scourge165

Ok...I do vaguely remember seeing something about that. A few thousand prisoners were being sent back and they rioted to try and negotiate life in an American prison instead? I was(am) pretty ignorant about the entire subject other than knowing it happened and some anecdotes. https://apnews.com/article/9d151e5171e19990b9f251efb57275bf Can't say I blame Castro. After the 40th or 50th assassination attempt, he probably thought, "hey...I'm starting to think those American's don't like me." And then everyone with a useable skill kept fleeing Cuba and we just took them all in. So why not throw all the crazies and murders onto one boat and ship 'em over!

Cael Sanderson is definitely slipping as a HC. Future Thread that I'm about 99% Sure Jimmy will start before next years NCAAs. "Is Penn State's run over?" "Will Cael ever win another team title?"

Did you NOT see the matches being referenced? Aiello clearly had NF and they gave him a TD vs Deprez that was...not a great call. It's that much worse that it was reviewed and THEN overturned.

Did it? I never really heard much about what impact it had(other than the move Scarface). Just that there were a LOT of political prisoners and in reading a little more, ~15-20K of the 125K who came over or were "allowed" to leave were prisoners, but even then, there were some artists, and writers who were more political prisoners... Is THIS what created "Florida Man?"

Yeah, I caught the start of the match, saw him get in on a few shots, then finish the shot. Then was watching Lewnes and came back, 9-2. He did mature physically of course, but he NEVER looked like he was trying. I don't remember anyone making it look easier. He was stronger than he looked, quicker and that grip HAD to have been insane. You ALWAYS felt like he had another TD in him if he needed it. Just incredibly fun to watch...and I also kinda hated him. Nobody should make College Wrestling look that easy!

Does this account for the differences in scoring? Placement, advancement, bonus points, etc... Seems like a pain in the ass.

First thing...that Cael kid looks like he was pretty good. Second, Mark Churella wrestled 18 matches on the frontside of the bracket on his way to a 3/1/1/1(without a RS season). 18 matches on the front-side, 8 pins and 140 points scored in the 10 matches that he didn't pin his guy for an average of 14 points per match. One son that pinned Johnny Hendricks in the finals despite losing in what is not at all a controversial match and was a 3X AA and another son who was a 3X AA...both wrestled in the finals. Not sure what his eldest son did.

Eh, I feel like John Smith was overrated. (I mean, if we're gonna make a threat in honor of our favorite Cinnamon themed pasty, we have to keep some of the same nonsense, no?)

I mean...yeah, definitely Smith. But as he's already got the low single, how about Dustin Schlatter's. He won an NCAA Title on pretty much nothing but a Duck. Also, Mark Hall had a pretty nasty one.

Nope! Side note, these debates get me going back and watching older Wrestlers...like Mocco vs Rowlands, and honestly, the "best Wrestler ever" debate just gets sillier. These guys are ALL sooooo close. Again, Rowlands, a serious injured very possibly stopped him from winning his 3rd and he lost a TBer in the Finals as a Freshmen at HWT...a Freshmen who'd been a 103 in HS. He was a HWT with over 700 career TDs and 164 career wins. If HE'D just gotten done Wrestling, we'd likely be debating about where he comes in all time.

This is not only perfectly reasonable, but it's the consensus among Wrestling fans, aficionado's, experts...and even those like LBJ!!! In other words, everyone knew how it'd likely play out in 2020! (I kid, I kid...I don't want another round).

My mistake, I thought he ended up getting pinned. I knew he wrestled back for 3(which I did NOT see happening at the time) and that he worked Amuchastegui over pretty good the next year. That tournament my view on Ruth did a complete 180 and his toughness. I thought he'd MFF out, watching it live, I thought he kinda quit(I was very wrong, you can tell he tweaked something early in that match with a 2-1 lead). And you watch him getting turned and the Stanford kid is really working on that right leg. So for Ruth to come back as a Freshmen and get 3rd...that impressed the hell out of me.

WHAAAAT! The hell are you saying? That Jimmy McGill-Cinnabon isn't the most legitimate source? I don't know. He's never led me astray...if you ignore the overwhelming majority of his posts!

Because it's usually not one Wrestler and it slows down scoring and can cause match stoppages with Mekhi Lewis type fingers. It's not Wrestling... The Bavarians have something like this. They can do that. It doesn't accomplish anything and is generally a way to slow the match down.

I mean, he may lose in a H2H with Spencer Lee per Wrestlestat, but he was/is arguably the greatest HWT ever...with respect to Tommy Rowlands who went 2,1,6,1 Actually got injured in the Semi's in a match he was likely to win and then a TB loss as a Freshmen, the only thing stopping him from being the only D1 Wrestler to win 3 Titles at HWT, but still...2,1,6,1 with a legit injury...for a guy who started at 103 in HS, THAT'S impressive. So GOAT Wrestler to start at 103 and finish as a 4X AA, 3X Finalist, 2X Champ at HWT-Tommy Rowlands! Boom...another one Better Call Saul's Character can't start a topic over!

