due process

[VakAttack]

Just now, Scouts Honor said:

so you agree, he didn't follow the court

He 100% did. that's the hilarious part.  When the student loan forgiveness instituted by Biden was struck down by SCOTUS in Biden v. Nebraska (https://www.scotusblog.com/2023/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-program/) Biden tried again using a different legal mechanism.  That's how the system is supposed to work.  Thank you again.

[Scouts Honor]

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

The meaning behind that phrase is that "liberals" (as opposed to leftists) always end up collaborating with the fascists. The point is not that left-wing ideology is fascist, but that liberals aren't actually left-wing. They are fascists in disguise.

The origin of the phrase isn't totally known, but the sentiment is common through modern history. A couple possible origins:

1930s German Communists accused liberals of capitulating/collaborating with the Nazi rise to power.

Black Panther Party in the 1960s and MLK's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" criticizing the "white moderate" for implicitly supporting injustice by doing nothing to challenge it.

 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

The meaning behind that phrase is that "liberals" (as opposed to leftists) always end up collaborating with the fascists. The point is not that left-wing ideology is fascist, but that liberals aren't actually left-wing. They are fascists in disguise.

The origin of the phrase isn't totally known, but the sentiment is common through modern history. A couple possible origins:

1930s German Communists accused liberals of capitulating/collaborating with the Nazi rise to power.

Black Panther Party in the 1960s and MLK's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" criticizing the "white moderate" for implicitly supporting injustice by doing nothing to challenge it.

To the original proverb, Erik Kin does a better job than the copy/paste note above.

• https://archive.is/20241215155441/https://medium.com/@erickin/scratch-a-liberal-and-a-fascist-bleeds-the-unmasking-of-american-liberalism-in-a-time-of-crisis-36f9fe2c666c#selection-245.0-767.36 

To your point, I agree!  But while you can say school choice, state rights, limited government conservatives have fascist tendencies, you can't claim the high ground from the left. Here are just a few cases of forcible suppression, propaganda, and so on recently to enforce their rules over individual freedom.

Just a small sampling of fascism from the left...

• Vaccine mandates...
• The Censorship-Industrial Complex: Biden White House Coercing Big Tech (link)
• Employees fired for refusing to serve black customer after the store had closed for the day (link)
• The New Intolerance of Student Activism - https://archive.is/Qk6XF
• California Nurse Suspended for Vaccine Skepticism Posts (link)
• Virginia school board to pay $575K to a teacher fired for refusing to use trans student’s pronouns (link)
• dehumanize Trump supporters as MAGA and deplorable
• "Fortifying the election"...

Hearing fascists treat parents as fascist domestic terrorists? Facepalm!  So SICK of hearing fascists refer to others as fascists!!!

Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.  The words fascism and fascist have long been associated with the Fascisti of Benito Mussolini and the fasces, the bundle of rods with an ax among them, which the Fascisti used as a symbol of the Italian people united and obedient to the single authority of the state.  [merriam]  Central to fascism is the use of propaganda and disinformation to manipulate public perception and undermine truth.  [Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism]

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Scouts Honor]

at least the dude put his money where his mouth is

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

 

He have any pro illegal alien rulings?

lawyers and judges having political affiliation (of any kind) is next level nonsense btw .    Unfortunately it’s reality…

 

[Scouts Honor]

i wasn't party to the non wrestling topics  back then, but i would bet there was no one griping about obama short cutting due process to deport 3mil illegals

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Offthemat]

12 hours ago, VakAttack said:

not how the republic was structured to operate

That’s an odd thing to say, as the law in use is from the very beginnings of this nation.  Shirley you’ll eventually get something right. 

[uncle bernard]

9 hours ago, Offthemat said:

That’s an odd thing to say, as the law in use is from the very beginnings of this nation.  Shirley you’ll eventually get something right. 

Confidently wrong, as usual. 

The Supreme Court has ruled on this over and over. Non-citizens are entitled to due process. Due process is the backbone of the entire legal system. That is the law of this country. If you don't like it, find a new one. 

Why do you hate America?

 

[Lipdrag]

 

[VakAttack]

10 hours ago, Offthemat said:

That’s an odd thing to say, as the law in use is from the very beginnings of this nation.  Shirley you’ll eventually get something right. 

It's so weird how often you guys insist on being obstinately wrong about everything.  Let me explain it to you like you're 4 years old.

 

 

Biden administration on student loan forgiveness:  We want to forgive student loans under Law X.

SCOTUS:  No, you can't do that under Law X.

Biden admin:  Hmmm, ok.  But we really want to do this thing.  We're going to try it under this other Law Y.

And so on and so forth until either they give up or they succeed.

 

 

^^^This is acceptable and operating under our laws and system of governance under three co-equal branches of government.

