Where does Levi Haines rank in the Penn State Pantheon?

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

Especially the year @nhs67 pointed out. If you asked me whether Pico, A Valencia, or 132 lb Zahid would be a world champ much less a world champ at 86 I can tell you Zahid would have been a veerrrry distant third choice. 

I would be interested in how the goes went between Haines and Zahid. I would also like to know who was cutting more. I feel like Haines started around 200 and Zahid walks around at 194 tops.

The version of Zahid we had at worlds, is not losing to Levi Haines. I would be surprised if it's even close.

[bnwtwg]

21 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

The version of Zahid we had at worlds, is not losing to Levi Haines. I would be surprised if it's even close.

I didn't say Haines was anywhere near beating him. I simply said I would have liked to be a fly on the wall during the live goes. Haines is on a similar trajectory to Zahid's career coming on gangbusters at 79 and the world is his oyster. The only difference is he doesn't have a world champ blocking him like Zahid did with Dake and Taylor.

[nhs67]

3 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

I didn't say Haines was anywhere near beating him. I simply said I would have liked to be a fly on the wall during the live goes. Haines is on a similar trajectory to Zahid's career coming on gangbusters at 79 and the world is his oyster. The only difference is he doesn't have a world champ blocking him like Zahid did with Dake and Taylor.

Zahid had zero MFS Seniors medals at 21.  Haines has a Silver at 21.

[bnwtwg]

11 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Zahid had zero MFS Seniors medals at 21.  Haines has a Silver at 21.

Zahid would have probably medaled at 21 as well when he was already in Final X vs Dake. I'm not comparing him Dake or Taylor by any stretch, but he was blocked by an all-timer and then had to grow into a bigger weight. When he finally got his opportunity he put on a show just like they did. And he was running through rankings tournaments for years. The difference is that Haines wasn't blocked at 21 like Zahid was. This is a good problem btw.

[nhs67]

39 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Zahid would have probably medaled at 21 as well when he was already in Final X vs Dake. I'm not comparing him Dake or Taylor by any stretch, but he was blocked by an all-timer and then had to grow into a bigger weight. When he finally got his opportunity he put on a show just like they did. And he was running through rankings tournaments for years. The difference is that Haines wasn't blocked at 21 like Zahid was. This is a good problem btw.

I understand he likely could have had he earned a chance to go to worlds at 21.

He didn't earn it.  Haines did at 21 and got Silver.  No theory or hypotheticals to it.  It happened.

[nhs67]

44 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Zahid would have probably medaled at 21 as well when he was already in Final X vs Dake. I'm not comparing him Dake or Taylor by any stretch, but he was blocked by an all-timer and then had to grow into a bigger weight. When he finally got his opportunity he put on a show just like they did. And he was running through rankings tournaments for years. The difference is that Haines wasn't blocked at 21 like Zahid was. This is a good problem btw.

Also, he hasn't been tearing through ranking series tournaments.

He won the last one he entered.  He got 2nd and 3rd in the two he entered in 2024.

Not including the 2020 one, he has won 4 of 7.  That is substantial, yes, but not some all-timer streak or P4P performance.

https://uww.org/athletes/valencia-zahid

[bnwtwg]

11 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Also, he hasn't been tearing through ranking series tournaments.

He won the last one he entered.  He got 2nd and 3rd in the two he entered in 2024.

Not including the 2020 one, he has won 4 of 7.  That is substantial, yes, but not some all-timer streak or P4P performance.

https://uww.org/athletes/valencia-zahid

I'm not saying he is an all-timer, I'm saying he and Haines are contemporaries. Would Haines have won a silver if Dake decided to wait a year before bulking up? Or would the conversation be drastically different along the lines of "Haines only got 3rd at NCAAs has he regressed? Should Haines cut down? Haines can't beat MM for *optimal weight" etc etc.

I'm not disparaging Haines in the slightest. My intention is to gas them both up in the hopes that they both bring home senior gold next year.

Edited October 30, 2025 by bnwtwg
autocorrect

[Letsgooo]

He’s doesn’t? I really like him tho for a psu wrestler. There are rs freshmen’s nowadays that are almost as old as him. College wrestling is the worse about that. If he wins another one then he’s top 10 easy. I don’t think there’s anyway he’s making some Mount Rushmore of wrestlers tho. 
And as much as I hate to that silver medal came at a non Olympic weight and they’re just notoriously easier to medal at. It’s why we have a history of medaling at 61(anyone), 70, (Green Zain) 79 (anyone) , 92( anyone). While we have a much harder time medaling at the Olympic weights.  He’ll always be a silver medalist and I love his style. I would love for him to go down to 74 and be our rep and win Olympic gold. But the weights you do it at matters. 

[The Kid]

The argument could be made that Levi Haines is #1 overall wrestler while still in college at psu.

