Trump at NCAA’s

[Tripnsweep]

9 minutes ago, mspart said:

He is intelligent enough to win, the lose, and learn from that loss and win again.   That is the definition of successful.

mspart

I think "being born rich" goes a lot further than you think. The one thing Trump has learned or been taught is that if enough people are invested in your success, it's hard to fail completely. Yet he almost did it anyway. I compare him to just a scaled up Sonny Bono, a guy who entered politics solely because he had a grudge against the local government. 

[red viking]

His success seems to be grounded in his charisma and ability to connect with an audience. I'm not aware of any other skills, but that will take you a very long way in life. 

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, red viking said:

His success seems to be grounded in his charisma and ability to connect with an audience. I'm not aware of any other skills, but that will take you a very long way in life. 

This has been said 1090 times.  But for your mental health jeez man you can only hate someone so much before it truly impacts your life.  Your sanity.  Probably your family.  The relationships in your life.  Please seek professional health.  It’s only 4 years boss.  It will end one day.

Edited yesterday at 12:18 AM by Caveira

[red viking]

12 minutes ago, Caveira said:

This has been said 1090 times.  But for your mental health jeez man you can only hate someone so much before it truly impacts your life.  Your sanity.  Probably your family.  The relationships in your life.  Please seek professional health.  It’s only 4 years boss.  It will end one day.

Lol. Well, my fiance has even less respect for him than I do and both of our extended families and children are all either liberal or moderate so no negative impact on my relationships. 

Only 22 months, actually. The wingers will lose the House then and he'll have a lot of problems. Honestly, I don't know if he'll survive 4 years between his legal violations and frail health. 

[Caveira]

15 minutes ago, Caveira said:

This has been said 1090 times.  But for your mental health jeez man you can only hate someone so much before it truly impacts your life.  Your sanity.  Probably your family.  The relationships in your life.  Please seek professional health.  It’s only 4 years boss.  It will end one day.

Professional help.  Seek help please.  For your health.  

[red viking]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Professional help.  Seek help please.  For your health.  

I'm good man. I love fighting for truth and justice. Fighting evil feels good. 

[fishbane]

25 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Is this real?  I’d seen the team photo of him with him in it, but never saw this 

I think so.  I got it here https://www.nationalprepwrestling.org/copy-of-the-history

[jross]

The National Prep Wrestling Championships includes top wrestlers from preparatory schools across the United States.

The 1962 168lb winner, Bill Harlow, continued to wrestle at OSU, Worlds, etc.  Harlow began his wrestling career as an eighth grader, competing for the high school team at St. Andrews School in Sewanee, Tenn. Over five years, he lost only one match and, as a senior in 1962, won the national prep championship, the state championship and his fifth Mid-South championship, earning Outstanding Wrestler honors at all three tournaments.

• https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/1356
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Harlow_(wrestler)

The Trump beater, Francis Blizzard, doesn't have much on him and may not have wrestled in college.  Frank was a 1963 graduate of the Milton Hershey School and served in the United States Air Force during the Vietnam War.  The comments in his obit mention wrestling.

• https://www.hooverfuneralhome.com/obituaries/Francis-Joseph-Blizzard-Jr?obId=25660627

Trump must have performed well at his state and regional tournament to have qualified for the National Prep tournament.

[red viking]

54 minutes ago, jross said:

The National Prep Wrestling Championships includes top wrestlers from preparatory schools across the United States.

The 1962 168lb winner, Bill Harlow, continued to wrestle at OSU, Worlds, etc.  Harlow began his wrestling career as an eighth grader, competing for the high school team at St. Andrews School in Sewanee, Tenn. Over five years, he lost only one match and, as a senior in 1962, won the national prep championship, the state championship and his fifth Mid-South championship, earning Outstanding Wrestler honors at all three tournaments.

• https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/1356
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Harlow_(wrestler)

The Trump beater, Francis Blizzard, doesn't have much on him and may not have wrestled in college.  Frank was a 1963 graduate of the Milton Hershey School and served in the United States Air Force during the Vietnam War.  The comments in his obit mention wrestling.

• https://www.hooverfuneralhome.com/obituaries/Francis-Joseph-Blizzard-Jr?obId=25660627

Trump must have performed well at his state and regional tournament to have qualified for the National Prep tournament.

Lots of assumptions here. I think it's great that he actually wrestled, but there's zero evidence that he was a "good" wrestler and I wouldn''t assume he had to do much in 1962 to qualify for that tournament. Let's not take this to an extreme with your red tinted goggles on. 

