World Team Trials

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, happyvalet said:

AB hasn't won a world title yet and he also hasn't hit his freestyle peak. Guys peak at different times.

Ab. Or so I’m told was closer To oly gold than Spencer Lee.   So.  He’s light years ahead of Cstar at this point. 

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, MJD said:

Sure but not many are winning gold after 25. Who was the oldest in USA in modern times? Maybe GOAT Bruce Baumgartner who won his second gold at, what 31 in 1992?

My brother..

All of Dake's Golds.. he was 27 or older

All of David Taylor's golds.. 27 or older and DT was 32 when he won his last World Gold.

All of Burroughs golds other than 2011 happened when he was 25 or older and his last gold was at 33

Gilman was 26.

Stieber was 25.

Micic was 27.

Snyder won gold at 26.

How many world gold medalists have been won by wrestling under 25 in the last 20 years in men's FS? Cejudo, Snyder.. and?

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

My brother..

All of Dake's Golds.. he was 27 or older

All of David Taylor's golds.. 27 or older and DT was 32 when he won his last World Gold.

All of Burroughs golds other than 2011 happened when he was 25 or older and his last gold was at 33

Gilman was 26.

Stieber was 25.

Micic was 27.

Snyder won gold at 26.

How many world gold medalists have been won by wrestling under 25 in the last 20 years in men's FS? Cejudo, Snyder.. and?

Snyder won at 19 first.  

[BruceyB]

5 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Snyder won at 19 first.  

Read the post I was responding to, and then read my post and figure out why I mentioned Kyle Snyder's name twice. You can figure this out. I believe in you.

[PortaJohn]

10 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

My brother..

All of Dake's Golds.. he was 27 or older

All of David Taylor's golds.. 27 or older and DT was 32 when he won his last World Gold.

All of Burroughs golds other than 2011 happened when he was 25 or older and his last gold was at 33

Gilman was 26.

Stieber was 25.

Micic was 27.

Snyder won gold at 26.

How many world gold medalists have been won by wrestling under 25 in the last 20 years in men's FS? Cejudo, Snyder.. and?

Gable Steveson & I dont know if Brandon Slay was at or just under 25 when he won it in 2000.  

[BruceyB]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

Gable Steveson & I dont know if Brandon Slay was at or just under 25 when he won it in 2000.  

I did say in the last 20 years, but Steveson was a glaring omission. But the main point was disputing the claim that "not many win gold after 25." The opposite is true. The majority of USA's gold's have been won by wrestlers 25 or older and winning a world title before the age of 25 is actually the outlier.

[boconnell]

25 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I did say in the last 20 years, but Steveson was a glaring omission. But the main point was disputing the claim that "not many win gold after 25." The opposite is true. The majority of USA's gold's have been won by wrestlers 25 or older and winning a world title before the age of 25 is actually the outlier.

I think a few young guys being crazy successful early makes people think that's what's supposed to happen.  But if the golden generation just concluding is headlined by JB/Snyder/Dake/Taylor then it's 50/50 on precocious phenoms and guys who hit their stride in their mid to late 20s.  So while it's very unlikely for any wrestler of any age to match those guys, someone being 25 doesn't remove them from the conversation.

[Crotalus]

I did say in the last 20 years, but Steveson was a glaring omission. But the main point was disputing the claim that "not many win gold after 25." The opposite is true. The majority of USA's gold's have been won by wrestlers 25 or older and winning a world title before the age of 25 is actually the outlier.

J'den Cox won gold in 2018 and 2019 when he would have been 23 and 24. He also had two bronze at 21 and 22, and a bronze and silver at 26 and 27, respectively.

Just adding another data point. Seems to be plenty of examples on both sides of age 25. Time will tell about Carter. Personally, I don't think his age matters much, but don't think he's dynamic enough to become a dominant force of the senior level scene (but wouldn't be shocked if he got a medal before all is said and done).

