Is DT to Iowa inevitable?

[Caveira]

27 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

Well, please go on the NCAA website and let me know who won 2020 ncaa’s.

And sure, brands can get some credit, but maybe buchanan should get credit for not getting too broken by their training.    How did Parco and Teemer perform?  Injuring your athletes counts as bad coaching too.

Edit: I also want to be clear, I’m not anti-Iowa, a stellar Iowa program is sorely missed, but we have to admit that the brands ability to develop world beaters stops at 133. Obviously they’ve built a ton of successful athletes in those weight classes, but their methodology doesn’t translate above those weights, both from strategy and joint integrity perspectives.

Some numbers.  Any guess what they are ?  In the last 20 years or so 

average = -3.94

# of times / pct: 68.4

raw:   1, -5, -16, -11, , -2,-3, 1, -10, 1,3,-5, 1,2,-3,-1,-5,-15,-4. 

Edited Thursday at 10:30 PM by Caveira

[wrestle87]

8 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Some numbers.  Any guess what they are ?  In the last 20 years or so 

average = -3.94

# of times / pct: 68.4

raw:   1, -5, -16, -11, , -2,-3, 1, -10, 1,3,-5, 1,2,-3,-1,-5,-15,-4. 

I have no idea but my knee jerk is to say the average match differential in the number of shots taken by iowa wrestlers vs their opponents over the course of each season.

[Perry]

Taylor is where Taylor is and it's isn't changing. The only job I could see him leaving for is Penn state which wont open up any time soon I imagine.

[Caveira]

18 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

I have no idea but my knee jerk is to say the average match differential in the number of shots taken by iowa wrestlers vs their opponents over the course of each season.

-3.94.   Is the average number where Okla st finished vs Iowa.  Meaning over 20 years they are usually 4 spots lower.  
 

68.4 %.  Is the # of times Iowa placed higher at the ncaa tourney than Okla st.  
 

raw is just the raw data.  They were 16,11,10,15 places behind Iowa 4 of those years respectively.    Iowa’s furthest finish was 3 places behind okla st.  
 

enjoy.  

Edited Thursday at 11:02 PM by Caveira

[BruceyB]

9 minutes ago, Caveira said:

-3.94.   Is the average number where Okla st finished vs Iowa.  Meaning over 20 years they are usually 4 spots lower.  
 

68.4 %.  Is the # of times Iowa placed higher at the ncaa tourney than Okla st.  
 

raw is just the raw data.  They were 16,11,10,15 places behind Iowa 4 of those years respectively.    Iowa’s furthest finish was 3 places behind okla st.  
 

enjoy.  

You're comparing what these teams have done in the past. We're talking about what's on the horizon with the David Taylor regime. Find me one Iowa fan that thinks they're on a better path for success than OKST right now..

[ionel]

41 minutes ago, Caveira said:

-3.94.   Is the average number where Okla st finished vs Iowa.  Meaning over 20 years they are usually 4 spots lower.  
 

68.4 %.  Is the # of times Iowa placed higher at the ncaa tourney than Okla st.  
 

... and what would those numbers be if you just did the David Taylor vs Tom Brands era?  

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

... and what would those numbers be if you just did the David Taylor vs Tom Brands era?  

Dt has no era as of yet.  It’s ambiguous.  

[1032004]

2 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Do you mean the 2020-21 season?

2020 never got wrestled, and in 2021 they kinda shat the bed and left a ton of personal goals on the table.  That was not a glistening example of peak performance by any stretch.

I’m not looking at Marinelli, Eierman and Kemdog all losing in pretty brutal fashion as a successful tournament. 

Failing to get your 9th year seniors to the top of the podium in a year when Penn State isn’t really trying is cause for reflection, not celebration.

Who has won an NCAA title for Iowa in the past 20 years that wasn’t an absolute freak coming out of high school? I’ll wait…

DT got two massive underdogs to the top of the podium in his first year alone.  He’s not responsible for anything that happened in years prior.  Nice gentle tractoring of the goalposts with that one though.

Winning a team title is still more “momentous” than taking 3rd, sorry.

And how in the world was PSU “not really trying” in 2021?  That’s just revisionist history, they started their best guy at every weight. 

I’m not a recruiting expert but doing a quick search it looks like Clark was ranked in the 20’s and Ramos about #10.  Maybe you’d still call that “monsters,” but by comparison looks like Hamiti was #6 for example.  And Hendrickson had placed 3rd in back to back years, he was already a “monster” but yes it was still a massive upset of course.

 

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

Well, please go on the NCAA website and let me know who won 2020 ncaa’s.

And sure, brands can get some credit, but maybe buchanan should get credit for not getting too broken by their training.    How did Parco and Teemer perform?  Injuring your athletes counts as bad coaching too.

