Cael

[happyvalet]

4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Let me throw an alternative interpretation out there.

It is only odd if what Beau and Syd Bartlett said happened did happen.

But what if none of it did? What if the reason Starocci was not caught on camera with the stolen items is because he did not steal them? What if they were never stolen? What if Bartlett made that up? I understand that there are a lot of other reasons he would not be on camera with the items even if he did steal them, but we have to consider that one possible reason is that there was nothing stolen.

Starocci is not likeable at all. Bartlett is very likeable. We want to believe Bartlett. But what if he is making this stuff up? I admit that given what we have all seen of Starocci's behavior it is not hard to believe everything Bartlett said happened did happen. But what if it didn't? Might that also explain why the university has said nothing too? I had a high school chemistry teacher who told a long rambling story (like this post) about someone who had been lied about going to anyone who would listen to explain their innocence, but it only created more doubt. The point of her story was to say, "your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe it" and IT is an explanation.

Now I am not saying nothing happened, or that Starocci is innocent of anything. But I am saying we need to leave room for doubt. There is a great book by Chuck Klosterman called "But What If We're Wrong: Thinking About The Present As If It Were The Past" that explores the idea that even what we are certain of today is the truth, we may come to find in the future was not.

In this case, it's odd regardless. They're running a Christian wrestling camp for children and inviting a guy who was very recently accused of sexual misconduct by four different people. That's odd.

[Hammerlock3]

3 hours ago, flyingcement said:

On the Penn State forums, it was mentioned that Cael had a statement prepared immediately after that article was released - and the statement refuted the claims.  But Penn State would not allow it to be released.  

https://247sports.com/college/penn-state/board/18/contents/penn-state-wrestling-discussion--227713133/?page=558

do they normally let the guy they might fire give a statement as a rep of the university?

 

[bnwtwg]

4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

With the right authority the history is viewable:

https://help.snapchat.com/hc/en-us/articles/7012327251348-How-Snap-Inc-Works-with-Law-Enforcement

A friend of a friend said they heard that Snap metadata retrieval is at best a very grey area on par with WhatsApp (Meta fka Facebook) unless a person comes with deep pockets in their legal team, which is beyond messed up for hundreds of thousands of reasons at best

[UncleDon89]

14 hours ago, cl415 said:

Is that account reputable? Never listened to their podcast?

To an extent. It's Virgina recruit Liam Crook's dad. Just a guy in Wisconsin with too much time on his hands. He doesn't have sources, just reposting rumors.

 

[H82Lose]

This dude is an idiot, one of the latest on X trying to become relevant. There are a ton of them these days. I hate to say it, some of the worst ones are the "new" DT OSU Fans.  

[nhs67]

54 minutes ago, H82Lose said:

This dude is an idiot, one of the latest on X trying to become relevant. There are a ton of them these days. I hate to say it, some of the worst ones are the "new" DT OSU Fans.  

I disagree.  He isn't looking for clicks.  He genuinely believes it because someone he trusts has told him this.

[H82Lose]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I disagree.  He isn't looking for clicks.  He genuinely believes it because someone he trusts has told him this.

I won't argue, you may know him. I read the tweet he called Minnow out for rumors and then turns around and does the same thing.  

[headshuck]

If there was any kind of lawsuit brewing, how long would it take to become public?

[wrestlingfan22]

28 minutes ago, headshuck said:

If there was any kind of lawsuit brewing, how long would it take to become public?

Probably a rather long time. Once filed, it would probably get out quickly, but I doubt anyone would hear about it until it was filed. And who is getting sued and for what would have to get sorted, which is not a quick process. 

[mspart]

18 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

At this point the whole situation requires patience for the simple reason that no one here has subpoena powers. 

But we should, shouldn't we?  I want subpoena powers and I want them now.   Where do I go? 

mspart

[dragit]

20 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Let me throw an alternative interpretation out there.

It is only odd if what Beau and Syd Bartlett said happened did happen.

But what if none of it did? What if the reason Starocci was not caught on camera with the stolen items is because he did not steal them? What if they were never stolen? What if Bartlett made that up? I understand that there are a lot of other reasons he would not be on camera with the items even if he did steal them, but we have to consider that one possible reason is that there was nothing stolen.

Starocci is not likeable at all. Bartlett is very likeable. We want to believe Bartlett. But what if he is making this stuff up? I admit that given what we have all seen of Starocci's behavior it is not hard to believe everything Bartlett said happened did happen. But what if it didn't? Might that also explain why the university has said nothing too? I had a high school chemistry teacher who told a long rambling story (like this post) about someone who had been lied about going to anyone who would listen to explain their innocence, but it only created more doubt. The point of her story was to say, "your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe it" and IT is an explanation.

Now I am not saying nothing happened, or that Starocci is innocent of anything. But I am saying we need to leave room for doubt. There is a great book by Chuck Klosterman called "But What If We're Wrong: Thinking About The Present As If It Were The Past" that explores the idea that even what we are certain of today is the truth, we may come to find in the future was not.

I'm guessing that the university is waiting for an inquiry or inquiries, by the university, the police, and/or more news organizations, to be completed before it says anything or allows any of its employees to say anything.  

