Bo Bachelor round 2

[1032004]

1 hour ago, NorthCarolina said:

That is harder to quantify. Anecdotally, I would say the parentage is extremely small. We think the percentage is higher because it is a little more common practice for wrestling versus the general population. However, when looking at the general population it is very rare. 

Agree, but if you’re acknowledging kindergarten redshirts are more like 7-10% post covid, how do you define “extremely small”?  If it’s 2% then that would put the total number of people that have been held back at some point before graduating high school as pretty safely at least 10%.

[pokemonster]

16 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Are you from America?  Because it’s extremely common here especially if we’re including delaying kindergarten by a year as “being held back” (and I believe that was one of Bo’s extra years)

It's not extremely common. Wrestlers do it and that's about it, until other athletes start doing it and it snowballs. It's not a good trend either, delaying your kids start of school because you want them to be more mature than the others. The remainder have the choice of also hindering their starts or being behind the increasingly higher number of kids doing this for an athletic or developmental advantage. I mentioned this to my colleagues here in Ohio, and they were dumbfounded that it's normal practice for wrestlers. One of them recalled that their state champion classmate was held back after I said it, and that it was a secret to everyone in the grade. One mentioned his kids team getting walloped by a team of handpicked older kids ruining the league for everyone. I'd personally be embarrassed being a 19 year old senior year. What the hell are they doing in high school still? Move on to college and stop playing with the kiddies. 

[1032004]

38 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

It's not extremely common. Wrestlers do it and that's about it, until other athletes start doing it and it snowballs. It's not a good trend either, delaying your kids start of school because you want them to be more mature than the others. The remainder have the choice of also hindering their starts or being behind the increasingly higher number of kids doing this for an athletic or developmental advantage. I mentioned this to my colleagues here in Ohio, and they were dumbfounded that it's normal practice for wrestlers. One of them recalled that their state champion classmate was held back after I said it, and that it was a secret to everyone in the grade. One mentioned his kids team getting walloped by a team of handpicked older kids ruining the league for everyone. I'd personally be embarrassed being a 19 year old senior year. What the hell are they doing in high school still? Move on to college and stop playing with the kiddies. 

Maybe we’re quibbling over the definition of “extremely common.”  A 12-year old study put the number of kindergarten redshirts at ~5%, and I’m sure it’s only gone up since then.

I’d agree a holdback in middle school or something purely for athletic reasons is not common, but redshirting kindergarten is, and often isn’t even really for the purpose of athletics.

Edited 19 hours ago by 1032004

[CHROMEBIRD]

Kids would get ridiculed for being held back once upon a time, but I can see why some parents may opt to do it for athletic reasons or bullying reasons or whatever.

Also, you gotta love the offseason here. How'd we get to talking about this?

[lu_alum]

All of my grandkids are on track to be 16 during their senior year of high school and turn 17 either during or just after, with no “skips” or “hold-backs” - except for one (out of eight) who will turn 17 in July, after his junior year.
My own kids were the same: all but one (out of four) turned 17 during their senior year. The exception turned 17 in August, just before school started.
It was similar in my own generation. I turned 17 in October of my senior year. My brother turned 18 in May, right after graduation, and my sister turned 17 shortly after her senior year began - basically, the same pattern.
So we’re talking three different eras here, and the consistent theme is that being 19 at the start of your senior year is unusual. I realize that having 13 or 14 out of my family fall into this pattern might make us the outliers, but it still shouldn’t be strange to see 16-year-old seniors. Of the people I’ve seen first-hand, 12 out of 15 were at least 16 during their senior year.
Back when I was in school, and when my kids went through, the norm seemed to be starting kindergarten at age five. That was just standard procedure - nothing odd about it. Sure, there were a few kids who were four or six in kindergarten, like my own, but five was typical.
To be 19 at the start of your senior year would mean you started kindergarten at seven, which seems pretty far-fetched.
I’m pretty sure there are states that wouldn’t even allow a 19-year-old to compete in high school sports their senior year. I remember when we considered moving to North Carolina around 2007, their rules (at least then) said you couldn’t be 19 years, 6 months by graduation to compete as a senior. For example, if school ended May 15, you couldn’t turn 19 before December 15. I remember this because a kid at a local school I was helping out at missed out on his senior wrestling season (and football too) because he turned 19 in November. He wasn’t held back on purpose - just started late due to life circumstances. He wasn’t some megastar; he was just a hardworking kid who happened to win state by wrestling out of his mind one weekend.
I know I’m rambling, but I hope my point is clear.
It’s summer. The rum is high.