[bnwtwg]

6 hours ago, okokzach said:

Hillger can give Wyatt a run for his money. He's crafty 

 

6 hours ago, nhs67 said:

He can match tthe athleticism, for sure.

I am far more interested in this match rather than Big Meech.  Just not a good matchup for him.

lolno cmon. I'm a Hilger fan but there are levels to this. I'll field all bets for O/U 9.5 minutes total between the two matches next month and I'm taking the under. I'll happily be wrong but I'm confident.

[nhs67]

17 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

 

lolno cmon. I'm a Hilger fan but there are levels to this. I'll field all bets for O/U 9.5 minutes total between the two matches next month and I'm taking the under. I'll happily be wrong but I'm confident.

I would also take the under.

That doesn't change that this is a far better matchup for Hilger than it is Thomas.

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 hours ago, Caveira said:

I remember when some of y’all wanted cstar on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling.   It’s not like cstar is 3 business hours removed from his 5th ncaa title losing to old geriatric veterans…. Not the best look.  

Why do you always feel the need yo do this? Can you name a single person on this board who has Starocci on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling? You say you can remember this so I am sure this won't be challenging for you, right?

[Eagle26]

How could anyone think Carter Starocci is in his “freestyle prime”? Maybe his age is his physical prime, but there’s no way you can say he’s at the best he will ever be in freestyle. He’s been focused on folk style and has done very little freestyle (comparatively speaking). I was glad to see Dake win and I believe it was the right call, but I am not confident in a rematch as Carter continues to improve 

[peanut]

5 hours ago, Caveira said:

Snyder won his first world title at 19.   

Cejudo at 21

terry and tom brands 24 

John smith was 22 

big Bruce baumgartner was 22

Snyder was 20

steveson was 21 

Kolat was 24   

Aaron brooks was 24 
 

Carter starocci is 24.    How are you seriously playing the he isn’t on his prime nonsense   Psu fans wanted him on the Mount Rushmore of best ever.

 

 

Everyone develops only their own tracks. DT and Dake made their first world teams at 27, and still managed to pull down some impressive hardware.

It remains to be seen whether CStar sticks with freestyle, and if so how good he gets.

[Le duke]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wrestle87]

42 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Why do you always feel the need yo do this? Can you name a single person on this board who has Starocci on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling? You say you can remember this so I am sure this won't be challenging for you, right?

Too busy being overwhelmed by the tidal waves of success that HWC had at  trials this weekend.

How can you have success if you don’t even enter people?

 

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Why do you always feel the need yo do this? Can you name a single person on this board who has Starocci on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling? You say you can remember this so I am sure this won't be challenging for you, right?

I need to make sure Mount Rushmore keeps the actual best wrestlers ever on it.  That is my motivation.  If you leave it to the psu faithful they will put their peeps on it even if undeserving.   I spent 5 mins looking.  No more no less here are some quotes.  Some are interesting as I never thought prime caliber young cstall would wrestle old legacy dake but you get what you get:::

 

I don't get why he's behind Dake….

I think it would give Starocci an argument for greatest college wrestler of all time….

So then he's behind I believe just Cael….

I think Cael is the GOAT but Dake is right up there……

I would not argue Dake is "right up there," what I would disagree is that Starocci isn't. ….

It just occurred to me that CStar has basically had three undefeated seasons already, looking for a fourth (aside from injury defaults). Would be Cael-like…..

[happyvalet]

Why did Coach Manning post this lol?

[Wrestleknownothing]

36 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I need to make sure Mount Rushmore keeps the actual best wrestlers ever on it.  That is my motivation.  If you leave it to the psu faithful they will put their peeps on it even if undeserving.   I spent 5 mins looking.  No more no less here are some quotes.  Some are interesting as I never thought prime caliber young cstall would wrestle old legacy dake but you get what you get:::

 

I don't get why he's behind Dake….

I think it would give Starocci an argument for greatest college wrestler of all time….

So then he's behind I believe just Cael….

I think Cael is the GOAT but Dake is right up there……

I would not argue Dake is "right up there," what I would disagree is that Starocci isn't. ….

