fishbane

I think number quoted for work study comes from federal work study money. Not every college student with a job has a job on campus and not all on campus jobs are paid with federal work study dollars. I think most of my college classmates made more in $1850 in income annually.

Taxes would be owed on $23k/$46k in tuition too. He might have $54k after tuition and educational expenses and before taxes, but taxes are owed on the full $100k, so it's worse than earning $54k before taxes. Now there are some educational tax credits and deductions that can be taken but deductions are capped far below $46k or even $23k and the tax credit begins a phase out at $80k. Maybe the $100k payment is split over two tax years as are the educational expenses so that isn't an issue and those can be maxed out, but he likely still has to deal with self employment tax. I don't know if $500k is accurate, but my point is that if an NIL payment is being made in place of a scholarship or to exceed the scholarship limits then it has to be pretty large. There is a tax advantage to scholarships that NIL payments do not enjoy and tuition is pretty crazy high today. This is likely the case for a wrestling transfer happening in August. Doesn't mean $500k is accurate, but I think the starting point for a preseason #1 to leave a scholarship is $100k.

I thought the rumored number for Woods was $100k. If a wrestling scholarship is not available, which there might not be for transfers which come in after the season ends, $100k isn't exactly buku dollars. Usually scholarship dollars are given to incoming freshman who are mostly all committed before NCAAs, so there might not be scholarship dollars soon offer in April and I'd be really shocked there was some available in August unless the departures freed up some money. Scholarship monies are not taxed, but if some dude is going to pay you $100k for a couple appearances or something, you'll owe state and federal taxes possibly self employment tax on top of that. Then Iowa will charge you tuition, room, board, books, ect which for an out of state student is nearly $50k. $500k is more than the salary of some coaches, but not Tom Brands who is set to make $700k this season. Coaches are also employees who receive a variety of benefits a wrestler getting $500k from a booster does not. I think even Terry's $400k as an employee is better than the rumored deal Buchanan received.

It isn't that transactional in education. Universities are allowed to give as many academic scholarships as they please and certainly there is a cost in doing offering them. They can only accommodate so many students in a given year so allowing some to attend for free mean a paying student cannot attend and it doesn't guarantee the University will receive anything of value in return. Still almost all do this. The issue was that in the old days many Universities decided that they would only allow one another to compensate wrestling athletes up to tuition, room, board, books and nominal amount more and that you could only do this for 9.9 wrestlers. This allowed the schools that really valued having the best wrestling team to get prestige or whatever at less than a fair market rate. In an open market the best recruit would surely be more valuable than the 50th best, but under the old system they would both receive the same compensation. You can see this in coaches's compensation. The 50th best coach is compensated less than the best coach. All coaches across all sports were probably making more than they otherwise would have because of the restriction on paying players.

Sure NIL payments to transfer are a circumvention of current NIL rules and more accurately described direct payment to compete for the school. I'd say it's against the rules, but we are not far off from universities paying athletes directly so I don't see it as the worst part of the recent Iowa transfers. The schools that pursue transfers like this have non-neglible revenue from wrestling, but you're right from a profit-loss it doesn't justify the expense... little does on a university's balance sheet as they are non-profit entities. Tuition doesn't cover academic operating expenses either. Revenue is kind of beside the point. A handful of schools decided long before these particular transfers, and NIL in general, that winning a national title in wrestling is really important to them and they are willing to spend millions of dollars to try and do it. David Taylor has an annual salary of $1MM, so OSU is willing to spend over $1MM on coaches's salaries. Iowa is set to pay Tom Brands $700k this year, whilst Terry Brands is making $400k. Iowa is also spending over $1MM on coaches's salaries. I am sure PSU has a similar coaching budget. From a profit-loss standpoint I don't know that those salaries are justified by the revenue the programs generate any more than paying wrestlers $100-$500k to transfer. Coaches are getting far more from this arrangement than the schools are wouldn't you say? Prices and salaries are set by the market and the market right now has a handful of motivated bidders. It only really takes two for a price to skyrocket, but with so few bidders it's a volatile market. David Taylor retired in April and got a $1MM contract. If he had turned it down to compete and train full time through the world championships next month, he'd likely only find offers paying a fraction of that. Buchanan and Teemer might have received large paydays, but suppose someone like Peyton Hall went shopping for a transfer destination at the same time. OSU, PSU, and Iowa all have multiple really good options at 165-174. He likely wouldn't be living as high on the hog as Buchanan or Teemer.

