2023 Hodge Trophy Winner

[Wrestleknownothing]

43 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

I hope not. It used to be 4, max 5.

The last four years it has been 8, 6, 8, and 10. And in 2020 there were even three non-finalists who garnered votes, so eleven wrestlers received votes that year.

Not looking good for 4 to 5 anymore.

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

I'm glad they took the completely subjective "Sportsmanship" (or was it heart?) out of it. If you're the best wrestler that year, and you're a jackass, that shouldn't disqualify you from winning something that's based on results that season. News flash, not every Hodge winner from the past is of high moral/ethical fiber or high character people. That's just the nature of people. 

If Starocci has the stats to validate the #1 next year for this, I'll have no qualms putting him on the #1 line. 

Hodge was an upstanding character, nothing wrong with that being part of the criteria.  The fact that a couple guys may have snuck in under the wire doesn't mean we should downgrade the award from there on.    

[TylerDurden]

21 minutes ago, Xmas32 said:

Not sure what Starocci is so upset about. Pin more dudes man.

Agreed. Any objective observer could see Parris should have won the Hodge this year. I'm glad the votes reflected that, even if you eliminate the fan vote. 

I'd probably have Starocci No. 2 on my ballot, but Parris was the more impressive and dominant wrestler this year. 

[Matthew Burns]

I'm pretty Penn State centric.

 

That said Parris earned the Hodge. Putting the competition on their backs matters.

 

Next year look for 33 Hodge finalists. I wonder who the pigtail candidate will be.

[TylerDurden]

The Hodge folks do need to address the number of finalists. Ten is way too many. It creates choice overload and unnecessarily complicates the voting.

[headshuck]

No surprise that Mason Parris was number 1 in both the fan vote and the committee vote, but I am very surprised that Aaron Brooks was last in the fan vote and got zero committee votes.

He had a loss but so did Yanni. How many pins did Brooks end up with?

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, headshuck said:

 

He had a loss but so did Yanni. How many pins did Brooks end up with?

 

Hodge didn't lose.  No idea why any with losses would be finalists when there were ample number of undefeated candidates.  

[headshuck]

Is KOT going up to 174 next year?

[Jason Bryant]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Hodge was an upstanding character, nothing wrong with that being part of the criteria.  The fact that a couple guys may have snuck in under the wire doesn't mean we should downgrade the award from there on.    

100% fair point, but how can you quantify sportsmanship and heart? Gable, for example, never lost a team point, never was disqualified, he might have been a bit flashy and loud at times, but nothing that any rational human being could describe as a knock on his sportsmanship - and if people disagree with his sprinting off the mat, that's on them. Not to mention, we don't know the "heart" he had to push through when he was fighting to clear his name (not getting into that any further). I feel like Sportsmanship/Heart is an added criteria created to eliminate people we don't like. That's not exactly an objective criteria. I'm for removing things that can be viewed as biased outside of what happens on the mat. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Jason Bryant

[headshuck]

100% fair point, but how can you quantify sportsmanship and heart? Gable, for example, never lost a team point, never was disqualified, he might have been a bit flashy and loud at times, but nothing that any rational human being could describe as a knock on his sportsmanship - and if people disagree with his sprinting off the mat, wah wah wah. Not to mention, we don't know the "heart" he had to push through when he was fighting to clear his name (not getting into that any further). I feel like Sportsmanship/Heart is an added criteria created to eliminate people we don't like. That's not exactly an objective criteria. I'm for removing things that can be viewed as biased outside of what happens on the mat. 

You’re not trying hard enough. An example of Sportsmanship is Bo Nickal helping guys get up after he sticks their a$$.

An example of Heart would be Spencer Lee winning his 4th title without ACL’s.

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

100% fair point, but how can you quantify sportsmanship and heart? Gable, for example, never lost a team point, never was disqualified, he might have been a bit flashy and loud at times, but nothing that any rational human being could describe as a knock on his sportsmanship - and if people disagree with his sprinting off the mat, that's on them. Not to mention, we don't know the "heart" he had to push through when he was fighting to clear his name (not getting into that any further). I feel like Sportsmanship/Heart is an added criteria created to eliminate people we don't like. That's not exactly an objective criteria. I'm for removing things that can be viewed as biased outside of what happens on the mat. 

Then explain fan vote. 

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, headshuck said:

You’re not trying hard enough. An example of Sportsmanship is Bo Nickal helping guys get up after he sticks their a$$.

An example of Heart would be Spencer Lee winning his 4th title without ACL’s.

