Trump's Concentration Camp

[fishbane]

4 minutes ago, Caveira said:

We jailed him?   Or El Salvador jailed him?    

My understanding is that we, the United States, initially took him into custody on March 12. He was detained in US facilities for some period of time.  It is unclear when he was transported to El Savador, but it's likely he was on one of the March 15 flights that the US sent to El Salvador.  The administration has refused to release the names of the detainees on those flights even to Judge Boasberg.

[jross]

14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

A US court did not determine he was in MS-13, it just said the allegations “appear to be trustworthy.”  Also in reply to your comments above, there were 4 men questioned at the Home Depot, and one of them was determined to not be in MS-13 and was released.  So the fact that he was “with others confirmed to be MS-13” doesn’t mean much.

Link to decision: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.11.1_2.pdf

Trump's team was clear on their reasoning.

I'm still holding out for stronger MS-13 gang evidence.  It feels like Trump's admin / supporters are greasy car salesmen...  If the Tenn. article is confirmed that Abrego or a passenger was on the terrorist watch list, and the FBI was called for human smuggling concerns, then I will trust what intelligence originally reported in 2019.  And if that's the case... this feels like they 'lucked' into their narrative...

Edited Thursday at 09:26 PM by jross

[fishbane]

12 minutes ago, jross said:

Trump's team was clear on their reasoning.

I'm still holding out for stronger MS-13 gang evidence.  It feels like Trump's admin / supporters are greasy car salesmen...  If the Tenn. article is confirmed that Abrego or a passenger was on the terrorist watch list, and the FBI was called for human smuggling concerns, then I will trust what intelligence originally reported in 2019.  And if that's the case... this feels like they 'lucked' into their narrative...

The problem with the terror watch list is that it's Kafkaesque.  How does one get on it?  What evidence if any is required to get on it?  How do you get off it or challenge your inclusion?

I recall 10 or so years ago after the Orlando night club shooting Democrats were proposing "common sense" gun regulations which included preventing those on the terrorist watch list from purchasing firearms.  I think the shooter's was on a terrorist watch list at some point. Oppose such a thing and you get accused of being in favor of allowing terrorists to buy guns.  It's a preposterous assertion.  If these people were actually terrorists then the government could charge them with a felony, get a conviction, and then they wouldn't be allowed to own guns under current laws.  Those on the terrorist watch list are individuals where there is some level suspicion, but the government lacks evidence to pursue charges.  It's a punishment without due process.

Lucked into the right result shouldn't be acceptable.  They've admitted the mistake under oath.  They should bring him back and do it the right way if they have the evidence.

[Caveira]

42 minutes ago, fishbane said:

My understanding is that we, the United States, initially took him into custody on March 12. He was detained in US facilities for some period of time.  It is unclear when he was transported to El Savador, but it's likely he was on one of the March 15 flights that the US sent to El Salvador.  The administration has refused to release the names of the detainees on those flights even to Judge Boasberg.

And why should they?

[1032004]

New decision from conservative appellate judge about sums it up:

“It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it is not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400.8.0.pdf

[Caveira]

29 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

New decision from conservative appellate judge about sums it up:

“It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it is not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400.8.0.pdf

What does the decision change.  And is it binding?

[Offthemat]

 

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, fishbane said:

The problem with the terror watch list is that it's Kafkaesque.  How does one get on it?  What evidence if any is required to get on it?  How do you get off it or challenge your inclusion?

I recall 10 or so years ago after the Orlando night club shooting Democrats were proposing "common sense" gun regulations which included preventing those on the terrorist watch list from purchasing firearms.  I think the shooter's was on a terrorist watch list at some point. Oppose such a thing and you get accused of being in favor of allowing terrorists to buy guns.  It's a preposterous assertion.  If these people were actually terrorists then the government could charge them with a felony, get a conviction, and then they wouldn't be allowed to own guns under current laws.  Those on the terrorist watch list are individuals where there is some level suspicion, but the government lacks evidence to pursue charges.  It's a punishment without due process.

Lucked into the right result shouldn't be acceptable.  They've admitted the mistake under oath.  They should bring him back and do it the right way if they have the evidence.

just b/c you don't know... makes it shady

here the deal. laws. lists. nothing. stops someone from doing what they want to do 

[WrestlingRasta]

At what point do yall realize that:

1) you’re not going to change each others minds, even if you go on wasting your time continuing this on to 24 or so pages 

2) you don’t know not half, at best, about this case that you think or pretend you know

3) it’s time to move on to the next endless topic, where the only thing that matters is what ‘your guy’ says or thinks so that you can just follow right along. 

[Scouts Honor]

thats why i keep adding information

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

At what point do yall realize that:

1) you’re not going to change each others minds, even if you go on wasting your time continuing this on to 24 or so pages 

2) you don’t know not half, at best, about this case that you think or pretend you know

3) it’s time to move on to the next endless topic, where the only thing that matters is what ‘your guy’ says or thinks so that you can just follow right along. 

You’re pretty cool Rasta.  

[ionel]

55 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

 

3) it’s time to move on to the next endless topic, where the only thing that matters is what ‘your guy’ says or thinks so that you can just follow right along. 

