Real American Freestyle

[Fletcher]

4 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Ryne Sandburg

NO! But I will pour out some Colt 45 on the curb for my homie. RIP Ryno.

[WrestlingRasta]

30 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

NO! But I will pour out some Colt 45 on the curb for my homie. RIP Ryno.

Yeah.  Was only 65.   Prostate…

[GrandOlm]

I did here a comment about how wrestling fans need to get over being interested in more than #1 v #2. That's a problem almost every individual sport has. Team sports in theory represent more than the individual, as in a school, neighborhood, village/town/city, region, or nation (yes that's a farce a lot of the time with these differently colored logos pulling and trading among the same pool of vagrant athletes, but the pretense is still there).

So yeah people will watch even if it's not the best of the best, because they gave the something else in common. 

A big part of college wrestling's appeal, over generic senior level freestyle, is the shared identify of going to the same school.

Edited July 29 by GrandOlm

[Yellow_Medal]

Couldn’t find the start time anywhere on their website. Had to click on buy a ticket to have Ticketmaster inform me that it starts 7PM ET. Wrestling websites suck, Flo included, and I’ve earned the right to complain as a decade-plus Flo subscriber. For example, trying to just watch the finals of some major freestyle tournaments without knowing which mat they were broadcast on is near impossible. I mean really RAF? You have the date at the top of the page but no time? Do you want me to watch this or not?

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, Yellow_Medal said:

Couldn’t find the start time anywhere on their website. Had to click on buy a ticket to have Ticketmaster inform me that it starts 7PM ET. Wrestling websites suck, Flo included, and I’ve earned the right to complain as a decade-plus Flo subscriber. For example, trying to just watch the finals of some major freestyle tournaments without knowing which mat they were broadcast on is near impossible. I mean really RAF? You have the date at the top of the page but no time? Do you want me to watch this or not?

Bear with me here. But if you go to FloArena (or USA Bracketing/TrackWrestling), and go to the dashboard, it has a list of every match that's going on on every mat at that given time. This is not a hard problem to solve brother. 

[Yellow_Medal]

Bear with me here. But if you go to FloArena (or USA Bracketing/TrackWrestling), and go to the dashboard, it has a list of every match that's going on on every mat at that given time. This is not a hard problem to solve brother. 

I was referring to rewatching the finals that have already occurred. I have zero problem doing what you described while watching a live event. The point is, why don’t they just post a video labeled “Ranking series mens freestyle finals”? That sounds logical to me. I’m pretty tech savvy, I edit my own videos, make websites, edit audio in DAW, etc. I always end up finding how to watch what I’m looking for on Flo, but they often make it unnecessarily complicated.

[alex1fly]

25 minutes ago, Yellow_Medal said:

I was referring to rewatching the finals that have already occurred. I have zero problem doing what you described while watching a live event. The point is, why don’t they just post a video labeled “Ranking series mens freestyle finals”? That sounds logical to me. I’m pretty tech savvy, I edit my own videos, make websites, edit audio in DAW, etc. I always end up finding how to watch what I’m looking for on Flo, but they often make it unnecessarily complicated.

+1

An ounce of effort would yield a pound of results. or something else wise like that. 

You edit audio? I was just helping my wife do a voiceover in Ableton Live last night. Couldn't resist the urge to pitch shift her voice and loop it.

[Yellow_Medal]

+1
An ounce of effort would yield a pound of results. or something else wise like that. 
You edit audio? I was just helping my wife do a voiceover in Ableton Live last night. Couldn't resist the urge to pitch shift her voice and loop it.

Nice. Once you start audio production, you can’t you won’t and you don’t stop! Yeah, I sympathize with what Spey said on FRL about them working constantly to both cover an event while simultaneously having to upload film, etc. The thing they could improve drastically upon with little effort, however, is standardization. Seems like it varies wildly from employee to employee how they tag, label, and organize their videos. Just standardizing that to be user friendly would go a long way.

[Yellow_Medal]

But…back to RAF. I couldn’t even find the start time on their X feed! If they don’t know the time, then put TBD. Come on Brain, do you want people to sign up and watch or not?

[MPhillips]

https://www.realamericanfreestyle.com/#events

Anyone have any luck with the promo code?