Edit: I also want to be clear, I’m not anti-Iowa, a stellar Iowa program is sorely missed, but we have to admit that the brands ability to develop world beaters stops at 133. Obviously they’ve built a ton of successful athletes in those weight classes, but their methodology doesn’t translate above those weights, both from strategy and joint integrity perspectives.

Lol c’mon, Parco literally got hurt at NCAA’s.  Teemer hardly wrestled (allegedly hardly practiced too), doesn’t seem like his injury had to do with “getting broken from training.”   I guess we should knock Cael for Kerkvliet then, huh?  But speaking of Cael, I think he’s the only one really “developing world beaters” (plural) especially if you’re excluding 20% of the weight classes.

I agree that DT/OSU is likely going to pass them by (and I don’t see DT leaving nor Iowa even being able to beat what he’s being paid), but I wouldn’t say they already have.

[wrestle87]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Dt has no era as of yet.  It’s ambiguous.  

Now I know we’re being taken for a grand ride on the trollercoaster.  Nicely done.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Dt has no era as of yet.  It’s ambiguous.  

Well then 20 years is rather ambiguous so let's just do all of D1 wrestling history.  

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, wrestle87 said:

Now I know we’re being taken for a grand ride on the trollercoaster.  Nicely done.

Define his era for me then.  On your magic troller coaster. 

[wrestle87]

Is this actually how Iowa fans analyze your own coaching and team performance?  Like you’re committing a sacred sin by saying something against two of the program’s most storied wrestlers as coaches.

Guys, come on.  You are leaving so much on the table every year.

You are being out wrestled and out-innovated by concepts developed DURING THE BRANDS ERA!  This is ‘t international black magic, it’s home grown innovation fed by generous pockets, but not pockets any deeper than what you have in Iowa City.  C’mon, you’re a part of the sport and we need Iowa strong and innovative long term.

Yes it’s unfair, but Iowa is still the flagbearer for so much of the grass roots part of the sport.  You can’t just say “yeah but Cael’s impossible to beat” and leave it there.

Please be more objectively critical, don’t settle for second, demand the best and nothing less from your program.

I feel like I’m trying to encourage a younger sibling to stay engaged in a game after they’ve started crying and gone and sat on the side.

Iowa homers, hard core fans, we need you guys to give many f*cks about this.

Edited Thursday at 11:58 PM by wrestle87

[1032004]

9 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

Is this actually how Iowa fans analyze your own coaching and team performance?  Like you’re committing a sacred sin by saying something against two of the program’s most storied wrestlers as coaches.

Guys, come on.  You are leaving so much on the table every year.

You are being out wrestled and out-innovated by concepts developed DURING THE BRANDS ERA!  This is ‘t international black magic, it’s home grown innovation fed by generous pockets, but not pockets any deeper than what you have in Iowa City.  C’mon, you’re a part of the sport and we need Iowa strong and innovative long term.

Yes it’s unfair, but Iowa is still the flagbearer for so much of the grass roots part of the sport.  You can’t just say “yeah but Cael’s impossible to beat” and leave it there.

Please be more objectively critical, don’t settle for second, demand the best and nothing less from your program.

I feel like I’m trying to encourage a younger sibling to stay engaged in a game after they’ve started crying and gone and sat on the side.

Iowa homers, hard core fans, we need you guys to give many f*cks about this.

You said Penn State wasn’t trying in 2021 lol

[Caveira]

21 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

Is this actually how Iowa fans analyze your own coaching and team performance?  Like you’re committing a sacred sin by saying something against two of the program’s most storied wrestlers as coaches.

Guys, come on.  You are leaving so much on the table every year.

You are being out wrestled and out-innovated by concepts developed DURING THE BRANDS ERA!  This is ‘t international black magic, it’s home grown innovation fed by generous pockets, but not pockets any deeper than what you have in Iowa City.  C’mon, you’re a part of the sport and we need Iowa strong and innovative long term.

Yes it’s unfair, but Iowa is still the flagbearer for so much of the grass roots part of the sport.  You can’t just say “yeah but Cael’s impossible to beat” and leave it there.

Please be more objectively critical, don’t settle for second, demand the best and nothing less from your program.

I feel like I’m trying to encourage a younger sibling to stay engaged in a game after they’ve started crying and gone and sat on the side.

Iowa homers, hard core fans, we need you guys to give many f*cks about this.

Iowa.   +4 on average for two decades over okst. Okst jokers.   We need you to give many farks about this. 

[BruceyB]

9 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Winning a team title is still more “momentous” than taking 3rd, sorry.