He is the only one who placed at the world championships (2nd) while still enrolled at psu.

That's impressive.

[bnwtwg]

35 minutes ago, The Kid said:

The argument could be made that Levi Haines is #1 overall wrestler while still in college at psu.

He is the only one who placed at the world championships (2nd) while still enrolled at psu.

That's impressive.

PSU has a senior world champ on the JV team this year

[The Kid]

55 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

PSU has a senior world champ on the JV team this year

Who?  Ono?   lol

[forkemaz]

On 10/28/2025 at 11:46 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I loved watching Vincenzo but he also took some bad and weird losses.  Haines has only lost to the best.

Andonian pinned him and they didnt call it. And it woukd have completely changed this discussion.

[bnwtwg]

6 hours ago, forkemaz said:

Andonian pinned him and they didnt call it. And it woukd have completely changed this discussion.

1 (one) Bob Dole. Haines was stuck.

[ScottishSteel]

Not relevant to the Levi Haines discussion but I think the Aiello/Dean no call was more egregious

[Gus]

5 hours ago, ScottishSteel said:

Not relevant to the Levi Haines discussion but I think the Aiello/Dean no call was more egregious

While we are at it DePrez got hoses against Dean in that tournament also

[ScottishSteel]

5 hours ago, Gus said:

While we are at it DePrez got hoses against Dean in that tournament also

I don't recall that one; can you share some details?

[BIGTENFANBOY]

On 10/28/2025 at 10:36 AM, Dogbone said:

 

So some bad losses was just 1 match, his second of his career?? 

Marinelli. Dude never sniffed the finals and Cenzo has multiple losses to him.

3 of Haines 4 losses were against NCAA Champs.

[Threadkilla]

How is Mark Hall not in the discussion?,  he never took a redshift 3 time finalist and ranked #1 when the Fauci plague hit.   He lost his first varsity march to Alex Meyer and lost to someone in the scuffle, he was 2-2 against Zahid in College matches and lost to Kemerer once I believe.  If he was able to wrestle his senior season he would likely have finished 1-2-2-1 with 6 losses against 119 wins.     Haines has had a similar career.  

[manatree]

1 hour ago, Threadkilla said:

How is Mark Hall not in the discussion?,  he never took a redshift 3 time finalist and ranked #1 when the Fauci plague hit.   He lost his first varsity march to Alex Meyer and lost to someone in the scuffle, he was 2-2 against Zahid in College matches and lost to Kemerer once I believe.  If he was able to wrestle his senior season he would likely have finished 1-2-2-1 with 6 losses against 119 wins.     Haines has had a similar career.  

If ≠ did. That is why. The reality is, one and two time champs are down the list for the Penn State Pantheon.

Edited November 2, 2025 by manatree

[Threadkilla]

20 minutes ago, manatree said:

If ≠ did. That is why. The reality is, one and two time champs are down the list for the Penn State Pantheon.

I know the list.  PSU ST holder since Sunderland.   Folks mentioned Nick Lee and Cenzo.  Hall is right in that group.  But not as elevated as Brooks, Zain, Ruth etc.  

[nhs67]

2 hours ago, Threadkilla said:

How is Mark Hall not in the discussion?,  he never took a redshift 3 time finalist and ranked #1 when the Fauci plague hit.   He lost his first varsity march to Alex Meyer and lost to someone in the scuffle, he was 2-2 against Zahid in College matches and lost to Kemerer once I believe.  If he was able to wrestle his senior season he would likely have finished 1-2-2-1 with 6 losses against 119 wins.     Haines has had a similar career.  

Hall was 1-1 with Kemerererer on the season.  That was a true toss-up.  Neither were guaranteed to make the finals, either.  Actually, Kemererererer was more likely to make the finals as Hall had Lydy on his half, who he had a 6-5 win at B1Gs over (he won off a BS stalling point awarded in the first period).

Simply put, he had less than a 50% chance to win it.

[Threadkilla]

12 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Hall was 1-1 with Kemerererer on the season.  That was a true toss-up.  Neither were guaranteed to make the finals, either.  Actually, Kemererererer was more likely to make the finals as Hall had Lydy on his half, who he had a 6-5 win at B1Gs over (he won off a BS stalling point awarded in the first period).

Simply put, he had less than a 50% chance to win it.

Sure he did.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, Threadkilla said:

Sure he did.

In the last 10 tournaments the #1 seed has won 49% of the time though for PSU #1's it has been 72% of the time (meaning the field only did it 41% of the time)

 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Threadkilla said:

Sure he did.

Ignorance is bliss, my friend.

That must be nice.

[Threadkilla]

4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

In the last 10 tournaments the #1 seed has won 49% of the time though for PSU #1's it has been 72% of the time (meaning the field only did it 41% of the time)

 

True and Hall in his three previous NCAA appearances made the final 100% of the time.