[Yellow_Medal]

https://www.realamericanfreestyle.com/#events
Anyone have any luck with the promo code?

Haven’t tried yet. Will report when I do

[bnwtwg]

56 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

https://www.realamericanfreestyle.com/#events

Anyone have any luck with the promo code?

No because I refuse to actively support anything Fox/NewsCorp related if I can help it. (and yes i recognize the irony of a Cutty pic while boycotting Fox)

[MPhillips]

2 hours ago, Yellow_Medal said:

Haven’t tried yet. Will report when I do

It's 1.99 the first month and 7.99 the rest with the promo code. RAF

The annual fee comes out to 4.99 a month no promo BILLED ANNUALY. 59.49 bill in a week.

[ionel]

27 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

It's 1.99 the first month and 7.99 the rest with the promo code. RAF

The annual fee comes out to 4.99 a month no promo BILLED ANNUALY. 59.49 bill in a week.

How can it be $1.99 or $4.99?  Thought we got rid (or in process) of the penny.  Gonna make it hard to pay don't ya think?  

[GimJustafan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/real-american-freestyle-wrestling-to-debut-live-on-fox-nation-aug-30/vi-AA1IZXbG?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=eb3bbbb76bd441e59becb3cd3699ae43&ei=30#

[Husker_Du]

Here's a link for group ticket discounts. 

if you run a club don't use that one, use this one which can get prizes.

[flyingcement]

On 8/4/2025 at 7:55 AM, Husker_Du said:

Here's a link for group ticket discounts. 

if you run a club don't use that one, use this one which can get prizes.

pretty good prices.  if I was anywhere near Cleveland, I would be there.  

[Ohio Elite]

Just stumbled on this, but Fox Nation has a promo for Active Milary, Veterans and First Responders.

1 Year Free Subscription!!

I didn't believe it so I tried it out. 

Seems to be Legit. I'm watching it now!

[BAC]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing how this is going to work. 

The main problem is that it's just freestyle.  Don't get me wrong -- I love freestyle. No other sport I'd rather watch.  But the truth is, the bleachers are pretty empty even in nationals and WTTs. It's a small community, not particularly moneyed, and it's hard enough to get them to come out when there's actually something on the line.  We know the typical attendance figures for freestyle events, and we know they aren't financially viable.

I just don't see the plan. 

It isn't that nothing's being done.  I see the social media, I see the prize links to high school teams, the drawing for a free camp.  That's nice.  Maybe it bumps the attendance a bit.  But even if it's on the above-average side of a typical freestyle event, that's still a long way from being financially viable.

Forgive my rant, but:

1. Better Cross-Selling

They could have tried to cross-sell it with another sport which similarly has a modest fan base -- e.g. BJJ, grappling, judo.  Not seeing that.  Even if it's just one or two match, these smaller sports can cross-sell. 

They'd also be wise to find a way to work with MMA on this, because otherwise, MMA will see them as competition.  Maybe build in some advertising for them, and have some UFC people there.  We can't portray ourselves as some sort of minor league for UFC, but the sports are symbiotic and both can play off that.

Similarly, it sucks that Hulk passed, but I'd have thought they could cross-sell to the pro wrestling crowd too.  Not my jam, but those guys fill huge arenas. Maybe they were trying, I don't know, but that's going to be a tough sell without a pro wrestling "face".  

They also could mix something else in the event which pulls out the non-wrestling crowd or at least wrestling fans' families or significant others -- e.g. some well-known performer at intermission, MMA celebrities, etc.   Not seeing that either.  

The reason it's so important to attract an audience outside the typical freestyle crowd isn't just that the numbers are too low without them.  It's sponsorships.  Companies like Defense Soap and Rudis only have so much ad money to go around, and to be viable, you need to attract some of the bigger dogs.

2. Making the Event More Exciting

If they're not going to do any of that stuff, then they really need to do something to amp up the excitement level in the wrestling itself.  But I don't see that either.

For example, build in mini events within the wrestling itself.  A big prize if someone hits a 5 pointer, or a pin under a minute, or something that creates a huge incentive to do something wild.  Something that totally changes the complexion of the match to see if anyone's going to pull it off.  I'm not seeing that.  

They could shake it up by mixing up the rules to make it more offensive-action oriented or throw-oriented, or dramatically change the scoring, so it's constant attempts to score.  (I made a separate post about that a while back.)  Doesn't appear to be in the works.