If Askren were to win any, it'd be grip and shoulder flexibility. I don't think he ever gave up a TD on a go-behind if he could lock his hands around the leg above the knee. I remember Herbert...when it looked like Ivan Drago vs "a bag of Milk," ...as Jake Paul put it, and Herbert had both hands and all his hip pressure trying to break Askren's lock and could-not-do it. Neutral Goat-Stephan Abas Single Leg Goat-Lincoln Mcllravy(I'm counting the boot scoot as a single since...well, he drags and then goes into a single and there's not arm drag) Low Single Goat-...c'mon...too easy Blast Double-Gable Stevenson Running Double Goat-Stephen Neal Best Foot Sweep-Steve Mocco(Steve/Stephens are REALLY born to be great Wrestlers). Sprawl Goat-Andrew Howe Hi-C- Kolat Firemans- Dan Gable Escape Goat-I don't know...all the best. You can't be a stud if you're ridden. Though...I'd say Zain was the quickest to get out. Reversals Goat-Bo Nickal-- Bryce Andronian would be up there, but...ya know, gotta win an NC to be on the list. Best Wrestling Announcer-SANDY STEPHENS and ED ALIVERTI! Now-The REAL GOATS Best spinning submission moves in an unwinnable match- Austin DeSanto Best pre-match Warm-up- Iowa State Old School Robes Weirdest philosophy not supported by Science to maximize testosterone -Ryan Deakin Best Celebratory Backflip interrupted by angry Iowian=Darian Caldwell Most blank expression regardless of match scenario-Mark Hall Best sideways coach clap by a non-coach- Moriah Marinelli Wrestler God loves the most-Every Wrestler who's won Wrestler who's urine analysis would break USADA's drug testing...Goat- Brock Lessner And MOST importantly...most HUMBLE Wrestler/Inmate-AJ Ferrari(Man I wish I knew what this guy could deadlift...but he's so shy about sharing his physical accomplishments).

I mean, it happens in Wrestling. I wrestled at different kids clubs and they tried to get me to Wrestle at X High School, we were always getting this State Champ who was friends of a guy on our team JUUST at that weight we needed most. And...we DID get transfers and so did other schools. So to think it wouldn't happen in College with programs like PSU, Iowa, or some of the programs...it's kinda silly.

I know Ruth was pinned vs...the Stanford kid(he was just abused on top and down ~11-2 and I don't wanna say he gave up...but he kinda gave up). And Jones after winning it I THINK he got pinned on the backside vs an MSU kid.

SMH...how did I miss that! It was right there! My bad

Why what?

Joseph, Hall...potential 1/1/2/1 and a 1/2/2/1. Both had the chance to jump tiers if not for the cancellation. As for the argument that Lee would have won if 2020 was wrestled...everyone thought he'd win THIS year, he didn't. Sucks for him.

I strongly agree with the bold. You can just use a formula to come up with the best Wrestlers ever. It doesn't take into account that David Taylor was undefeated as a Freshmen and got caught in a bit of a fluke pin vs a former runner-up or that his OTHER losses were to a 4X Champ and one of the Greatest ever. In all of these I will argue it's silly to just rank them as though there is no context. I'll put Lee over Stieber...IMO. I'm just taking College dominance. I'll also put Mcllravy over Lee. It's hard to come up with a top 20-25 ranking. Ben Askren couldn't beat ONE Wrestler. Is he really behind ALL 3X National Champs? Now, I don't agree with the last part, the best to ever do it, but I get why you're saying that. He was uniquely dominant for a 125. I think it's easier/smarter to rank or compare the best at weights. So 118/125 it's Abas(4/1/1/1 144-4 career record) and Lee(1/1/1/6) 98-6 career record) as the two best IMO. Abas had two losses to Jurgens from Iowa and then one when he bumped up to Wrestle Guerrero in a great match(4-3 I believe). Lee's were a little more spread out, but he was more dominant in his wins. Produced more team points.

Once in a lifetime talent was REALLY pushing it. He's great. But the Arujau I just watched work over Fix and RBY looked as slick and as dominant on his feet as anyone. Gilman didn't exactly blow Vito off the mat the last time they Wrestled. IIRC, it was 2-1 Gilman with him winning the 3rd on Criteria and Vito doing most of the attacking that match. Spencer Lee's a stud. If we're talking about his Olympic Gold in...~16 months, I don't think people will be shocked. Will people really be shocked if he DOESN'T win Gold in London? Kinda wild how being SKEPTICAL that he's going to win the Olympics is like spitting on Mother Teresas' grave or something...sacrilege!

Can't make this crap up. The hell you can't! You just did Lets break this down; Hmm...never actually said I don't think he'll perform. I said I'm skeptical given how he was taken down fairly often on his feet. Did someone say it was ridiculous for someone else to believe he WOULD have success in Freestyle? Or was it more the Twitter-ish response? YUP! People DEFINITELY saying they "don't think he CAN perform," and that it's "ridiculous" if someone else does! The reasoning...or reading can be very selective on here at times.

I'd bet money that IF someone affiliated with the program contacted him, it was a Wrestler who knows him. I'm not saying the Sanderson's or Cunningham are morally beyond openly recruiting a guy(though...I find it hard to believe they'd risk the potential sanctions or any trouble). I know of Two AAs that had people tied to multiple teams say, "you should come to...." It's generally just in passing...as I understand it.