Program culture issues at NLWC/PSU? Thomas Gilman

[fishbane]

47 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

The amount of excuses and apologists are amazing.  As someone who has been in education and athletics for decades, I had a feeling there might be repercussions for the suspension.  I was ridiculed by blue and white wearing white knights.  This consequence wasn't from PSU directly, but if they are aware, they can't be happy.  Now the apologists are largely disappearing.

I do wonder if DT said: "Thomas, you're not going to be able to coach for a while, I can't employ you."

Unlikely that his USADA suspension would impact his ability to coach an NCAA team.  USAW membership is not required.

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Unlikely that his USADA suspension would impact his ability to coach an NCAA team.  USAW membership is not required.

what if said ncaa institution is ethical?   It may be why he went from idgaf to appealing no?   Weren’t you one of the idgaf psu fans earlier in this thread ?
 

A suspension from the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) for drug test-related violations primarily affects your eligibility as an athlete. However, transitioning to a coaching role, such as coaching NCAA wrestling, involves additional considerations:U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)+2SwimSwam+2U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)+2

NCAA Regulations:

• Coaching Eligibility: The NCAA enforces strict standards of ethical conduct for coaches. Violations, particularly those involving ethical breaches or misconduct, can lead to disciplinary actions, including suspensions or show-cause penalties. A show-cause penalty requires any NCAA institution hiring the penalized coach to demonstrate why they should not face sanctions for employing that individual. This often deters institutions from hiring coaches with such penalties. NCAA+1Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

• Impact of USADA Sanctions: While a USADA suspension directly impacts athletic participation, it can also raise concerns about a coach's commitment to fair play and adherence to anti-doping regulations. NCAA institutions may consider these factors when evaluating potential coaching candidates.

Case Studies:

• Donnie Tyndall: The former head basketball coach received a 10-year show-cause penalty from the NCAA for violations related to academic fraud and financial misconduct. This penalty effectively barred him from coaching at the collegiate level during its duration. Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2Wikipedia

• Brad Bohannon: The former Alabama baseball coach was issued a 15-year show-cause penalty by the NCAA due to involvement in gambling activities and non-cooperation with investigations. This severe penalty underscores the NCAA's stringent stance on ethical violations. Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2Wikipedia

Conclusion:

While a USADA suspension does not automatically disqualify you from coaching NCAA wrestling, it can significantly impact your employability. NCAA institutions prioritize ethical conduct and adherence to regulations; thus, a history of anti-doping violations may be viewed unfavorably during the hiring process. It's essential to demonstrate a commitment to integrity and compliance with all relevant policies to enhance your prospects in securing a coaching position.

Edited May 29 by Caveira

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Unlikely that his USADA suspension would impact his ability to coach an NCAA team.  USAW membership is not required.

He doesn’t coach an NCAA team…

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Also weird that the podcast hosts were thinking that looking for grey areas and loopholes in the suspension rules was ok.  Actually just talking about plain disregard for the rules.

I think that was just Willie TBH.

However, Basch acknowledged that his initial opinion was that Gilman DGAF, but backtracked off of that while claiming he had no inside knowledge.  But Basch was Gilman’s first interview after he left OSU, I’d be surprised if he hadn’t heard from Gilman before he commented on this story.  Kinda seems to me that Gilman really DGAF until he realized it could effect his coaching, but yes that’s just speculation.

But I also would bet Gilman didn’t realize he could be suspended until after he had already left OSU.

[Caveira]

If Gilman truly dgaf.  I guess that’s possible but who was advising him?  You can possibly forfeit  your ability to compete which is very reasonable given his age….   Or…. Who cares retire…….   Or….. just hide from the testing and potentially forfeit your ability to make a financial living via coaching etc….    

sometimes what is real is what is most plausible.  

if “hopped up on steroids” and old.   Just retire.  

if “not hopped up on steroids”….   Just test.   

if I still wanna compete but I don’t wanna test…. Who knows.  

else.    What a mystery.  

[1032004]

15 minutes ago, Caveira said:

If Gilman truly dgaf.  I guess that’s possible but who was advising him?  You can possibly forfeit  your ability to compete which is very reasonable given his age….   Or…. Who cares retire…….   Or….. just hide from the testing and potentially forfeit your ability to make a financial living via coaching etc….    

sometimes what is real is what is most plausible.  

if “hopped up on steroids” and old.   Just retire.  

if “not hopped up on steroids”….   Just test.   

if I still wanna compete but I don’t wanna test…. Who knows.  

else.    What a mystery.  

I think it’s reasonable to believe he didn’t realize a USADA suspension could effect his coaching.

[ionel]

25 minutes ago, Caveira said:

If Gilman truly dgaf.

 Who knows.  

 What a mystery.  

[Caveira]

16 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think it’s reasonable to believe he didn’t realize a USADA suspension could effect his coaching.

Who were his advisors then?   Surely okst or nlwc or psu have people who help with this crap.  I don’t believe that’s plausible unless he 100% hid whatever his intentions were (steroids retirement whatever) and didn’t ask anyone for advice.     Or he got shyte advice.  
 

Shyte or no advice?   Maybe porta or the other psu apologists know?   

Edited May 29 by Caveira

[CHROMEBIRD]

57 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Who were his advisors then?   Surely okst or nlwc or psu have people who help with this crap.  I don’t believe that’s plausible unless he 100% hid whatever his intentions were (steroids retirement whatever) and didn’t ask anyone for advice.     Or he got shyte advice.  
 

Shyte or no advice?   Maybe porta or the other psu apologists know?   

