DT and the "Open Date"

[LJB]

it was just personal petty BS...

something surely you can appreciate...

 

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

well thats good hearing. Didn't know that. Hopefully you agree it was a rather odd omission for more than a decade. 

You have to admit its nice to have a schedule nerd on these here forums.  

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

You have to admit its nice to have a schedule nerd on these here forums.  

i am in the debt of said nerd.

[OriginalAxon]

The copium on this thread is amazing. EVERY coach is in it for themselves and is doing what they think is best for their team.  I hope PSU does accept, but burned bridges don't get rebuilt that quick.  

The thought that PSU dominates because they magically have high seeds at nationals is an amazing stretch. They have high seeds because they have the top talent who places high in the toughest conference. Then most of the time they come close to matching or surpassing those seeds with insane win rates in the quarters, semis, and finals. Thinking there is anything deeper than that is just homerism.

Edited August 14 by OriginalAxon
typo

[boconnell]

42 minutes ago, OriginalAxon said:

The copium on this thread is amazing. EVERY coach is in it for themselves and is doing what they think is best for their team.  I hope PSU does accept, but burned bridges don't get rebuilt that quick.  

The thought that PSU dominates because they magically have high seeds at nationals is an amazing stretch. They have high seeds because they have the top talent who places high in the toughest conference. Then most of the time they come close to matching or surpassing those seeds with insane win rates in the quarters, semis, and finals. Thinking there is anything deeper than that is just homerism.

You beat up that strawman worse than PSU beats up the rest of the country.  Impressive.  

[Simpleman424]

43 minutes ago, OriginalAxon said:

The copium on this thread is amazing. EVERY coach is in it for themselves and is doing what they think is best for their team.  I hope PSU does accept, but burned bridges don't get rebuilt that quick.  

The thought that PSU dominates because they magically have high seeds at nationals is an amazing stretch. They have high seeds because they have the top talent who places high in the toughest conference. Then most of the time they come close to matching or surpassing those seeds with insane win rates in the quarters, semis, and finals. Thinking there is anything deeper than that is just homerism.

The dude made his own cookie company with HIS name…there’s levels to this and he’s leading the pack. 

It’s not magic they have high seeds…it was just explained. You take these elite talents who know they’ll be managed throughout the season to roll into B1Gs and NCAAs with high seeds and low wear and tear. To think they’re NOT doing that is homerism. It’s smart…it is what it is but it’s beyond obvious at this point. And yes they win at NCAAs because these kids are already elite and now all they have to do is navigate the easiest paths possible in the tournament. Their hardest tournament might actually be B1Gs…which they go into healthy and rested.

[Hammerlock3]

58 minutes ago, OriginalAxon said:

The copium on this thread is amazing. EVERY coach is in it for themselves and is doing what they think is best for their team.  I hope PSU does accept, but burned bridges don't get rebuilt that quick.  

The thought that PSU dominates because they magically have high seeds at nationals is an amazing stretch. They have high seeds because they have the top talent who places high in the toughest conference. Then most of the time they come close to matching or surpassing those seeds with insane win rates in the quarters, semis, and finals. Thinking there is anything deeper than that is just homerism.

In addition to attacking a strawman, the first paragraph is demonstrably false. Many D1 coaches put their teams in less than advantageous situation for the purposes of promotion.  

[BruceyB]

I've been on both sides of this argument and previously I felt that I understood why Cael would refuse to dual DT and the pokes, but after further thought, I now am in the frame of mind that the leading reason that Cael wouldn't be willing to make this dual happen is pure stubbornness that is bolstered by personal feelings towards DT leaving PSU for OKST. 

This dual would unquestionably be the most promoted and biggest dual in the modern era of wrestling (since the rise of social media and streaming). There is no doubt that it would be the most viewed dual of all-time. How could any coach not want to be apart of the biggest spectacle and dual in college wrestling history? It would be talked about in depth for months leading up to the event, the ratings would be monstrous by wrestling standards, and realistically OKST is the only other program with a lineup that could make for a compelling dual with PSU.

