Did Penn St. miscalculate on transfers?

[BuckyBadger]

The get Welsh but lose Ryder. These two seem like a wash to me. Even if Welsh ends up with slightly better results, points wise at NCAAs, there is very little difference. The flip scenario is Ryder is better than Welsh. Then the staff looks pretty short sighted here.

Maybe even more important in this what it does to team cohesiveness. Just a few days ago before all this transfer stuff Starocci tweeted something in support of Ryder. That obviously didn’t work out.

i get bringing someone in for a weight that underperforms PSUs standards, but recruiting over Ryder seems to have much more potential negatives than positives here.

 

[BuckyBadger]

I suppose the other possibility is Ryder was already on the way out and that’s why they brought in Welsh.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Also relevant is that Ryder has 4 years and Welsh only 3.

[jchapman]

Penn State is the number one place.  You have to understand that there will be competition for starting spots, because each spot realistically represents a NC wrestler.  We are at the point where you don't go to Penn State and expect to start unless you are capable of winning a NC each year.

Edited Thursday at 06:00 PM by jchapman

[scourge165]

35 minutes ago, BuckyBadger said:

I suppose the other possibility is Ryder was already on the way out and that’s why they brought in Welsh.

Pretty unlikely. 

I don't believe any team in the country is turning down Welsh. I don't think Iowa is doing it, I don't think Missouri is doing it. I think is ONE should have, it should have been PSU, but then you factor in he's from Penn, just outside Pitt and he was apparently close to Duke, their prized recruit(though...that has really lost all meaning when they're ALL prized recruits). 

[BuckyBadger]

14 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Pretty unlikely. 

I don't believe any team in the country is turning down Welsh. I don't think Iowa is doing it, I don't think Missouri is doing it. I think is ONE should have, it should have been PSU, but then you factor in he's from Penn, just outside Pitt and he was apparently close to Duke, their prized recruit(though...that has really lost all meaning when they're ALL prized recruits). 

I agree to an extent but at this level it’s almost like splitting hairs. You might eke out an inch better performance, but if it doesn’t work out you potentially lose on both recruits (one doesn’t perform as expected and the other leaves). There is a certain risk they are taking on for an unclear benefit.

Of course, they’re PSU so they’re not going to have a problem stocking up on talent. So it’s not like they’re at risk of dropping to 5th place or something.

[1032004]

19 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Pretty unlikely. 

I don't believe any team in the country is turning down Welsh. I don't think Iowa is doing it, I don't think Missouri is doing it. I think is ONE should have, it should have been PSU, but then you factor in he's from Penn, just outside Pitt and he was apparently close to Duke, their prized recruit(though...that has really lost all meaning when they're ALL prized recruits). 

I have no clue but I wouldn’t rule it out.  Keep in mind PSU also has guys like Henckel and Cunningham coming in around that weight.  Maybe he didn’t want to be like Patrick Kennedy and have to compete against the coaches son.

[peanut]

If a coach is going to run an elite program in the current environment, he is going to welcome anyone who can challenge for the starting job.

On the other side of the coin, athletes are free to transfer to another team if the elite program no longer suits them.

It’s not how a lot of people are comfortable operating, but it’s how an elite program must operate if it is going to be elite. 

Edited Thursday at 07:37 PM by peanut

[Fletcher]

Gave Ryder extra motivation to win a title and any H2H match-ups. That may not have been included in their calculus.

[Masonbuckeye]

I didn't think Ryder would leave. It's pretty rare people leave State College. Maybe Cael let his guard down when he let Rocco in with open arms. I think he'll re-evalute this a little more. It took Beard a year to leave. It took Facundo 3 years to leave.

[scourge165]

9 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Gave Ryder extra motivation to win a title and any H2H match-ups. That may not have been included in their calculus.

You really think these guys need extra motivation at this level?

 

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

have no clue but I wouldn’t rule it out.  Keep in mind PSU also has guys like Henckel and Cunningham coming in around that weight.  Maybe he didn’t want to be like Patrick Kennedy and have to compete against the coaches son.

 

Who did Brands start over that he shouln't have? Arnold last year? I'm not disputing, I don't know.

And I would be surprised if that happened with either Cunningham. I wouldn't be shocked if the two Cunningham's won the job if they were 51/49. Like...say Haines and O'Toole, they start Haines. 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, scourge165 said:

You really think these guys need extra motivation at this level?

 

 

Who did Brands start over that he shouln't have? Arnold last year? I'm not disputing, I don't know.

And I would be surprised if that happened with either Cunningham. I wouldn't be shocked if the two Cunningham's won the job if they were 51/49. Like...say Haines and O'Toole, they start Haines. 