On the NCAA side, OSU and PSU each have entire compliance departments to make sure he was following the rules. On the club side, I'm guessing that the RTCs are on their own when it comes to onsite monitoring and compliance. 

Anyway, I wonder if Ben Provisor's situation is similar to Gilman's. He was sanctioned earlier this year for three straight Whereabouts misses in 2024 and was hit with the same suspension. No idea what Provisor is up to these days, but it wouldn't surprise me if he retired and assumed he could ignore the USADA Whereabouts submission deadlines; it sounds like a real chore (e.g., logging daily overnight locations, training & work schedule, doing educational tutorials) if you're not competing. Plus, he challenged the Whereabouts failure and requested a review, where maybe he said he was done with the sport. Wrestlers in the testing pool who retire are required to notify the USADA, UWW, and USAW in writing and there's a whole process involved. If Provisor didn't do any of that, it could explain why his sanctions were upheld by the USADA.

I don't know if the suspensions limit Provisor or Gilman from coaching at the RTC or NCAA levels, but it sounds like wrestlers who get any sort of coaching or assistance from them could be in violation of the WADA Prohibited Association Rule. Not sure.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 hours ago, fishbane said:

Unlikely that his USADA suspension would impact his ability to coach an NCAA team.  USAW membership is not required.

But couldn't be around the RTC guys... and bad look for program to have a coach under usada suspension...

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Also: We all know that RTC athletes and coaches make their way into NCAA practices.  Generally speaking: Athletic administrators don't like individuals with "IDGAF" attitudes mentoring their athletes.  Its is probably magnified when that IDGAF attitude is regarding drug testing regulations.

[fishbane]

13 hours ago, 1032004 said:

He doesn’t coach an NCAA team…

Not any more, but I was responding to someone speculating that an eminent USADA suspension was the true reason for his exit in Stillwater.

13 hours ago, Caveira said:

what if said ncaa institution is ethical?   It may be why he went from idgaf to appealing no?

If the NCAA automatically enforced any WADA/USADA ban he'd be in trouble.  That isn't the case though and all those paragraphs you wrote about show cause don't really apply because he is already an employee.  NCAA would have to initiate the disciplinary process here rather than have the institution show cause why he should/could be hired.  Moreover, the examples you give are two individuals who actually broke NCAA rules.  The rule Gilman broke does not have a counterpart in the NCAA - there are no whereabouts requirements for NCAA athletes.  So I think that 1) the ban wouldn't be automatic and 2) OSU would not have had to show cause and could carry on until the if/when the NCAA initiated disciplinary action.

I don't know that OSU would take action on their own. Daton Fix wasn't sent packing when he tested positive and no coaches were publicly disciplined related to that.  It would seem that actually testing positive would be a more serious violation than missing whereabouts.  OSU also allowed Gilman to wrestle an exhibition match after one of their duals and that occurred after the three missed tests which were 28 April 2024, 12 August 2024, and 23 September 2024.

Finally, I don't know the nature of the appeal or what "accepted" means so it's all pretty speculative at this point.   The 18 month ban starts from the date Gilman "accepted" the ban which is May 16.  Accepting it as soon as possible might have a strategy to get the clock ticking on the ban especially if it didn't impact his appeal rights, rather than not gaf, admitting his guilt, or not thinking he had any chance at winning an appeal.

14 hours ago, Caveira said:

 Weren’t you one of the idgaf psu fans earlier in this thread ?

I don't believe so.  I don't think I commented in this thread or on this topic until after I had already seen the Willie/Basch podcast and the prospect of the ban interfering with him coaching at NLWC was brought up in that podcast, so I was aware this could be a problem for Gilman before posting in this thread.  However, I don't really gaf about his coaching eligibility one way or the other.  In general I don't think USAW should allow an athlete under a USADA doping ban to coach.

[1032004]

17 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Not any more, but I was responding to someone speculating that an eminent USADA suspension was the true reason for his exit in Stillwater.

 

Gotcha.  Yeah I’d be shocked if that had anything to do with it for other reasons, most notably him openly talking about how he “didn’t get along with some people on the staff.”

Unless maybe one of them was the compliance person…

[VakAttack]

 

 

[bnwtwg]

Chapel Hill: if we sniff the tiniest hint of trouble we will move on from a top recruit before classes even begin. It's all about program culture around here

Happy Valley: if you don't give a fvck about drug testing we welcome you with open arms

[fishbane]

13 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Chapel Hill: if we sniff the tiniest hint of trouble we will move on from a top recruit before classes even begin. It's all about program culture around here

Happy Valley: if you don't give a fvck about drug testing we welcome you with open arms

I always thought UNC would be a good fit for Ferrari with their vast paper class options.  

[1032004]

34 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I always thought UNC would be a good fit for Ferrari with their vast paper class options.  

I thought UNC kinda nipped that in the bud after the last scandal 

[CHROMEBIRD]

3 hours ago, fishbane said:

Finally, I don't know the nature of the appeal or what "accepted" means so it's all pretty speculative at this point.   The 18 month ban starts from the date Gilman "accepted" the ban which is May 16.  Accepting it as soon as possible might have a strategy to get the clock ticking on the ban especially if it didn't impact his appeal rights, rather than not gaf, admitting his guilt, or not thinking he had any chance at winning an appeal.

Accepting the sanction ASAP is a smart move if he's on the fence about competing again. A weird thing is that if Gilman is actually retiring from the sport, we likely won't hear anything about it for the next 18 months. The USADA has a rule where if a sanctioned athlete retires, their penalty clock is paused and then resumed if they ever come out of retirement.