday only wrestled this season at 165.

Right, I'm saying Kolodzik's chances IF he'd wrestled in 2021 were probably higher than Glory or Monday heading into this past years tournament. 

So of the three, he probably would have had the best odds to win a title before the respective tournaments. Not that important, just pointing out they did have a guy who could very well have won a title a couple years ago, but was caught in that baffling decision by the NCAA to give some athletes 5 National Championships and others just 3. 

[nhs67]

19 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Right, I'm saying Kolodzik's chances IF he'd wrestled in 2021 were probably higher than Glory or Monday heading into this past years tournament. 

So of the three, he probably would have had the best odds to win a title before the respective tournaments. Not that important, just pointing out they did have a guy who could very well have won a title a couple years ago, but was caught in that baffling decision by the NCAA to give some athletes 5 National Championships and others just 3. 

Kolodzik was never seeded higher than Glory or Monday were this year, so I think that is an inaccurate assumption.

[scourge165]

13 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Kolodzik was never seeded higher than Glory or Monday were this year, so I think that is an inaccurate assumption.

 

I'd assume if they had a betting line, Kolodzik would have had better odds to win a wide open weight class in 2021(or even moreso then 2020 tourney) than Glory who had Spencer Lee or Monday who had to get past both Carr and O'Toole in order to win a title.

Kolodzik was a 3X AA who'd taken a 3rd, who lost to Ashnault in the Semi's 2-0 and there was no Yianni in that weight.

Kinda baffling how he was the #6 seed in 2020 given he had multiple wins over the #1 seed(Lugo) the #2(O'Connor) and the #4 seed(Mauller) and he was undefeated, but...it's kinda moot at this point given...we didn't wrestled the tournament. 

The POINT was simply that Kolodzik had a chance to win it, he's experienced a great deal of success. It was more in response to the is this article written if not for Ramos.'

[nhs67]

He would have absolutely had a chance to win it.  I agree.

Better chance than the guy who won it, who many people gave a 50-50 chance this year?  No.

Also, his undefeated 6 seed season was shortened.  He didn't beat any of the guys you mentioned that season (which is what actually matters for seeding) and his best win was over Prince in OT.  They don't seed on three season old information.

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

He would have absolutely had a chance to win it.  I agree.

Better chance than the guy who won it, who many people gave a 50-50 chance this year?  No.

Also, his undefeated 6 seed season was shortened.  He didn't beat any of the guys you mentioned that season (which is what actually matters for seeding) and his best win was over Prince in OT.  They don't seed on three season old information.

Spencer Lee was -3000 to win the NCAA title this year. Those are cartoonish odds. People did NOT think it was 50/50 Glory would win it. In fact, it was barely 50/50 Glory vs Ramos.

People talked about MAYBE if someone was going to beat Lee, particularly given what happened when he wrestled Ramos, MAYBE Glory after all day Saturday to get hydrated, MAYBE he might could possibly beat Lee late if EVERYTHING went right. Just like people talked about how Gomez could maybe beat Yianni again. It was never 50/50.

 

And yes, I understand Kolodzik didn't wrestle a full season. I'd said he got his OLY RS pulled late in the season. That was the whole point. He got screwed by the decision to not wrestle the 2020 NC and then give the extra year NOT to the Sr's who Wrestled, but to the incoming Freshmen.

Also, Kolodzik beat Lugo twice, O'Connor and Mauller(twice at the NCAAs) all in 2019 not 3 years before...the same year he lost a close match in the Semis.
But I was never worried about how they seeded the tournament. That was your rationale for why Kolodzik was a bigger longshot. Because he had a lower seed than Glory.

It's like saying Jon Trenge had better odds to win it despite being in a weight with Cael Sanderson than a #6 seed who was undefeated in the prior year vs all those seeded above him simply based on seeds. 

Glory and Monday were both MASSIVE longshots to win it.
Kolodzik had as good of a shot as anyone in his weight class...

[nhs67]

32 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Spencer Lee was -3000 to win the NCAA title this year. Those are cartoonish odds. People did NOT think it was 50/50 Glory would win it. In fact, it was barely 50/50 Glory vs Ramos.

People talked about MAYBE if someone was going to beat Lee, particularly given what happened when he wrestled Ramos, MAYBE Glory after all day Saturday to get hydrated, MAYBE he might could possibly beat Lee late if EVERYTHING went right. Just like people talked about how Gomez could maybe beat Yianni again. It was never 50/50.

 

And yes, I understand Kolodzik didn't wrestle a full season. I'd said he got his OLY RS pulled late in the season. That was the whole point. He got screwed by the decision to not wrestle the 2020 NC and then give the extra year NOT to the Sr's who Wrestled, but to the incoming Freshmen.