If you are coaching the best team in the country, why wouldn't you want to take part in the biggest standalone event when there is almost zero negative effects to come from it? If anyone tries to say that wrestling one hard match against Oklahoma State is somehow going to ruin their chances in March, I would gladly argue that a true test is much more beneficial than scheduling Bellarmine and winning 55-0. If PSU is afraid some of their guys may take a loss and hurt their seed come March, then they are refusing to schedule a no-brainer dual to preserve seeds, and I'm sorry, refusing to schedule tough competition to preserve seeds is chicken shit and it would take some crazy cope (which we all know PSU fans have plenty of) to call it anything else. It's clearly working, but that doesn't make it right. College wrestling should have a 1 on 1 contest between the two premier programs every year. For a long time we were fortunate that Iowa and Ohio State were probably the #2 and #3 programs and got to see them dual PSU every year, but OKST has risen up and the sport of college wrestling deserves to see the best teams compete against each other.

[Simpleman424]

10 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

If anyone tries to say that wrestling one hard match against Oklahoma State is somehow going to ruin their chances in March, I would gladly argue that a true test is much more beneficial than scheduling Bellarmine and winning 55-0. 

I don’t think anyone’s arguing the one dual match angle it’s the fact that they do the absolute bare minimum competitively. They don’t even do National Duals now and we all know why…who wouldn’t want to be a part of that? I think it’s absolutely awesome for the sport…

[ionel]

26 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

 it’s absolutely awesome for the sport…

See you in Tulsa in December ... I'll buy you a beer if you drink that sort of stuff.  

BTW:  I think if a non Oklahoma team wins NDI then all their fans, who came winning year, should get to attend for free the next year.  So the 2025 Ohio St attendees should get in free this year.  Just my idea but prob impossible to enforce & know who are the true fans.  

[Simpleman424]

20 minutes ago, ionel said:

See you in Tulsa in December ... I'll buy you a beer if you drink that sort of stuff.  

BTW:  I think if a non Oklahoma team wins NDI then all their fans, who came winning year, should get to attend for free the next year.  So the 2025 Ohio St attendees should get in free this year.  Just my idea but prob impossible to enforce & know who are the true fans.  

I would certainly take you up on that offer if I can make it out there this year. 
 

I will petition that the first year we just have people vouch for your fandom…I think I’d get it. Plus I basically run the fan Ohio State Wrestling threads on another side…I put in my time 

[ionel]

25 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

I would certainly take you up on that offer if I can make it out there this year. 
 

I will petition that the first year we just have people vouch for your fandom…I think I’d get it. Plus I basically run the fan Ohio State Wrestling threads on another side…I put in my time 

Will MP vouch for you?  Are you on the bus?  

[Simpleman424]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Will MP vouch for you?  Are you on the bus?  

Oh I wouldn’t dare speak for THE Mr. Phillips…

[Hammerlock3]

3 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

I don’t think anyone’s arguing the one dual match angle 

Cael might be the only one, he said he couldn't do national duals cause it wasn't right for the kids, as if they couldn't peak them 4 months later.

For some reason our hero CP didn't ask about that. Don't get me wrong he's an awesome interviewer, I really wanted to hear him ask about cael's son and how cael knew he wanted to recruit kids who love wrestling. 

[OriginalAxon]

4 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

In addition to attacking a strawman, the first paragraph is demonstrably false. Many D1 coaches put their teams in less than advantageous situation for the purposes of promotion.  

Right...for promotion they need for their programs betterment and things needed to support their team to perform better. If they are doing things for any other reason they aren't doing their jobs well.

[Hammerlock3]

10 minutes ago, OriginalAxon said:

Right...for promotion they need for their programs betterment and things needed to support their team to perform better. If they are doing things for any other reason they aren't doing their jobs well.

you're trying to make a point but I have to guess what it is. 

My guess is that you're implying PSU in a big dual with OSU wouldn't promote PSU enough so Cael is right.

Is that it? 

Edited August 15 by Hammerlock3

[Simpleman424]

25 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Cael might be the only one, he said he couldn't do national duals cause it wasn't right for the kids, as if they couldn't peak them 4 months later.