Oh boy what shall that be?  

[fishbane]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

just b/c you don't know... makes it shady

here the deal. laws. lists. nothing. stops someone from doing what they want to do 

Not just me but the general public and most of the government too.  If you know then please elucidate it for everyone.  The terrorist watchlist has almost 2M people on it. I am many don't know how they got on or how to get off.

[Scouts Honor]

here is how you get on the terror watch list

 

[Scouts Honor]

so concentrationy campish

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[scourge165]

11 hours ago, fishbane said:

The problem with the terror watch list is that it's Kafkaesque.  How does one get on it?  What evidence if any is required to get on it?  How do you get off it or challenge your inclusion?

I recall 10 or so years ago after the Orlando night club shooting Democrats were proposing "common sense" gun regulations which included preventing those on the terrorist watch list from purchasing firearms.  I think the shooter's was on a terrorist watch list at some point. Oppose such a thing and you get accused of being in favor of allowing terrorists to buy guns.  It's a preposterous assertion.  If these people were actually terrorists then the government could charge them with a felony, get a conviction, and then they wouldn't be allowed to own guns under current laws.  Those on the terrorist watch list are individuals where there is some level suspicion, but the government lacks evidence to pursue charges.  It's a punishment without due process.

Lucked into the right result shouldn't be acceptable.  They've admitted the mistake under oath.  They should bring him back and do it the right way if they have the evidence.

I know how one person got on it. I had an Aunt and Uncle that moved to South America for a while(~10 years). Some European/American retirement community right on the Ocean.  They just packed everything up put it in a shipping container. 

Moving back home, they did the same. Like...everything you had space for. His wife packed spices. Apparently sugar and Flower...which may have been stupid, but they went through the container, kept it a month, nothing else in it. 

 

That was suspicious behavior. Now they have a Son(my Aunt did) who was stationed where they moved to. They have a son in FBI intelligence. Very openly MAGA(only relevant because they moved back in 2018/2019 over that period of time) and despite having a stick up his rear and complaining about a Walter White Joke his Dad made on Facebook... while he had Cancer, he posts about Muslims taking over our Country...and then the picture he used was some Republican who is of Lebanese ethnicity(but...almost as white as Pence) from Illinois. Darin LaHood is the guy he posted(he then took it down and put up someone else and then quoted Bin Laden about taking down the US from within). 

They found out he was on a watch list because of that son...who will also tell you the FBI is extremely conservative and he hasn't met anyone who isn't a Trump supporter. that's apropos of nothing beyond the anecdote and how it contrasts with the whole 'the FBI is liberal and should be disbanded,' talking point that's been used. 

 

So...yeah, now my Uncle just jokes around. Whenever he talks to his Son, he makes comments about how he found some really good yellow cake...at the store and how much he loves it. Gets his son all worked up(they're not of the same mind politically). 

His wife died and he doesn't care as he lives by himself in VERY rural area. It's not how I'd joke around, but he is a Veteran of Vietnam, then a Fireman, then became a Cop and then a Sheriff....and he's on the list, that...again, he only found out about due to his Son.

 

[jross]

Abrego is not making America better.  Minimally he's run with gang members and watchlist people, plus some spousal abuse.  Who chances into gang claims and smuggling suspicions?  Why did he enter illegally and wait until 2019 to claim asylum?  The government has not proven Abrego is MS-13 and they weaseled their compliance with the Supreme Court's order.  A positive from the publicity of this case is potentially more self-deportations...  I do hate Trump's general stance to never admit mistakes...  Realistically, citizens will not face this mess under Trump's admin but due process is for everyone (stop stretching...). 

[jross]

How many of y'all ridiculed government skeptics over the past four years... and yet here you yourself are now a skeptic?  

[Scouts Honor]

Trump: bet me

Miller: no way.

Trump: i bet i can

Miller: ok easy money

vance: what are you guys doing

Miller: trumpy just bet me he could get the dems and the msm to put their full support on an MS 13 gangbanging wife beater 

[ionel]

https://www.newsweek.com/elena-kagan-rejects-appeal-family-deportation-supreme-court-2061452

Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan denied an emergency appeal to temporarily block the deportation of the family of four Mexican nationals, who, according to their filing, "are targets of cartel violence due to their family ties and refusal to comply with extortion demands."

[WrestlingRasta]

17 hours ago, Caveira said:

You’re pretty cool Rasta.  

Only by the good grace of God could I hope to one day be as cool as you.   I know I have a long way to go. 

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

https://www.newsweek.com/elena-kagan-rejects-appeal-family-deportation-supreme-court-2061452

Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan denied an emergency appeal to temporarily block the deportation of the family of four Mexican nationals, who, according to their filing, "are targets of cartel violence due to their family ties and refusal to comply with extortion demands."

Yes.  I posted that yesterday, 7th post on this page.  
 

Danger of gang violence is not grounds for asylum. 

[ionel]

49 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Yes.  I posted that yesterday, 7th post on this page.  
 

Great minds ... it's just that some minds are apparently slower than others.