Also, Kolodzik beat Lugo twice, O'Connor and Mauller(twice at the NCAAs) all in 2019 not 3 years before...the same year he lost a close match in the Semis.
But I was never worried about how they seeded the tournament. That was your rationale for why Kolodzik was a bigger longshot. Because he had a lower seed than Glory.

It's like saying Jon Trenge had better odds to win it despite being in a weight with Cael Sanderson than a #6 seed who was undefeated in the prior year vs all those seeded above him simply based on seeds. 

Glory and Monday were both MASSIVE longshots to win it.
Kolodzik had as good of a shot as anyone in his weight class...

Even without hindsight Spencer at -3000 was a bad bet.  Many people on here and other outlets gave Glory a very real chance, using the caveat that Lee's health was an unknown.  Ignore that at your pleasure, if you must.

As far as me saying three years, that is a stretch, however you are still ignoring that much of your rationale for a theoretical March 2021 series of matches is coming from a December 2018 match (21-18=3).  Kolodzik had what would have been his best NCAA tournament in March of 2018 with a 3rd place fimish and based off results he regressed by March of 2019. 

Add in tuat O'Connor, Sasso, Lugo, Mauller, etc all were showing drastic signs of improvement by that time as well.as several breakout performers and newcomers for 2021 in Lovett, Thomas, Parco, etc that provided 149 a certain amount if depth that it lacked since pre-Zain.

I agree Kolodzik might have won.  That he would have been more heavily favored than Glory AND Monday?  Nope.

Edited April 12, 2023 by nhs67

[scourge165]

19 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Even without hindsight Spencer at -3000 was a bad bet.  Many people on here and other outlets gave Glory a very real chance, using the caveat that Lee's health was an unknown.  Ignore that at your pleasure, if you must.

As far as me saying three years, that is a stretch, however you are still ignoring that much of your rationale for a theoretical March 2021 series of matches is coming from a December 2018 match (21-18=3).  Kolodzik had what would have been his best NCAA tournament in March of 2018 with a 3rd place fimish and based off results he regressed by March of 2019. 

Add in tuat O'Connor, Sasso, Lugo, Mauller, etc all were showing drastic signs of improvement by that time as well.as several breakout performers and newcomers for 2021 in Lovett, Thomas, Parco, etc that provided 149 a certain amount if depth that it lacked since pre-Zain.

I agree Kolodzik might have won.  That he would have been more heavily favored than Glory AND Monday?  Nope.

 

Ok...well, I just don't agree. 16 of Lee's 20 wins this year where TFs or Pins. He was the clear cut Hodge winner up until a historic, top 5 all time upset for Glory to win it(probably top 2-3).

165 was a loaded weight and you can list a bunch of guys at 149, the fact is, Kolodzik had beaten the best of that group numerous times.

 

And if you think it's MORE likely that Glory wins 125 going INTO this years NCAA as it was that Kolodzik going into 2020 or 2021...well...I see it VERY differently. 

 

[ugarles]

gotta respect an article by a princeton alum about how shocking it is to have a good ivy league wrestling team that literally doesn't mention cornell once

[11986]

I wish the Princeton alum had also noted John Orr as a two time finalist instead of only in '85.  

[Fletcher]

How is Princeton getting its blue chip recruits thru admissions? They lower their standards slightly for athletes, but Princeton can't lower them any more than the other ivies, right?

[Gus]

30 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

How is Princeton getting its blue chip recruits thru admissions? They lower their standards slightly for athletes, but Princeton can't lower them any more than the other ivies, right?

Perhaps the kids on the team are incredibly intelligent. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

40 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

How is Princeton getting its blue chip recruits thru admissions? They lower their standards slightly for athletes, but Princeton can't lower them any more than the other ivies, right?

It is going to start getting even easier.  Columbia, for one, has just dropped SATs as a requirement for admissions.  This makes it much that easier to gain admission for a kid who has solid grades, and a "hook" or "talent" of some sort but struggled on entrance exams.

[Fletcher]

21 minutes ago, Gus said:

Perhaps the kids on the team are incredibly intelligent. 

I'm sure they are. Doesn't change the fact that Princeton admissions standards means they have a much smaller pool of candidates from which to recruit compared with non-Ivy schools.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

27 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

I'm sure they are. Doesn't change the fact that Princeton admissions standards means they have a much smaller pool of candidates from which to recruit compared with non-Ivy schools.

My uncle was a college tennis coach at a d1 university, who also taught a class on sports ethics.  He marveled at all the 'really smart, really poor' athletes who got into Harvard, played hockey, and had great financial aid packages.

[Red Blades]

17 hours ago, scourge165 said:

But hey, maybe the article gets written a few years ago if Matthew Kolodzik doesn't get his RS pulled late in '20 and then lose his chance to Wrestle at a NC.

Yeah, he lost a year to compete at Nationals... but the team got a win over Cornell!