Ifin I were Glazier I'd be a little worried that I wouldn't get a fair shot at the starting spot at 197. Assuming the $500k transfer fee is true, there could be some pressure real or perceived for Brands to use Buchanan over Glazier. Suppose Brands picks Glazier over Buchanan in the post season and Glazier underperforms. Is it possible that the boosters that shelled out the cash and recruited Buchanan would be upset with that decision? Is it possible if Brands thinks Glazier has the slight performance edge going into the post season that he would nevertheless pick Buchanan because it's the safe choice considering his track record at NCAA's and significant investment that was made to bring him in?

How exactly is the field massively slanted towards athletes? I'd agree if the measure is how it was 15 years ago then it's better for athletes no doubt, but slanted towards athletes? That sounds false to me. Even with the settlement (that's apparently not all that settled) the revenue split is far lower than seen in professional leagues. There is a single union that I am aware of representing a single team of athletes in NCAA sports which isn't recognized by either its institution or the NCAA. Though there are reports of NCAA football players getting NIL deals in the millions of dollars I have yet to see even a single power 5 athlete out earn his head coach. At the pro level there are players on essentially every team that out earn their coach/manager. The highest paid people involved in NCAA sports remain Football coaches, basketball coaches, and administrators. There is still some ways to go until it's level IMO. Yes it's better, but that doesn't invalidate the criticism. Buying a replacement -1 to 2 weeks before the start of classes might be the shittiest thing they can do under the current rules and Askren and other will call out the practice and tell wrestlers to think twice before deciding to go there. I am sure 15 years ago the same people would have similar criticism and advice concerning schools that would recruit over a wrestler and not grant a release.

It really is a sign of the diminished stature of wrestling forums that competitors don't lurk on them anymore. Back when Steve Mocco was the top recruit things were different. https://youtu.be/Jz-yJ1DcIyI?si=o5gDsGb6QwH7Dx4T&t=194

The problem with saying Abas was stalling for what he did in those 7 seconds after the restart is where does it end? He was no more offensive the subsequent 7s. Why not hit him again? I suppose because he was on the verge of being taken down. In the final 7 seconds he was mostly laying on the mat - that could be a 3rd stalling call. I am pretty confident if Abas has defended that final takedown the official would have hit him again and this match would have been headed to SV. Even back in 1993 stalling calls didn't come like that in the 1st period or likely even in the 3rd period if Abas was either losing or had a bigger lead like say 10 points. Stalling calls can seem like an invisible hand trying to level a match. When Abas is winning the official hits him for 7s of passive wrestling in the tictok and with the earlier warning was more like 3s of passive wrestling, but the moment he is about he relinquish the lead it stops being called. It's like in Mariokart when you get into first place and the computer controlled racers start racing excellently and getting great items then after they catch you they go back to being mediocre. If you're up 2 points with 21s left in the NCAA finals and are staying in the middle of the mat you've earned the right to not attempt to score.

I agree that athletes should have the freedom to move and earn money off their name image and likeness. Payments made for transfers like this, though under the rules that allow for NIL earnings, are not that. They are direct compensation for joining the team, but I don't have much issue with that as I think colleges should be able to pay athletes directly. I suspect Askren feels similarly and none of that changes his criticism. Employment by and large is at will in the US. Employees are free to quit and employers can terminate an employee at any time for any reason. Often times employers will try and build a family culture at a company, yet when redundancies come team building, family, and culture rarely comes up. Some employers will notify employees in advance to give them time to transition and/or a severance package. Other places will notify you via an email to you work email that they've already deactivated, so you find out when your badge doesn't work in the morning. Some companies promote from within when there is a management opening. Others will overlook promoting a hardworking over performing employee to recruit a high priced replacement that knows nothing of the company culture. Askren's advice regarding Iowa is similar to advice that I'd give anyone contemplating working for a employer that has a reputation of being demanding and treating employees as expendable at a moment's notice - do it for the right price and low expectations. The way these guys got replaced right before the semester started is closer to a turn your badge off redundancy. I am sure they don't mention that to recruits on the way in. "If you make the starting lineup and don't place at NCAAs we may bring in a top 3 guy for $500 large to replace you after the bursar has cashed your tuition check for the semester." It kind of undermines the talk of culture and family and having all the wrestlers over for Thanksgiving. What kind of message does it send to any wrestler that might consider going to Iowa as a walk on that's not expected to start when a success story like Glazier who did the right things, overachieved, worked his way into the starting lineup, and achieved a top 10 ranking gets replaced like this? At least 4 other guys received the message. Do you think these 7 guys (5 outbound and Teemer and Buchanan) are showing up to some reunion like the one Askren described 20 years from now? If a successful program in a non-revenue sport has a transfer budget of over $1MM/year to bring in players then financial fair play rules are likely needed to maintain the competitive landscape we have now, which isn't that competitive. The NCAA should also consider a transfer window that is aligned with its members educational mission. Only transfers that take place within the window would be eligible to compete for the new school the next term. Having guys switching teams and moving across the country the first week of classes seems incompatible with an educational mission.