Nolf showed character and respect for the ankle bands.  

[nhs67]

23 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Is KOT going up to 174 next year?

I hope so.

[nhs67]

22 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

100% fair point, but how can you quantify sportsmanship and heart? Gable, for example, never lost a team point, never was disqualified, he might have been a bit flashy and loud at times, but nothing that any rational human being could describe as a knock on his sportsmanship - and if people disagree with his sprinting off the mat, that's on them. Not to mention, we don't know the "heart" he had to push through when he was fighting to clear his name (not getting into that any further). I feel like Sportsmanship/Heart is an added criteria created to eliminate people we don't like. That's not exactly an objective criteria. I'm for removing things that can be viewed as biased outside of what happens on the mat. 

So we should shouldn't penalize someone for trying to fight a guy much worse than him?

I think those instances are reasons we need to include sportsmanship.  Baylor Fernandez even if he were to go 80-0 next season with 80 pins should absolutely not be considered.

If Starocci can't keep his composure and wants to fight Washington, he can take it to the cage.  It's embarassing.

[Caveira]

Pretty low class.  Surprised Cael allows it tbh.  

[goheels1812]

4 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

How long did you think about your schtick before registering for this forum?

He does it on twitter too. He’s in every UNC tweet trolling. Best thing to do is not give him any attention (why I didn’t reply to his pointless “why are you a Carolina fan” thread.) If you don’t give trolls attention they get bored and move on because he has nothing meaningful to add to the board. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by goheels1812

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Pretty low class.  Surprised Cael allows it tbh.  

Some gents are thinking he doesn't even want to go back next season... maybe there is smoke there?

What control would Cael have then?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

7 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I mean... all champions were finalists.  This may be the new standard.

I think you're right; it does set a new standard.

• If 'undefeated' is important, only those 10 are possibly on that list. That makes picking finalists easier and less subjective. (Aka, less for fans to complain about.)
• All the "early" Hodge talk is virtually meaningless (which was really mostly complaining) - it now gets rolled into the "who will win NCAA" discussion where it belongs.
• Going forward, they could eliminate those with too many losses, etc. to streamline it and not weaken the vote from teams with multiple champs (ex: Star*/Brooks.)

And, lastly, this year it set a way to legitimize not listing Spencer Lee as a finalist without causing the pitchfork types to start burning the place down. This was, by far, the easiest way out of that potential mess.

 

 

[headshuck]

The way things are trending, all the finalists will get a Hodgelet for their accomplishment and younger fans will rejoice.

A new social score award will emerge.

[Offthemat]

21 minutes ago, headshuck said:

The way things are trending, all the finalists will get a Hodgelet for their accomplishment and younger fans will rejoice.

A new social score award will emerge.

Don’t be giving them ideas. 

[Formally140]

Well deserved mason parris 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Don’t be giving them ideas. 

In my best LJB impression...
 

"them" - the opposite of "us"... 

They must be bad, since we are clearly good...

I've done the research; Hunter Hilary's email laptop server is where the answers will be found.

 

[Mike Parrish]

12 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I think you ended up with a pretty darned good one!

Pretty sure he got the rotten end of the deal too.

[Offthemat]

45 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

In my best LJB impression...
 

"them" - the opposite of "us"... 

They must be bad, since we are clearly good...

I've done the research; Hunter Hilary's email laptop server is where the answers will be found.

 

Well, if that’s the best you can do, that’s the best you can do. 

[dragit]

9 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

100% fair point, but how can you quantify sportsmanship and heart? Gable, for example, never lost a team point, never was disqualified, he might have been a bit flashy and loud at times, but nothing that any rational human being could describe as a knock on his sportsmanship - and if people disagree with his sprinting off the mat, that's on them. Not to mention, we don't know the "heart" he had to push through when he was fighting to clear his name (not getting into that any further). I feel like Sportsmanship/Heart is an added criteria created to eliminate people we don't like. That's not exactly an objective criteria. I'm for removing things that can be viewed as biased outside of what happens on the mat. 

This is well argued but in the end I'm not sure it makes a difference either way. Bias affects votes.  A voter's views of sportsmanship/heart will in many cases be the difference on a close call (up or down), regardless of the official criteria. 

If AJ Ferrari comes back and goes undefeated with high pins and bonus next year, and Keegan O'Toole or David Carr or Shane Griffith is undefeated and close but clearly behind Ferrari in dominance criteria, Ferrari ain't gonna win regardless of whether the intangible criterion is on the list.