[Bigbrog]

20 minutes ago, red viking said:

Lots of assumptions here. I think it's great that he actually wrestled, but there's zero evidence that he was a "good" wrestler and I wouldn''t assume he had to do much in 1962 to qualify for that tournament. Let's not take this to an extreme with your red tinted goggles on. 

LOL...are you talking about other people's posts or yours??  All you do is post assumptions and lies.

[jross]

He had to do well enough at states and regionals to qualify for preps.  What are the odds he was the only wrestler in the qualifiers and byed his way to the prep?  His classmates spoke about fights and having to use a broomstick because of his size.

Quote

 

Thanks to his athletic prowess, Dobias said, Trump was a “big shot” on campus. “And you get that by working hard, and he did work hard,” Dobias said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decades-later-disagreement-over-young-trumps-military-academy-post/2016/01/09/907a67b2-b3e0-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html

 

and

Quote

 

"Then I lost it. I totally lost it. So I think I hit him with a broomstick," remembered Levine. "And he came back at me — with his hands. He was bigger than me. And it took three people to get him off me."

https://www.npr.org/2015/11/10/455331251/this-is-where-donald-trump-played-by-the-rules-and-learned-to-beat-the-game

 

 

There are multiple articles with quotes from leaders and classmates about how competitive and hardworking he was.

[jross]

Trump wouldn't have been great at wrestling by today's standards...

But large, hard-working, and above his peers... yea there is evidence of that.

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Trump must have performed well at his state and regional tournament to have qualified for the National Prep tournament.

I am not sure about this.  Certainly today wrestlers must qualify for National Preps based on placement in their respective state/conference tournament.  However, back in the real old days I suspect National Preps was an open tournament. The NCAA wrestling championships used to be an open tournament too.  I think it wasn't until the late 1970s or early 1980's that placement at a conference tournament was required.  If I recall correctly this played a role in the epic story of Barry Davis going missing before the Big Ten tournament one year.  I think he had some understanding that he didn't have to wrestle at Big Tens to wrestle at NCAAs and broke during his weight cut and left.  Gable tracked him down and got him to the tournament.

Any way I think this means that Trump was good enough to start on his high school team one year and either good enough to qualify or good enough for his coach to think it was worth bring him if it was an open.  The later might be a low bar as I am sure this was a bus trip his team was taking anyway.  This was the only bracket I could find with Trump in it, so he either didn't qualify or didn't make the team/his coach left him home the other years.

[red viking]

6 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I am not sure about this.  Certainly today wrestlers must qualify for National Preps based on placement in their respective state/conference tournament.  However, back in the real old days I suspect National Preps was an open tournament. The NCAA wrestling championships used to be an open tournament too.  I think it wasn't until the late 1970s or early 1980's that placement at a conference tournament was required.  If I recall correctly this played a role in the epic story of Barry Davis going missing before the Big Ten tournament one year.  I think he had some understanding that he didn't have to wrestle at Big Tens to wrestle at NCAAs and broke during his weight cut and left.  Gable tracked him down and got him to the tournament.

Any way I think this means that Trump was good enough to start on his high school team one year and either good enough to qualify or good enough for his coach to think it was worth bring him if it was an open.  The later might be a low bar as I am sure this was a bus trip his team was taking anyway.  This was the only bracket I could find with Trump in it, so he either didn't qualify or didn't make the team/his coach left him home the other years.

Good post.  Yah; that's what i was thinking. I'm sure it was very different in 1962. 

He's a bully. Most people that act like that are soft when the rubber meets the road. I have zero doubt that he was an average wrestler, at BEST. 

[Scouts Honor]

14 hours ago, red viking said:

His success seems to be grounded in his charisma and ability to connect with an audience. I'm not aware of any other skills, but that will take you a very long way in life. 

we are talking about trump..

are you talking about obama?

[fishbane]

Just now, red viking said:

Good post.  Yah; that's what i was thinking. I'm sure it was very different in 1962. 

He's a bully. Most people that act like that are soft when the rubber meets the road. I have zero doubt that he was an average wrestler, at BEST. 

To be clear I do not know the qualification procedure if any for the 1962 National Prep tournament.  NYMA did not have a wrestler entered at all/most weights.  So I think either the wrestlers had to qualify or the coach only took wrestlers he thought had a chance to do something at the tournament.  Maybe someone else on here knows the qualification process for Preps in the 1960s?