If the inquiries finish and disciplinary action is taken or a story written, then I'd expect statements in response.  If they finish and nothing comes of it, not sure whether they'd respond.

It's a tough situation.  The likeability gap you mention between Starocci and Bartlett factors into it, but I think the thing that makes it really difficult is that it seems like the big drivers of this are Ms. Bartlett and Starocci, both of whom are at best are undignified and at worst toxic people.  Mix that together and include sex issues in the equation and it's going to get very ugly.

This topic thread is about Cael, and he's caught somewhere in the middle of all this.  It's possible he acted by the book on everything he knew about but is hamstrung by university policy right now in terms of commenting.  It's also possible that given his lack of enthusiasm for publicity he's happy to let one student paper story blow over without engaging. 

And it's also possible his program has become dysfunctional.  Syd seems to be noxious and not someone I'd care to spend a minute with, let alone be associated with in any way (while recognizing that I simply do not understand a lot of what makes that generation tick), but it's people like that who are often the only ones who can blow the top off an organization that has gotten out of control.  

We really can't know based on the public record if that describes Penn State and Cael.  His 4x champ has been popped twice for PEDs (please don't tell me that this NLWC athlete is not relevant to a discussion about the PSU coach, that's wrong for a lot of reasons) and his 5x champ seems to have been a renowned jerk and possibly a criminal.  Not good looks but there's not enough info to know if those are the tips of two massive icebergs that implicate program-wide issues, or just a couple of floating hazards without much below them.  

[nhs67]

4 hours ago, H82Lose said:

I won't argue, you may know him. I read the tweet he called Minnow out for rumors and then turns around and does the same thing.  

No pony in that race, brosephino.  I just don't think he is looking for clicks.  Listen to his podcast(s).  It's a great listen.

[happyvalet]

1 hour ago, dragit said:

I think the thing that makes it really difficult is that it seems like the big drivers of this are Ms. Bartlett and Starocci, both of whom are at best are undignified and at worst toxic people. 

Equating Syd and Starocci is disgusting work by you. Her alleged crime is speaking and his alleged crime is rape. Tf is wrong with you 

[Winners Circle]

Just now, happyvalet said:

Equating Syd and Starocci is disgusting work by you. Her alleged crime is speaking and his alleged crime is rape. Tf is wrong with you 

At this point in time, both of them have the same criminal charges, none.

[happyvalet]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

At this point in time, both of them have the same criminal charges, none.

That's your entire morality system?

[Winners Circle]

9 minutes ago, happyvalet said:

That's your entire morality system?

If you're asking whether or not one article, written by a website that I have no background knowledge of whether or not it's a credible source, is going to make me decide that someone is guilty of a crime that they haven't even been charged with yet, is my morality system, then yes. 

If Starocci is charged with the alleged crime, and convicted, then my morality system will tell me that he wasn't a good guy.

Edited 20 hours ago by Winners Circle

[happyvalet]

3 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

If Starocci is charged with the alleged crime, and convicted, then my morality system will tell me that the wasn't a good guy.

Diddy and Epstein are thankful for people like you. 

Edited 20 hours ago by happyvalet

[Winners Circle]

Just now, happyvalet said:

Diddy and Epstein are thankful for people like you. 

Both had their day in court and were found guilty, so I'm not sure of your point. 

[happyvalet]

1 minute ago, Winners Circle said:

Both had their day in court and were found guilty, so I'm not sure of your point. 

Diddy was acquitted of sex trafficking and racketeering and convicted of lesser crimes. Epstein was sentenced to 18 months for 2 prostitution-related charges. The charges for sex trafficking minors were dropped. DOJ said there's no evidence Epstein had a client list or blackmailed associates. 

Nothing more to see here, says you!

[Dogbone]

2 hours ago, dragit said:

big drivers of this are Ms. Bartlett and Starocci, both of whom are at best are undignified and at worst toxic people.  

I don't follow PSU message boards so what makes anything Syd Bartlett has done as "undignified at best"?    From the outside she has just spoken up for what she sees as wrong.  What are the non PSU worshipers missing? 

[1032004]

2 hours ago, dragit said:

The likeability gap you mention between Starocci and Bartlett factors into it, but I think the thing that makes it really difficult is that it seems like the big drivers of this are Ms. Bartlett and Starocci, both of whom are at best are undignified and at worst toxic people. 

Might be a little worse than “toxic” if even half of the allegations are true…

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

I don't follow PSU message boards so what makes anything Syd Bartlett has done as "undignified at best"?    From the outside she has just spoken up for what she sees as wrong.  What are the non PSU worshipers missing? 

She had an onlyfans apparently, although she says she did not show any nudity.

Edited 20 hours ago by 1032004

[happyvalet]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

She had an onlyfans apparently, although she says she did not show any nudity.

I hope all who were victimized by her onlyfans page get justice 

[Dogbone]

14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

She had an onlyfans apparently, although she says she did not show any nudity.

So "at best" there are non nude picture of her on the internet??     Hopefully these dignified fans don't hear about what the rest of the PSU/NLWC have been up to this summer.  

 

[Hammerlock3]

45 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

She had an onlyfans apparently, although she says she did not show any nudity.

....what was she doing then? sounds like worst of all worlds.