 

Trump administration on deporting people without due process:  We want to remove these people from the country to another country and pay to house them in prisons there without giving them hearings under Law A.

 

SCOTUS:  No, you can't do that under Law A.

 

Trump administration:  F - u - c - k you, we're doing it.

 

^^^This is unacceptable and operating as if Trump and his administration have no co-equal branches of anything.

[Scouts Honor]

15 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

i wasn't party to the non wrestling topics  back then, but i would bet there was no one griping about obama short cutting due process to deport 3mil illegals

it's funny

no one.

in the media... did anything like they are now.

I just can't figure out why? 

certainly no flights abroad by congressmen/women

[Offthemat]

27 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

This is acceptable and operating under our laws and system of governance under three co-equal branches of government.

Saying this is ridiculous.  Doing it is far from upholding the constitution.  Trump, not be a lawyer, is following the law.  There is no co-equal commander-in-chief.  Your hero had two judges say he was ms13, and another deny his fraudulent asylum application.  He was under a final order of removal, but was granted an errant withholding of removal order.  Withholding as in - until conditions change.  Well, conditions changed.  How much due process do you want these illegals to have?  

 

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Non-citizens are entitled to due process.

To a point, certainly not to the extent a citizen might expect.  We’re going to call it a class action (in reverse) due process. 

[VakAttack]

Just now, Offthemat said:

Saying this is ridiculous.  Doing it is far from upholding the constitution.  Trump, not be a lawyer, is following the law.  There is no co-equal commander-in-chief.  Your hero had two judges say he was ms13, and another deny his fraudulent asylum application.  He was under a final order of removal, but was granted an errant withholding of removal order.  Withholding as in - until conditions change.  Well, conditions changed.  How much due process do you want these illegals to have?  

 

To a point, certainly not to the extent a citizen might expect.  We’re going to call it a class action (in reverse) due process. 

You're just spouting off now about things you clearly don't understand and just saying things should be the way you want them to be, not how they are.

[Offthemat]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You're just spouting off now about things you clearly don't understand and just saying things should be the way you want them to be, not how they are.

Clearly, you’re projecting.  I listed a few of the points indicating that the man has had due process, you, a lawyer, have claimed he had none. 

[VakAttack]

Just now, Offthemat said:

Clearly, you’re projecting.  I listed a few of the points indicating that the man has had due process, you, a lawyer, have claimed he had none. 

He did not have due process.  You don't know what the orders mean.  That's ok that whatever conservative opinion maker you are listening to is claiming things, but you're wrong.  For a Withholding of Removal to to be revoked, it requires a hearing.  A judge has to do it, not just a new president coming into office.

[Offthemat]

5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

A judge has to do it

Not a problem - it can be done in absentia. 

[Offthemat]

9 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You don't know what the orders mean. 

I know that the withholding is of the removal and not the order.  Withholding based on conditions - the conditions have changed - the order is in effect. 

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I know that the withholding is of the removal and not the order.  Withholding based on conditions - the conditions have changed - the order is in effect. 

The conditions don't change just because you say so.  You can tell by the way the effing Supreme Court ruled 9-0 against what happened.

[red viking]

Funny how the wingers, almost none of which have law degrees, think they they know more than SCOTUS. 

Just like they think they know more than climatologists. Because they saw some YouTube videos (funded by right-wing interest groups) that claimed that man-made climate change isn't real. 

Shows you their mentality. 

[uncle bernard]

40 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Saying this is ridiculous.  Doing it is far from upholding the constitution.  Trump, not be a lawyer, is following the law.  There is no co-equal commander-in-chief.  Your hero had two judges say he was ms13, and another deny his fraudulent asylum application.  He was under a final order of removal, but was granted an errant withholding of removal order.  Withholding as in - until conditions change.  Well, conditions changed.  How much due process do you want these illegals to have?  

 

To a point, certainly not to the extent a citizen might expect.  We’re going to call it a class action (in reverse) due process. 

This is absolutely not true. You can't just make stuff up lol.

And the "conditions" didn't change. There was a court order not to remove him that was violated. By definition, the conditions did not change. Even the Trump administration isn't arguing what you're arguing! They admitted it was illegal and the Supreme Court ruled against them 9-0.

You need to go back to 7th grade civics class. This is basic, BASIC stuff about our legal system. Hell, you wouldn't even pass the citizenship test immigrants have to take!

 

[uncle bernard]

In a unanimous decision authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the Court affirmed the lawlessness of Mr. Abrego Garcia’s removal to a Salvadoran prison, observing that even “[t]he United States acknowledges that Abrego Garcia was subject to a withholding order forbidding his removal to El Salvador, and that the removal to El Salvador was therefore illegal.”

Reports are circulating that Chief Justice Roberts attempted to consult leading legal mind, @Offthemat, on this issue, but he was too busy playing with his own feces to weigh in.