Maybe not $500k but it needs to be pretty significant to make these moves happen at this time. To make any sense for someone on a full scholarship to transfer at this juncture the offer would have to be at least $100k. Tuition room and board is nearly $50k for an out of state student at Iowa and taxes would be owed on the $100k. There are probably no athletic scholarship dollars floating around unused 1-3 weeks before classes start, so tuition room and board is coming out of that $100k. After taxes and moving expenses that's likely under $25k net in pocket vs remaining on a full scholarship at your current institution.

Is Micic not eligible?

It's still pretty bad. This isn't like when Sanderson/PSU recruited Nick Nevills over an already committed Thomas Haines. That happened before either had entered their senior year of high school. It isn't even comparable to when Max Dean transferred in to displace returning AA Michael Beard. That was announced in May after the season. Here a guy was brought in at a cost of $500k to replace a top 10 returning senior the day before classes start. It's crazy. You're all but stuck in that situation. In a week you have to apply, get accepted, figure out financial aid, enroll, and move across the country. He might have to break a lease and be on the hook for rent back in Iowa. I'm sure the 5 heading out of Iowa weren't seeing much of the benefits of more money, more control, or more choice last week. Options were likely limited and it may have cost them thousands of dollars to pull off their moves.

Maybe it wasn't at the time, but today I'd think it would be a pretty questionable stalling call on Abas. Abas was called for stalling 9s after the restart. Abas really only takes about two steps back and is then circling and defending McIlravy's constant attacks. Seems harsh. Overall I'd say the official was too involved in the third period of that match. The earlier stall warning was pretty harsh to and then he was quick on a couple potential dangerous brakes that benefited McIlravy that didn't look that dangerous. The stall call was the difference in the match as Abas had riding time and it would have gone to SV. Compare that stall call to what Figueroa had to do to get called for stalling in the NCAA finals this year. No way would this 2024 ref had made either of the stall calls against Abas. https://youtu.be/FFIEb2jb2Xc?si=xYS5YoQaAX3aa5sZ&t=720

Would you have thought the same thing if we were discussing Jessie Whitmer after his redshirt junior year entering his 5th year?

If Jessie Whitmer were a rising 5th year in 2024 instead of 1996...

I agree. Holding a kid back for academic reasons means the kid learns stuff they didn't learn the first time. The 8th grade hold back for wrestling reasons seems counter productive if the goal is to make him/her a better wrestler. Where will a kid get better over the next year? In high school practicing and competing with 14-19 year olds or repeating 8th grade and likely not wrestling competitively Nov-March.

It's in a weird place right now. A coach has to recruit an athlete but all he can offer is a scholarship then some other dude unaffiliated with the university contacts the potential recruit and offers to pay him a large sum of money to move to the city the college is in and do some token amount of work. If I were the coach or the general manager of a pro sports team operating in this way I'd find it completely untenable. You have little control over whether these monies actually get paid or to whom. I mean so long as the boosters like you there is probably some amount of cooperation, but if they lose faith or don't like you then you could end up like Joe Biden. Moreover if there is some economic downturn for the business of the booster on the hook for an NIL deal they might seek to get out of it. If it were an ad for a car dealership at market rate for a shoe deal with Nike/Adidas/ect. it's less of a concern because the business will receive economic benefit commensurate with the value of the deal. However imagine there is a booster rich from real estate investment that lives states away from Iowa and is paying wrestlers to transfer to Iowa and his business takes a downturn. Cuts need to be made. Is he going to follow through with a $1MM in payments to a couple of 1 year rentals when it provides no meaningful economic benefit to this struggling business? Hopefully the lawsuit settlement that allows for up to 30 scholarships and schools to pay players directly will transfer some of the NIL collective dollars back to the school so the coaches and administrators have more control.