No not saying he did, just saying someone might not want to compete against the coach’s son

[Fletcher]

50 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

You really think these guys need extra motivation at this level?

Elite athletes will use whatever they can for extra motivation - so yes.

Watch any interview about Michael Jordan.

[OMW]

1 hour ago, Fletcher said:

Gave Ryder extra motivation to win a title and any H2H match-ups. That may not have been included in their calculus.

Shouldn't Ryder have had the motivation to beat him out H2H in the room for the spot and win a title?

Him leaving presumably shows he doesn't have the confidence that he can earn the spot.

That or he and his family decided he can get a full ride and money elsewhere instead of a partial at PSU.

Possibly a combination of both...

[okokzach]

16 minutes ago, OMW said:

Shouldn't Ryder have had the motivation to beat him out H2H in the room for the spot and win a title?

Him leaving presumably shows he doesn't have the confidence that he can earn the spot.

That or he and his family decided he can get a full ride and money elsewhere instead of a partial at PSU.

Possibly a combination of both...

those are the only two possibilities you can think of?

[Caveira]

5 hours ago, BuckyBadger said:

Just a few days ago before all this transfer stuff Starocci tweeted something in support of Ryder.

Didn’t he delete this tweet right after the announcement too ?   Shows he isn’t / wasn’t in the loop.  

[ionel]

1 hour ago, OMW said:

Shouldn't Ryder have had the motivation to beat him out H2H in the room for the spot and win a title?

Him leaving presumably shows he doesn't have the confidence that he can earn the spot.

That or he and his family decided he can get a full ride and money elsewhere instead of a partial at PSU.

Possibly a combination of both...

 ... or maybe he has just had all the fun he can handle.  

[flyingcement]

My sense is that its a lot less calculated than we think from the outside.  I think its more subject to spontaneity, chance, and happenstance than can be imagined.  Relationships and human emotions are unpredictable by nature so I think it's hard to say that teams are making some sort of calculation.  I think the primary calculation is to get directionally better which means always being open to wrestlers who might want to try out for the team

[ionel]

14 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

My sense is that its a lot less calculated than we think from the outside.  I think its more subject to spontaneity, chance, and happenstance than can be imagined.  Relationships and human emotions are unpredictable by nature so I think it's hard to say that teams are making some sort of calculation.  I think the primary calculation is to get directionally better which means always being open to wrestlers who might want to try out for the team

Fly that's really close to a mathematical word salad.  You might be able to run for VP or at least serve as an intern for Wkn.   

[1032004]

6 hours ago, BuckyBadger said:

I suppose the other possibility is Ryder was already on the way out and that’s why they brought in Welsh.

No clue if this account has any inside info, they do have 6k followers which is on the higher side as far as wrestling twitter goes

 

 

 

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Fletcher said:

Elite athletes will use whatever they can for extra motivation - so yes.

Watch any interview about Michael Jordan.

Yeah. I watched the interviews about Jordan. It's kinda nonsense. He created whatever motivation he needed at any given time...usually contrived. They talked about Clyde Drexler being great. "And I took that personally." That was the joke. He took everything personally. Which is also kinda the point. He claims he was "cut from the Basketball team." Not really. He was cut from varsity as a Freshmen on a powerhouse team. 

At least some.

Others, like Cael(or Montana) they just embrace the big moment. 

And some put too much pressure on themselves and they can't perform in the big moment. 

 

But I do really doubt a guy was headed toward being a 2X AA and he became a 3X National Champ because PSU brought in a NCAA Finalist as a Freshmen. 

[okokzach]

22 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

No clue if this account has any inside info, they do have 6k followers which is on the higher side as far as wrestling twitter goes

You can assume anyone who makes statement like this is full of it.  Pretends to be on the inside, but gives zero details that could later be proven wrong.  Mineo may try to cover up his misses, but at least he puts his name out there and says things that can be verified/disproven rather than this "wait till you guys find out what I already know but won't say" bs

[CHROMEBIRD]

53 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

No clue if this account has any inside info, they do have 6k followers which is on the higher side as far as wrestling twitter goes

 

I'm going to be so pissed if Ryder was poached away with a bag and PSU ended up saving money because Welsh doesn't care about getting paid

Edited yesterday at 01:08 AM by CHROMEBIRD

[CTMopar]

Maybe you should ask him...

[cl415]

Psu misplayed this for sure. Everyone acting like Rocco just walked on there when in reality they paid him way more than Ryder and that didn’t go over well. It’s one thing to bring someone on a level playing field ala dean/beard but this was different circumstances and it pissed people off.