They also could mess with the scoring by giving guys a "handicap" like it's golf (e.g. spotting points to the underdog), so you can have more on-paper mismatches or bumping up weights. 

But everything I've heard so far is that it just isn't varying much from a standard freesyle dual that doesn't vary much from tradition.

3.  Where's the "League"?

The most frustrating thing to me is that what's billed as a "league" really just looks like a Flowrestling Night in America event.  If you're gonna do a league, do a league.  Have a draft, talk it up. Have the "teams" based in specific cities.  Create an actual team, which develops actual fans, who actually follow said teams.  Get creative about how team score is kept to keep it exciting. Get the smack talk going, get the interviews before and after going, have a process for trade, have a well-known coach for each team -- even if the coach(es) are crossover guys.  Maybe have the coaches wrestle if the team score is tied.  

If this is too heavy a lift, maybe contract with the RTCs. Those are existing teams of freestyle athletes who have no one to compete against except themselves when not in international competition.  Even better, if you do that, maybe doing a licensing deal with universities, you can tap into collegiate allegiances to build out your fan base.  Why not link up with them?

In fairness, my guess is that they know there's too small a demand to create an actual league right out of the gate, and they're doing this event more to whet the appetite and build a brand, sort of a "proof of concept."  I agree that makes sense, as the fan base is too small as it is. But even if so, that should be made more clear, and the design of the event should serve as a buildup to that -- explicitly, and with some context for the vision, so it gets talked up. It's also all the more reason to really change things up and do something extraordinarily fan friendly and action-friendly, widening the audience while exciting the bases.  

4.  Unique matchups.

What's more, even among existing fans of freestyle wrestling, you need to create a product that they want to see.  For that, you need good matchups.  Honestly, they're pretty lackluster.  Several are decent, but it begs for a headliner.  Get me a Gable vs. Snyder, or Spencer vs Jax, or Nickal versus an actual bear (OK maybe not), or AJ vs. Starocci, or Starocci vs. Bartlett (LOL), or Taylor vs. Dake part XVIII.  Or go the generational route, putting in the top current guys against some top high school guys with huge social media followings. They've done some of this, pulling in Nickal and old-timers like Palmer and Caldwell.  

***

Bottom line is this:  What I'm seeing is a lack of risk taking.  The built-in audience is simply too small for this, so you need to do something more than just talk it up on twitter and having drawings, because even if that works you'll still fall short.  A rehash of RPW or RWL is going to hit a wall real fast. 

Maybe they've got Elon Musk secretly bankrolling them for $500 million and so they're fine with taking a loss, so they can afford to make it an event for freestyle purists. But I suspect all they've really got it some decent seed money, which is going to dry up real fast if they can't present a viable vision with a path to profit.

[MPhillips]

On 6/14/2025 at 2:25 AM, MPhillips said:

How does it make money? 

 

[ionel]

17 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

 

[GimJustafan]

11 hours ago, BAC said:

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing how this is going to work. 

The main problem is that it's just freestyle.  Don't get me wrong -- I love freestyle. No other sport I'd rather watch.  But the truth is, the bleachers are pretty empty even in nationals and WTTs. It's a small community, not particularly moneyed, and it's hard enough to get them to come out when there's actually something on the line.  We know the typical attendance figures for freestyle events, and we know they aren't financially viable.

I just don't see the plan. 

It isn't that nothing's being done.  I see the social media, I see the prize links to high school teams, the drawing for a free camp.  That's nice.  Maybe it bumps the attendance a bit.  But even if it's on the above-average side of a typical freestyle event, that's still a long way from being financially viable.

Forgive my rant, but:

1. Better Cross-Selling

They could have tried to cross-sell it with another sport which similarly has a modest fan base -- e.g. BJJ, grappling, judo.  Not seeing that.  Even if it's just one or two match, these smaller sports can cross-sell. 

They'd also be wise to find a way to work with MMA on this, because otherwise, MMA will see them as competition.  Maybe build in some advertising for them, and have some UFC people there.  We can't portray ourselves as some sort of minor league for UFC, but the sports are symbiotic and both can play off that.