For some reason our hero CP didn't ask about that. Don't get me wrong he's an awesome interviewer, I really wanted to hear him ask about cael's son and how cael knew he wanted to recruit kids who love wrestling. 

There is no legitimate excuse outside of academic testing, which did affect some schools, but PSU was/is not one of those. You’re telling me the best of the best teams can go out there and dual each other with basically no consequences, have fun doing it and maybe make 250k? I guarantee you those kids want to go win that thing…they have more guts and competitive nature than their coach. I don’t know when he lost it but he’s sliding into “E” at this point…

Well let’s be grateful he’s there to ask those hard hitting questions. Most journalists don’t have that kind of gumption.

[Simpleman424]

31 minutes ago, OriginalAxon said:

Right...for promotion they need for their programs betterment and things needed to support their team to perform better. If they are doing things for any other reason they aren't doing their jobs well.

We’re saying Cael doesn’t do those things…the others almost have to. He’s been gifted a well financed dream job, buys elite talent, coddles their records, avoids every challenging dual/tournament possible to have them there for B1Gs and NCAAs. They basically should even wrestle until then at this point…

[1032004]

11 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I've been on both sides of this argument and previously I felt that I understood why Cael would refuse to dual DT and the pokes, but after further thought, I now am in the frame of mind that the leading reason that Cael wouldn't be willing to make this dual happen is pure stubbornness that is bolstered by personal feelings towards DT leaving PSU for OKST. 

This dual would unquestionably be the most promoted and biggest dual in the modern era of wrestling (since the rise of social media and streaming). There is no doubt that it would be the most viewed dual of all-time. How could any coach not want to be apart of the biggest spectacle and dual in college wrestling history? It would be talked about in depth for months leading up to the event, the ratings would be monstrous by wrestling standards, and realistically OKST is the only other program with a lineup that could make for a compelling dual with PSU.

If you are coaching the best team in the country, why wouldn't you want to take part in the biggest standalone event when there is almost zero negative effects to come from it? If anyone tries to say that wrestling one hard match against Oklahoma State is somehow going to ruin their chances in March, I would gladly argue that a true test is much more beneficial than scheduling Bellarmine and winning 55-0. If PSU is afraid some of their guys may take a loss and hurt their seed come March, then they are refusing to schedule a no-brainer dual to preserve seeds, and I'm sorry, refusing to schedule tough competition to preserve seeds is chicken shit and it would take some crazy cope (which we all know PSU fans have plenty of) to call it anything else. It's clearly working, but that doesn't make it right. College wrestling should have a 1 on 1 contest between the two premier programs every year. For a long time we were fortunate that Iowa and Ohio State were probably the #2 and #3 programs and got to see them dual PSU every year, but OKST has risen up and the sport of college wrestling deserves to see the best teams compete against each other.

Your first and third paragraph kinda contradict each other.  I agree with the first, disagree with the third.  He’s not refusing to wrestle OK State to protect seeds.  From a pure wrestling standpoint, I think there’s probably a little bit of not wanting the OK State guys to get multiple cracks at them.

But the biggest reason IMO is related to your first paragraph.  He’s not happy DT went there, and he knows they’re coming for him.  Allowing this dual to happen likely gives OK State more momentum regardless of whether they win or lose - more content for Stilly boys, more money if it’s in Stillwater, etc.

Overall, I don’t think it’s fair for people to say “CaEl DoEsN’T wAnT tO gRoW tHe SpOrT!”  He does care about growing the sport, he just cares more about winning.  And scheduling this dual helps OK State get closer to beating him.

[1032004]

18 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I don't see a thread on this, so here goes ...

The other day, Taylor responded to a reporter's question about the possibility of a PSU dual this season by saying that OSU will a save a date  ... in perpetuity. In turn, some of the flo guys and folks on social media claim that DT was "calling out" Sanderson and co. 

To be fair, Pyles pushed back against the "sensational" framing of DT's comments. But, what do you think? What's DT doing?