It just occurred to me that CStar has basically had three undefeated seasons already, looking for a fourth (aside from injury defaults). Would be Cael-like…..

What you know, but will not say, is that every single one of those quotes is about college wrestling. And if you are trying to say there is no way Starocci is in the conversation about the Mr. Rushmore of college wreatling, then you are a fool.

Still no one has every said Starocci is on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling.

[Caveira]

17 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

What you know, but will not say, is that every single one of those quotes is about college wrestling. And if you are trying to say there is no way Starocci is in the conversation about the Mr. Rushmore of college wreatling, then you are a fool.

Still no one has every said Starocci is on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling.

Not sure I care.  To often.  They will say … so and so won ncaa titles etc.  but his freestyle adds this or that dimension.   Or this or that # of world championships.  Just need to keep those that don’t belong on Mount Rushmore off of it.
 

If you agree he is not the goat than we are in agreement.   Penn state fans need  constant reminders that wrestling didn’t start a few years ago. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Caveira

[Caveira]

18 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

What you know, but will not say, is that every single one of those quotes is about college wrestling. And if you are trying to say there is no way Starocci is in the conversation about the Mr. Rushmore of college wreatling, then you are a fool.

Still no one has every said Starocci is on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling.

I can’t edit the last post with all the quotes so I’ll or this on their in retrospect 

…And if you are trying to say there is no way Starocci is in the conversation about the Mr. Rushmore of college wreatling, then you are a fool.

Edited 5 hours ago by Caveira

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Not sure I care.  To often.  They will say … so and so won ncaa titles etc.  but his freestyle adds this or that dimension.   Or this or that # of world championships.  Just need to keep those that don’t belong on Mount Rushmore off of it.
 

If you agree he is not the goat than we are in agreement.   Penn state fans need  consrant reminders that wrestling didn’t start a few years ago. 

Just stop making stuff up then claiming that you remember "y'all" said it.

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Just stop making stuff up then claiming that you remember "y'all" said it.

I posted quotes.    I added yours after the fact.  He isn’t top tier goat.  That is all.  

[GrandOlm]

7 hours ago, Caveira said:

Snyder won his first world title at 19.   

Cejudo at 21

terry and tom brands 24 

John smith was 22 

big Bruce baumgartner was 22

Snyder was 20

steveson was 21 

Kolat was 24   

Aaron brooks was 24 
 

Carter starocci is 24.    How are you seriously playing the he isn’t on his prime nonsense   Psu fans wanted him on the Mount Rushmore of best ever.

 

 

Bruce was born in 1960.  He won his first full strength, major tournament at a month shy of 26 (1986 worlds). He did win the Olympics at age 23, but that was a boycott year and more like the pan ams. He wasn't good enough to win with a full field in the first half of his 20s. 

I'd say Bruce's prime was at the ages of 31-35. That's when he had his best career results. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

24 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I posted quotes.    I added yours after the fact.  He isn’t top tier goat.  That is all.  

You added quotes about an entirely different topic. Not such a great memory after all.

[Caveira]

15 minutes ago, GrandOlm said:

Bruce was born in 1960.  He won his first full strength, major tournament at a month shy of 26 (1986 worlds). He did win the Olympics at age 23, but that was a boycott year and more like the pan ams. He wasn't good enough to win with a full field in the first half of his 20s. 

I'd say Bruce's prime was at the ages of 31-35. That's when he had his best career results. 

Bruce Baumgartner won his first World Championship medal, a bronze, at the 1983 World Wrestling Championships in Kiev, Russia
 

we are saying Cstar hasn’t  “peaked” in freestyle because he is young.   Mind you posted like 10 Americans who won gold before him age wise.  
 

Are you comparing Cstar not even getting to the “final” match for the qualifier vs Bruce winning an actual world medal when he was 22?  Mind you they have what like 16 bronze medals per bracket now vs actually having to be top 3 back in the good old days.