I don't know that it's a business. Business are operated to turn a profit. I'd be very surprised if the revenue generated by the team plus the economic benefit provided by the wrestlers with NIL deals exceeds NIL payments and team expenses. If it were operating as a business that shouldn't happen. It would even be unsustainable at a normal non-profit corporation. It works for certain NCAA programs because boosters/hanger-on treat the team like their play thing. This issue is also seen in for-profit pro sports when a rich person buys a team and treats them as a toy spending far in excess of revenue and subsidizing team expenditures with their personal fortune. This issues are mitigated in virtually every major pro league across the world via financial fair play rules. These either set a salary cap or penalties for excessive spending like a luxury tax that is distributed to other teams to help with competitive balance, or penalties like post season bans and/or points deductions. If NIL payments becomes an issue for competitive balance maybe a soft cap would be appropriate. Look at the NIL monies spent at all programs and determine a limit. It could be a flat limit or tied to a teams revenue. If a team exceed the limit then there will be a points deduction at the NCAA tournament based on how much they have exceeded the limit.

Before that PSU had 4x PA Champ Thomas Haines committed to come to Happy Valley before he got recruited over for Nevills. Thomas Haines recommitted ended up going to Ohio State. He transferred mid season in 2015-16 to Lock Haven after Kyle Snyder announced he was pulling his redshirt and going up to 285. PSUs recruiting over Haines received some criticism at the time. Haines was #9 on the 2014 Big Board and Nevilles was #5. Haines was a PA guy going to his state's university and Nevilles was from the other side of the country and though he had beaten Haines was seen as a marginal improvement. Ultimately Nevilles had a much better career and proved to be the better choice. Snyder who displaced Haines at Ohio State was #1 in the class of 2014. A wrestler being displaced by an incoming freshman or beaten out by teammate is something that's happened time and time again. Paying a 6th year senior $500 large to displace your 6th year senior is something new.

I mean it will but it might not be in the way you desire. People may stop using the site or start using adblock. Made the mistake of visiting from chrome on a mobile device without adblock and got the tapatalk/browser question cover by an ad that WKN mentioned last week. Prevented the selection of either option and the site was greyed out and unusable until a selection was made.

I mean this probably has happened before - coach wrestling athlete in competition. Back before the proliferation of RTCs and resident athletes many post grads attempting to make world/Olympic teams were assistant coaches. Alan Fried wrestled John Smith at the senior level when he was in high school. He was definitely at OSU when Smith was still competing and at first an assistant and then later head coach. Fried wasn't one of the favorites for the spot and I think Smith being there was a selling point at the time. Gilman and Fix wrestled a best of three for a world team spot in 2018. Here is the FRL section discussion Gilman - https://www.youtube.com/live/35Zuq6ej_g4?si=LLJwrOCzUzT_fwYJ&t=2155 Not retired? https://x.com/rader_jd/status/1829141549705507276/photo/1

Which challenge? Coaching Fix to a world team berth or trying to make that world team himself?

There are probably fewer in the US than other countries, but there is also a selection bias since the lightest weight class in college competition is 125. Being forced to compete at 125 pushes out the really small guys. I think wherever they put the lightest weight the best guys will be cutting a lot of weight 48, 52, 54, 55, 57, 58, or 60kg it doesn't matter. Entries at the last two World Championships 2022, 2023, total. Entries at 57kg seems to be as high or higher than 97 and 125 KG. 57: 31, 33, 64 61: 24, 27, 51 65: 27, 45, 72 70: 28, 30, 58 74: 34, 45, 80 79: 32, 27, 59 86: 30, 48, 78 92: 23, 24, 47 97: 23, 35, 58 125: 24, 33, 57

Sanderson was younger when he tried it than Taylor is now.