I imagine DT and his team BELIEVE they could win. This mindset is why he is who he is, and why he attracts the wrestlers he attracts. But, any objective fan's gotta know that PSU wins handily for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

I think it’s fair to call DT’s statement a callout.   Just in case anyone didn’t already know, he definitely made it known the ball is in PSU’s court.

I did think it was funny that CP was trying to play peacemaker here by saying this wasn’t a callout (and I like CP), but then later talks about how Army invites who Cael tells them to invite to the Black Knight, which was a little bit of a callout itself IMO.

7 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Cael might be the only one, he said he couldn't do national duals cause it wasn't right for the kids, as if they couldn't peak them 4 months later.

For some reason our hero CP didn't ask about that. Don't get me wrong he's an awesome interviewer, I really wanted to hear him ask about cael's son and how cael knew he wanted to recruit kids who love wrestling. 

Meh, as you said elsewhere, Cael’s already answered the national duals question.  He wasn’t going to say anything different.  He rarely talks about his son so I do think that was a good question to ask (and that might’ve also been to hopefully help soften him up to other questions).

[ionel]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 think it’s fair for people to say “CaRl DoEsN’T wAnT tO gRoW tHe SpOrT!”  

ftfy

[alex1fly]

17 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I've been on both sides of this argument and previously I felt that I understood why Cael would refuse to dual DT and the pokes, but after further thought, I now am in the frame of mind that the leading reason that Cael wouldn't be willing to make this dual happen is pure stubbornness that is bolstered by personal feelings towards DT leaving PSU for OKST. 

This dual would unquestionably be the most promoted and biggest dual in the modern era of wrestling (since the rise of social media and streaming). There is no doubt that it would be the most viewed dual of all-time. How could any coach not want to be apart of the biggest spectacle and dual in college wrestling history? It would be talked about in depth for months leading up to the event, the ratings would be monstrous by wrestling standards, and realistically OKST is the only other program with a lineup that could make for a compelling dual with PSU.

If you are coaching the best team in the country, why wouldn't you want to take part in the biggest standalone event when there is almost zero negative effects to come from it? If anyone tries to say that wrestling one hard match against Oklahoma State is somehow going to ruin their chances in March, I would gladly argue that a true test is much more beneficial than scheduling Bellarmine and winning 55-0. If PSU is afraid some of their guys may take a loss and hurt their seed come March, then they are refusing to schedule a no-brainer dual to preserve seeds, and I'm sorry, refusing to schedule tough competition to preserve seeds is chicken shit and it would take some crazy cope (which we all know PSU fans have plenty of) to call it anything else. It's clearly working, but that doesn't make it right. College wrestling should have a 1 on 1 contest between the two premier programs every year. For a long time we were fortunate that Iowa and Ohio State were probably the #2 and #3 programs and got to see them dual PSU every year, but OKST has risen up and the sport of college wrestling deserves to see the best teams compete against each other.

To add, I think there’s also the chance that Cael doesn’t want OSU guys to get a feel for his guys, in any manner. 

[alex1fly]

16 hours ago, ionel said:

See you in Tulsa in December ... I'll buy you a beer if you drink that sort of stuff.  

BTW:  I think if a non Oklahoma team wins NDI then all their fans, who came winning year, should get to attend for free the next year.  So the 2025 Ohio St attendees should get in free this year.  Just my idea but prob impossible to enforce & know who are the true fans.  

Love this idea. Rally up!

[MoveCountermove]

20 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

well thats good hearing. Didn't know that. Hopefully you agree it was a rather odd omission for more than a decade. 

Being framed as a big deal cuz the coaches wrestled each other once upon a time in the same dual...probably the last time they met (if I'm not mistaken, and partially why it's being billed as a big deal)

[Hammerlock3]

5 hours ago, 1032004 said:

IMeh, as you said elsewhere, Cael’s already answered the national duals question.  He wasn’t going to say anything different.  He rarely talks about his son so I do think that was a good question to ask (and that might’ve also been to hopefully help soften him up to other questions).

So your opinion is that Pyles doesn't have to ask hard questions because we know Cael is gonna dance around them anyway? (none of us expect pyles to browbeat him)

If it is thats fine.