I did a kindergarten RS for my son. He will turn 19 in late April of his SR year in HS. Even with the RS, he is the smallest kid in his class - with a 160+ IQ. He is taking AP Pre-Calc next year as a 7th grader.


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[lurker]

59 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

It's not extremely common. Wrestlers do it and that's about it, until other athletes start doing it and it snowballs. It's not a good trend either, delaying your kids start of school because you want them to be more mature than the others. The remainder have the choice of also hindering their starts or being behind the increasingly higher number of kids doing this for an athletic or developmental advantage. I mentioned this to my colleagues here in Ohio, and they were dumbfounded that it's normal practice for wrestlers. One of them recalled that their state champion classmate was held back after I said it, and that it was a secret to everyone in the grade. One mentioned his kids team getting walloped by a team of handpicked older kids ruining the league for everyone. I'd personally be embarrassed being a 19 year old senior year. What the hell are they doing in high school still? Move on to college and stop playing with the kiddies. 

It actually is quite common for kindergarten boys to be recommended for pre K.  Boys mentally tend to mature a little older than girls.

[CHROMEBIRD]

12 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

I did a kindergarten RS for my son. He will turn 19 in late April of his SR year in HS. Even with the RS, he is the smallest kid in his class - with a 160+ IQ. He is taking AP Pre-Calc next year as a 7th grader.


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Smart kid! Future Mountain Hawk?

[bnwtwg]

19 minutes ago, lurker said:

It actually is quite common for kindergarten boys to be recommended for pre K.  Boys mentally tend to mature a little older than girls.

Pssshh all the Bo Basset news this week proves most men are immature 50 year olds going on 14

[Dogbone]

17 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

I did a kindergarten RS for my son. He will turn 19 in late April of his SR year in HS. Even with the RS, he is the smallest kid in his class - with a 160+ IQ. He is taking AP Pre-Calc next year as a 7th grader.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To me, late April is right on the line where I wouldn't consider that a RS.  I know he will be 19 for a few weeks before he graduates, but only a few months older than a someone who turns 19 in June/July after they graduate.    To me, a RS is when they are held an additional year.   

For the record, I don't have a big issue with any parent who RS their kid before Kindergarten (regardless of month of birth) as 99.9% is done for size/maturity issues and not a competitive advantage when they are 19. I also don't have a big issue with a 19 year old senior but I can at least understand the argument, it just doesn't bother me a ton.  

[HokieDave87]

1 hour ago, pokemonster said:

It's not extremely common. Wrestlers do it and that's about it, until other athletes start doing it and it snowballs. It's not a good trend either, delaying your kids start of school because you want them to be more mature than the others. The remainder have the choice of also hindering their starts or being behind the increasingly higher number of kids doing this for an athletic or developmental advantage. I mentioned this to my colleagues here in Ohio, and they were dumbfounded that it's normal practice for wrestlers. One of them recalled that their state champion classmate was held back after I said it, and that it was a secret to everyone in the grade. One mentioned his kids team getting walloped by a team of handpicked older kids ruining the league for everyone. I'd personally be embarrassed being a 19 year old senior year. What the hell are they doing in high school still? Move on to college and stop playing with the kiddies. 

Seen plenty of high school football stars get their drivers license before the majority of the grade. It's more evident in wrestling because if the top 4 guys do it that's a major % of the starting lineup but it's common in football as well, and I'm sure in other sports I don't pay attention to.

[JimmyCinnabon]

17 hours ago, Caveira said:

Bla bla bla.  Whatever term you like it had nothing to do with academics and everything to do with getting an unfair leg up on competition.   He didn’t go to school in this example.  He stayed home and played vids and that’s just plain wrong.  

People generally prefer the term that applies, not one that means the literal opposite.

Edited 18 hours ago by JimmyCinnabon

[JimmyCinnabon]

4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

All of my grandkids are on track to be 16 during their senior year of high school and turn 17 either during or just after, with no “skips” or “hold-backs” - except for one (out of eight) who will turn 17 in July, after his junior year.

My own kids were the same: all but one (out of four) turned 17 during their senior year. The exception turned 17 in August, just before school started.

It was similar in my own generation. I turned 17 in October of my senior year. My brother turned 18 in May, right after graduation, and my sister turned 17 shortly after her senior year began - basically, the same pattern.