Similarly, it sucks that Hulk passed, but I'd have thought they could cross-sell to the pro wrestling crowd too.  Not my jam, but those guys fill huge arenas. Maybe they were trying, I don't know, but that's going to be a tough sell without a pro wrestling "face".  

They also could mix something else in the event which pulls out the non-wrestling crowd or at least wrestling fans' families or significant others -- e.g. some well-known performer at intermission, MMA celebrities, etc.   Not seeing that either.  

The reason it's so important to attract an audience outside the typical freestyle crowd isn't just that the numbers are too low without them.  It's sponsorships.  Companies like Defense Soap and Rudis only have so much ad money to go around, and to be viable, you need to attract some of the bigger dogs.

2. Making the Event More Exciting

If they're not going to do any of that stuff, then they really need to do something to amp up the excitement level in the wrestling itself.  But I don't see that either.

For example, build in mini events within the wrestling itself.  A big prize if someone hits a 5 pointer, or a pin under a minute, or something that creates a huge incentive to do something wild.  Something that totally changes the complexion of the match to see if anyone's going to pull it off.  I'm not seeing that.  

They could shake it up by mixing up the rules to make it more offensive-action oriented or throw-oriented, or dramatically change the scoring, so it's constant attempts to score.  (I made a separate post about that a while back.)  Doesn't appear to be in the works.

They also could mess with the scoring by giving guys a "handicap" like it's golf (e.g. spotting points to the underdog), so you can have more on-paper mismatches or bumping up weights. 

But everything I've heard so far is that it just isn't varying much from a standard freesyle dual that doesn't vary much from tradition.

3.  Where's the "League"?

The most frustrating thing to me is that what's billed as a "league" really just looks like a Flowrestling Night in America event.  If you're gonna do a league, do a league.  Have a draft, talk it up. Have the "teams" based in specific cities.  Create an actual team, which develops actual fans, who actually follow said teams.  Get creative about how team score is kept to keep it exciting. Get the smack talk going, get the interviews before and after going, have a process for trade, have a well-known coach for each team -- even if the coach(es) are crossover guys.  Maybe have the coaches wrestle if the team score is tied.  

If this is too heavy a lift, maybe contract with the RTCs. Those are existing teams of freestyle athletes who have no one to compete against except themselves when not in international competition.  Even better, if you do that, maybe doing a licensing deal with universities, you can tap into collegiate allegiances to build out your fan base.  Why not link up with them?

In fairness, my guess is that they know there's too small a demand to create an actual league right out of the gate, and they're doing this event more to whet the appetite and build a brand, sort of a "proof of concept."  I agree that makes sense, as the fan base is too small as it is. But even if so, that should be made more clear, and the design of the event should serve as a buildup to that -- explicitly, and with some context for the vision, so it gets talked up. It's also all the more reason to really change things up and do something extraordinarily fan friendly and action-friendly, widening the audience while exciting the bases.  

4.  Unique matchups.

What's more, even among existing fans of freestyle wrestling, you need to create a product that they want to see.  For that, you need good matchups.  Honestly, they're pretty lackluster.  Several are decent, but it begs for a headliner.  Get me a Gable vs. Snyder, or Spencer vs Jax, or Nickal versus an actual bear (OK maybe not), or AJ vs. Starocci, or Starocci vs. Bartlett (LOL), or Taylor vs. Dake part XVIII.  Or go the generational route, putting in the top current guys against some top high school guys with huge social media followings. They've done some of this, pulling in Nickal and old-timers like Palmer and Caldwell.  

***

Bottom line is this:  What I'm seeing is a lack of risk taking.  The built-in audience is simply too small for this, so you need to do something more than just talk it up on twitter and having drawings, because even if that works you'll still fall short.  A rehash of RPW or RWL is going to hit a wall real fast. 

Maybe they've got Elon Musk secretly bankrolling them for $500 million and so they're fine with taking a loss, so they can afford to make it an event for freestyle purists. But I suspect all they've really got it some decent seed money, which is going to dry up real fast if they can't present a viable vision with a path to profit.

great post with a ton of viable?'s 

wrestling while it is loved by its loyal fan base it is extremely small market as you pointed out bleachers are pretty empty even in nationals and WTTs-  its similar to Jai alai / small market and most have no ideas on the rules 

 

not exactly a packed house for the above event