[jross]

Yea I made the leap based on today's National Prep literature coupled with Harlow having wrestled at his state and regional in 1962.  They very well could have been a prep open tournament.  There also would have been fewer prep schools than there would be today.  I can't find much about 1962 for anyone anywhere.

[fishbane]

19 minutes ago, jross said:

Yea I made the leap based on today's National Prep literature coupled with Harlow having wrestled at his state and regional in 1962.  They very well could have been a prep open tournament.  There also would have been fewer prep schools than there would be today.  I can't find much about 1962 for anyone anywhere.

There is more national prep history here https://nepswa.com/national-preps/.  They had some document on the history in the real real old days and I guess public schools used to attend way back in the 1930s.  The school Mr. Blizzard attended, Milton Hershey, moved to the PIAA in 1972.  In 1972 the rules change and private schools were allowed into the PIAA.  Many compete there now like Bishop McCort, Faith Christian, BECA, etc. So I think the number of schools has gone up and down and changed quite a bit over time.

I suspect it was an open in 1962 mainly because of the relative number entries at the extreme weights relative to the middle weights.  I wouldn't expect that at a tournament where the champs/top3/whatever from state/conference tournaments qualified. It would be more or less equal at the championship and you'd only see this in the first qualification round of tournaments.  NYMA only had 4 or 5 entries in the tournament. I assume there were more wrestlers than that on the team so my guess is that it was an open tournament and they only sent the better.  Still the wrestlers they sent failed to win any matches at the tournament.

Maybe Jason Bryant or Gimp knows something about the qualification for National Preps back then.  I had some across that bracket after Bryant said he had seen a national perp bracket with Trump's name in it when his wrestling background came up over in one of the wrestling forums.  I think Gimp had been the tournament director or helped to run preps for a number of years, but not as far back as 1962.  Still he may know. 

[jross]

Many newspapers that would cover NYMA are not digitized...  I was able to find the National Prep tournament in a PA newspaper, stating Harlow beat the previous year's champ 3-2.  Harlow was taken down, had two escapes, and rode his opponent the entire third period to earn the riding time point.

There are digitized newspapers from New York showing that Donald Trump competed in the New York State Golf tournaments at least in 1961 and 1963.  Here are two article snippets from that.

[fishbane]

Today NYMA is in the New England Qualifier.  Their website doesn't go back to 1962 with the conference results. https://nepswa.com/results/#neiswa

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

34 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Today NYMA is in the New England Qualifier.  Their website doesn't go back to 1962 with the conference results. https://nepswa.com/results/#neiswa

NYMA didn't enter NEISWA until 1999-2000-ish.

[1032004]

3 hours ago, fishbane said:

To be clear I do not know the qualification procedure if any for the 1962 National Prep tournament.  NYMA did not have a wrestler entered at all/most weights.  So I think either the wrestlers had to qualify or the coach only took wrestlers he thought had a chance to do something at the tournament.  Maybe someone else on here knows the qualification process for Preps in the 1960s?

How hard is it to qualify currently?

[gimpeltf]

Qualification didn't start until ~2008.

I started getting involved around 1973/4. I posted that weight class the other day here. 

At some point after I got involved (maybe late 80s/90s) we started asking teams to only bring wrestlers with .500+ records but didn't police it. Prior to 1980 it was held in Grace Hall (and before around 1942 in Taylor Gym) where we could only hold 4 mats and even those probably curled up into the stands. As we got into the 90s, it was one of the biggest events in the country 7/8/900 wrestlers at Stabler with 8 mats (we'd laugh at those numbers now as I'm here about to help run the NHSCA with 5800). Consolations were follow the semi-finalists. We went to qualifications to be able to do full double elimination. If you lost to someone from some school other than Blair you were pretty much done.

[fishbane]

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

How hard is it to qualify currently?

It depends on the conference/state.  From PA the top 5 from the independent school state tournament qualify.  There are about 20 teams that participate.  In New England, where NYMA is now, I think it's the top 6 from about 40 teams.  In smaller and less competitive regions it might be only the champion that qualifies.  I think that's what it is in DC.

[mspart]

19 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

I think "being born rich" goes a lot further than you think. The one thing Trump has learned or been taught is that if enough people are invested in your success, it's hard to fail completely. Yet he almost did it anyway. I compare him to just a scaled up Sonny Bono, a guy who entered politics solely because he had a grudge against the local government. 

Jealous.   Name any other rich guy that has done what Trump has done on the national stage in politic s that was not in politics his whole life.   It aint just luck that gets you there. 

mspart