So we’re talking three different eras here, and the consistent theme is that being 19 at the start of your senior year is unusual. I realize that having 13 or 14 out of my family fall into this pattern might make us the outliers, but it still shouldn’t be strange to see 16-year-old seniors. Of the people I’ve seen first-hand, 12 out of 15 were at least 16 during their senior year.

Back when I was in school, and when my kids went through, the norm seemed to be starting kindergarten at age five. That was just standard procedure - nothing odd about it. Sure, there were a few kids who were four or six in kindergarten, like my own, but five was typical.

To be 19 at the start of your senior year would mean you started kindergarten at seven, which seems pretty far-fetched.

I’m pretty sure there are states that wouldn’t even allow a 19-year-old to compete in high school sports their senior year. I remember when we considered moving to North Carolina around 2007, their rules (at least then) said you couldn’t be 19 years, 6 months by graduation to compete as a senior. For example, if school ended May 15, you couldn’t turn 19 before December 15. I remember this because a kid at a local school I was helping out at missed out on his senior wrestling season (and football too) because he turned 19 in November. He wasn’t held back on purpose - just started late due to life circumstances. He wasn’t some megastar; he was just a hardworking kid who happened to win state by wrestling out of his mind one weekend.

I know I’m rambling, but I hope my point is clear.

It’s summer. The rum is high.

Are you from New Jersey by chance? Those ages seem young in comparison to Pennsylvania. I turned 18 about a month and a half into my senior year of high school. I had a few kids in my grade older than me. Everyone I was friends with turned 18 during our senior year of high school with one exception, a friend of mine turned 18 in August right before the school year started. None of us were ever held back or anything. When I went to college I found that people from NJ were about a full year younger than people I graduated high school with.

I know that when I was in high school (1995-1999) you could be up to like 21 years old and play high school sports. There was a kid who went to Greensburg Salem (where Greg Jones went to high school) a few grades ahead of me that was held back a bunch of times but still played on their soccer team. I know he was 20-21 years old because everyone gossiped about it because he was quickly running out of eligibility. 

[1032004]

40 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

To me, late April is right on the line where I wouldn't consider that a RS.  I know he will be 19 for a few weeks before he graduates, but only a few months older than a someone who turns 19 in June/July after they graduate.    To me, a RS is when they are held an additional year.   

For the record, I don't have a big issue with any parent who RS their kid before Kindergarten (regardless of month of birth) as 99.9% is done for size/maturity issues and not a competitive advantage when they are 19. I also don't have a big issue with a 19 year old senior but I can at least understand the argument, it just doesn't bother me a ton.  

How would an April birthday turning 19 as a senior not be a redshirt?

I have 3 kids, 2 of which have summer birthdays that I started kindergarten late, and they still won’t be 19 until after they graduate HS.

I thought most places the cutoff was around 9/1, so holding back an April birthday would mean they could be older than about 1/3 of the kids in the grade ahead of them.

[wrestlingfan22]

The norm in PA is to graduate at 18, with students who have summer birthdays typically graduating at 17 but starting college at 18. 

[Dogbone]

33 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

How would an April birthday turning 19 as a senior not be a redshirt?

I have 3 kids, 2 of which have summer birthdays that I started kindergarten late, and they still won’t be 19 until after they graduate HS.

I thought most places the cutoff was around 9/1, so holding back an April birthday would mean they could be older than about 1/3 of the kids in the grade ahead of them.

So your two summer birthday kids are 8-12 weeks younger than the late April birthday, I don't see that as a big deal.  If you want to call it a RS, I don't have an issue with the nomenclature.  I just think, when talking about kindergarten, late April through Summer is a 50/50 call on whether you send them when they are 5.   I have seen it go both ways and most have nothing to do with sports. 

Typically, the 9/1 date is for 6 year olds, not 5 year olds.  It seems pretty common for July birthdays to get held, I doubt all the summer birthday gets sent when 5 (just like you didn't) so the 1/3 is an exaggeration for effect and not likely.  

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

So your two summer birthday kids are 8-12 weeks younger than the late April birthday, I don't see that as a big deal.  If you want to call it a RS, I don't have an issue with the nomenclature.  I just think, when talking about kindergarten, late April through Summer is a 50/50 call on whether you send them when they are 5.   I have seen it go both ways and most have nothing to do with sports. 

Typically, the 9/1 date is for 6 year olds, not 5 year olds.  It seems pretty common for July birthdays to get held, I doubt all the summer birthday gets sent when 5 (just like you didn't) so the 1/3 is an exaggeration for effect and not likely.  