Well, I'd say they failed to use the momentum then. They have zero notable wrestlers on their roster from the 2022 class, only Arnold and Kueter from 2023, and Ferrari from 2024. Three relevant names on their roster from the three recruiting classes after their momentous national title? OKST took third this year, crowned two champions (something that Iowa hasn't done since Metcalf and Borschel), and in the last two months they have secured 4 top ten commits from the 2026 class. Iowa has only had one class since their championship with 2 top 10 recruits. So I'd say the third place finish has proven more momentous to recruits. 

I'm not happy about it, but that is just the reality of what has happened in the years following their title. I never thought Iowa would struggle with bringing in quality recruits. Hell, even when OKST was at their worst, the still had big name recruits, they just weren't developing them. There must be something going on with recruiting that is leading more top 50 wrestlers to schools like NCST and VT over a storied blue blood program.

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Well, I'd say they failed to use the momentum then. They have zero notable wrestlers on their roster from the 2022 class, only Arnold and Kueter from 2023, and Ferrari from 2024. Three relevant names on their roster from the three recruiting classes after their momentous national title? OKST took third this year, crowned two champions (something that Iowa hasn't done since Metcalf and Borschel), and in the last two months they have secured 4 top ten commits from the 2026 class. Iowa has only had one class since their championship with 2 top 10 recruits. So I'd say the third place finish has proven more momentous to recruits. 

I'm not happy about it, but that is just the reality of what has happened in the years following their title. I never thought Iowa would struggle with bringing in quality recruits. Hell, even when OKST was at their worst, the still had big name recruits, they just weren't developing them. There must be something going on with recruiting that is leading more top 50 wrestlers to schools like NCST and VT over a storied blue blood program.

You’re gonna name one team.    Please name them.  Just one team In the last 30 years that out performed Iowa other than current psu.  

[ironmonkey]

Hawkeyes had a good run 

[BruceyB]

Just now, Caveira said:

You’re gonna name one team.    Please name them.  Just one team In the last 30 years that out performed Iowa other than current psu.  

Bud, we are not talking about the past. We're literally talking about what is happening now. Oklahoma State has 7 top ten recruits between the 2025 and 2026 classes. Iowa has 2. And you're sitting here saying "Yeah, but we were better over the last 30 years!" Forget the last 30 years. Right here, right now. Which team is positioned better moving forward?

I'm mad at you Iowa fans for not being mad! How is landing 1 or 2 big recruits each year acceptable? How is a patchwork team of transfers because the team has no depth acceptable? You can love TnT and still expect more. You haven't had 2 national champions in the same year since METCALF AND BORSCHEL ffs.

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Bud, we are not talking about the past. We're literally talking about what is happening now. Oklahoma State has 7 top ten recruits between the 2025 and 2026 classes. Iowa has 2. And you're sitting here saying "Yeah, but we were better over the last 30 years!" Forget the last 30 years. Right here, right now. Which team is positioned better moving forward?

I'm mad at you Iowa fans for not being mad! How is landing 1 or 2 big recruits each year acceptable? How is a patchwork team of transfers because the team has no depth acceptable? You can love TnT and still expect more. You haven't had 2 national champions in the same year since METCALF AND BORSCHEL ffs.

I forgot his name. Buchanan?  I’m bad at name sir spelling. 

[BruceyB]

Live look at Iowa fans trying to find a reason to be optimistic. Sorry, @VakAttack. 

[ironmonkey]

I wonder if Bassett feels left out in the future OSU vs PSU battle for supremacy. 

[BruceyB]

4 minutes ago, ironmonkey said:

I wonder if Bassett feels left out in the future OSU vs PSU battle for supremacy. 

Bo Bassett looking for the rest of the blue chip recruits when he walks into the Iowa wrestling room.

[bnwtwg]

1 minute ago, BruceyB said:

Bo Bassett looking for the rest of the blue chip recruits when he walks into the Iowa wrestling room.

He has a massive NIL deal, but like my ex-wife's attorney once informed me about our prenup: contracts are made to be ripped up.

I genuinely believe that if he doesn't win a natty by his soph/second year of competition year then he is gone. I also believe that TnT can get the best out of him and that leaving for NCAA glory could be a short-sighted mistake. We honestly won't know until the 2036 quad is complete though.

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Bo Bassett looking for the rest of the blue chip recruits when he walks into the Iowa wrestling room.

 

3 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

He has a massive NIL deal, but like my ex-wife's attorney once informed me about our prenup: contracts are made to be ripped up.

But he'll have 4 teammates that can tell him stories of The Land of Orange and what could've been.  

[VakAttack]

I appreciate genuine heartfelt concern from non-Hawkeye fans, lol.  Truly genuine, I know.