I didn’t say it was a “big deal,” just that that would still be considered a redshirt.  But yes, I agree that summer birthdays are more likely to be held back.  

[nhs67]

3 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

Are you from New Jersey by chance? Those ages seem young in comparison to Pennsylvania. I turned 18 about a month and a half into my senior year of high school. I had a few kids in my grade older than me. Everyone I was friends with turned 18 during our senior year of high school with one exception, a friend of mine turned 18 in August right before the school year started. None of us were ever held back or anything. When I went to college I found that people from NJ were about a full year younger than people I graduated high school with.

I know that when I was in high school (1995-1999) you could be up to like 21 years old and play high school sports. There was a kid who went to Greensburg Salem (where Greg Jones went to high school) a few grades ahead of me that was held back a bunch of times but still played on their soccer team. I know he was 20-21 years old because everyone gossiped about it because he was quickly running out of eligibility. 

Michigan.

I know so many states are different, I just thought it interesting in comparison.

I have no dog in this race and I enjoy everything Bo and his group do.  Big fan.

Edited 15 hours ago by nhs67

[nhs67]

4 hours ago, lu_alum said:

I did a kindergarten RS for my son. He will turn 19 in late April of his SR year in HS. Even with the RS, he is the smallest kid in his class - with a 160+ IQ. He is taking AP Pre-Calc next year as a 7th grader.


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I think that's an entirely acceptable age and it makes sense.

Also, bad ass kid you raised.

[JimmyCinnabon]

6 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Michigan.

I know so many states are different, I just thought it interesting in comparison.

I have no dog in this race and I enjoy everything Bo and his group do.  Big fan.

Yeah I don’t care how old Bo is or why. 
 

States are very different. You are correct. My brother is 15 months older than me. He was two grades ahead of me. My college girlfriend was 14 months younger than me and graduated the same year I did. She is from New Jersey while I am from Pennsylvania. 

[jackwebster]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9924543/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7692010/

Idk

[1032004]

10 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I think that's an entirely acceptable age and it makes sense.

Also, bad ass kid you raised.

And that’s only 3 months older than Bo…

(but I know you are not complaining about Bo)

[AgaveMaria]

POKEMONSTER wrote

"I'd personally be embarrassed being a 19 year old senior year. What the hell are they doing in high school still? Move on to college and stop playing with the kiddies. " 

Illness, injury & even birthdays come into play for some. An older article.

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/delaying-childs-starting-age-for-school-a-tough-call-for-parents/2017/08

One more current.

https://www.theparentz.com/parenting/when-should-a-child-start-school

I know of two cases of twins where the birth date came into play & caused problems.

One, starting school. The other, problems with advancement in their Church.

The one starting school came up against an administrator who held fast to the "mandatory" birth date to start school. Twins born minutes apart around Midnight. Before midnight - just made the cutoff to start school. After midnight, one day later & missed the cutoff so started that grade a year after his brother.(identical twins) Parents did not have the money to hire an attorney & the administrator would not bend at all. Caused problems that plagued the kids for a long time.

The other, a church rule. Birth right at midnight, New Years Eve/New Years day. Again, roulette with the Bishop of their church - another rule bound type.

Kid born just before midnight was "a year older" on paper so was ordained a Deacon in his church the year he turned 11. His identical twin brother was not ordained a deacon until the next year - the year he turned 11. He did have the distinction of being "first baby of the New Year" where it happened so the family got a ton of presents & such for him - and just the bills for the first son.

We know at times the kid has no say of parents are adament about holding a kid out/or back for a year. Then comes medical reasons for some. Or Home Schooling & transition to regular school & the kid tests far behind for the indicated year & is now older than his classmates.

We live with what happens & it is not always good for the kids. 

When in High School we had a wrestler who was way more mature. Very good wrestler. Was disqualified when protests were made & investigation placed him at 23 years old. Was living in the Indian Dormatories, born on the Reservation and no Birth Certificate available. He was not a big kid - wrestled about 145 or so - but much more mature than everyone else. Once off the team he walked out of the dorms & left. Apparently hitched rides back to The Big Rez - this was 1960's.

Just some interesting stuff. 

 

[GimJustafan]

bob to the bassets 

 

 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

And that’s only 3 months older than Bo…

(but I know you are not complaining about Bo)

UWW says he will be 19 this year?  Meaning before January 1st, 2026.

[JimmyCinnabon]

Why are people so upset about someone spending an extra year in school? I really don't get how upset people are over this. People are losing their minds.