Hodge for Hendrickson

[billyhoyle]

50 minutes ago, boconnell said:

This is a huge stretch and not sure where it comes from.  According to the Hodge website;

 

Record is a wash.  Pins is advantage Hendrickson.  Dominance is advantage Hendrickson.  Past credentials is advantage Starocci and MM.  Quality of competition is advantage Starocci and Hendrickson.  Sportsmanship is no advantage anywhere.

You can reasonably say Starocci is more deserving according to the conversation.  You could also reasonably say Hendrickson.  I have no idea how you just declare that Messenbrink is more deserving than Starocci when the criteria are available and they do not add up that way.  

Messenbrink only had 3 matches total that weren't bonus point wins.  2 of those three were against #2 guy, who he had teched earlier in the year.  

Hendrickson had a great season too with many pins, but we have always seen heavyweights be more likely to win by pin, especially against weaker competitors.  

Like I said, I think it should be Starocci because of the 5 NCAA titles. I simply said MM had a more dominant season than Hendrickson, who also had an extremely impressive season. 

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Human psychology is at play in the Hodge, big time.  #1 Wyatt’s mega explosion at NCAAs will have a lasting mental effect.  #2 I imagine there is some Penn State fatigue.  #3 I think most, when think hard about it, think that 5 titles is bull poop.  Any of the priors with 4 would be heavy favorites to get 5.   Not a big deal.

I think these heavily lean Wyatt.

In fairness to all other hodge trophy winners whether Carter has 5 is immaterial. No other4 timer or hodge winners had an opportunity for 5 NCAA Titles. 

[Idaho]

Voters don’t simply put a name next to each of the 7 criteria and whoever has wins the most criteria get their vote  They give placements like the Heisman. 

“The winner of the Hodge Trophy is determined based on a voting process that includes previous Hodge members, national media members, retired college coaches from each region of the United States, and a representative of the national wrestling organizations in the country. Fans also have a chance to vote for the Hodge winner, and the athlete with the most fan votes will receive two first-place votes in the count. Voting is typically conducted after the conclusion of the NCAA tournament, and the winner is announced in April.”

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

Messenbrink only had 3 matches total that weren't bonus point wins.  2 of those three were against #2 guy, who he had teched earlier in the year.  

Hendrickson had a great season too with many pins, but we have always seen heavyweights be more likely to win by pin, especially against weaker competitors.  

Like I said, I think it should be Starocci because of the 5 NCAA titles. I simply said MM had a more dominant season than Hendrickson, who also had an extremely impressive season. 

They have an actual dominance statistic and Messenbrink didn't have a more dominant season.  You can make a good argument for Starocci.  You can't make a good argument for Messenbrink by criteria.  You have to ignore the criteria to make him better than 3rd.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, Idaho said:

Where do you find the 4 criteria? The ncaa site and the Dan Hodge site state there are 7 criteria. 
 

I always go to the WIN stories that list the criteria as they have changed over time. For example, from last year:

2024 Hodge Article

Also, we were fortunate enough to have the creator of the Hodge visit us a week, or so, ago and give us a little history lesson:

"Good discussion and beneficial to anyone interested in wrestlers being honored. When I first came up with the concept back in 1994, I sat down with Dan Hodge (my first book was "Two Guys Named Dan" in 1976 and we became very good friends) and told him of my plans to create something similar to the Heisman Trophy, to draw more media attention and to give college wrestlers something extra to shoot for. Dan endorsed the idea and said if I named it after him, he would like pinning to be an essential part. In 1956, Dan won three national titles (collegiate, freestyle and Greco-Roman) in two weeks time by pinning all 13 foes. I quickly agreed that pinning would be a main factor. But since then, Bryan Van Kley (who bought WIN from me many years ago) and I have tried to "keep up with the times" by including dominance to mean techs and majors, as well as pins. And we consult with many former coaches and leaders of the sport who are on the voting committee and try to listen to what fans are saying (WKN and JB, in particular) and some of my longtime friends who have been involved with the sport for over half a century. Bryan and I are proud that over 20,000 fans vote on line each year and that all the colleges that have a winner play it up big, both at the annual wrestling banquet and at a football game in the fall, often with 70,000 fans in attendance. And we greatly appreciate our sponsor Asics. The goal was always to make wrestling more visible and to honor those who excel at Mankind's Oldest Sport.  -- Mike Chapman"

[Rassling2]

A better view of this momentous result 

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/16TjfqEVsJ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[Idaho]

50 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I always go to the WIN stories that list the criteria as they have changed over time. For example, from last year:

2024 Hodge Article

Also, we were fortunate enough to have the creator of the Hodge visit us a week, or so, ago and give us a little history lesson:

"Good discussion and beneficial to anyone interested in wrestlers being honored. When I first came up with the concept back in 1994, I sat down with Dan Hodge (my first book was "Two Guys Named Dan" in 1976 and we became very good friends) and told him of my plans to create something similar to the Heisman Trophy, to draw more media attention and to give college wrestlers something extra to shoot for. Dan endorsed the idea and said if I named it after him, he would like pinning to be an essential part. In 1956, Dan won three national titles (collegiate, freestyle and Greco-Roman) in two weeks time by pinning all 13 foes. I quickly agreed that pinning would be a main factor. But since then, Bryan Van Kley (who bought WIN from me many years ago) and I have tried to "keep up with the times" by including dominance to mean techs and majors, as well as pins. And we consult with many former coaches and leaders of the sport who are on the voting committee and try to listen to what fans are saying (WKN and JB, in particular) and some of my longtime friends who have been involved with the sport for over half a century. Bryan and I are proud that over 20,000 fans vote on line each year and that all the colleges that have a winner play it up big, both at the annual wrestling banquet and at a football game in the fall, often with 70,000 fans in attendance. And we greatly appreciate our sponsor Asics. The goal was always to make wrestling more visible and to honor those who excel at Mankind's Oldest Sport.  -- Mike Chapman"

Yeah, WIN is good and is one of the few (maybe the only one) that actually has a formula. Wrestlesat also has point value. This article still doesn't address that there are actually 4 criteria. The website for the award and the NCAA have the same exact verbage of there being 7 criteria.  At the end of the day, those who vote are going to make their 1st- 2nd-3rd place votes on who they feel best represents the 7 criteria - each voter will have bias and an emphasis in their own mind of why a wrestler gets their 1st - 2nd - 3rd place vote....like the Heisman...which should have been won by Jeanty.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

10 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Yeah, WIN is good and is one of the few (maybe the only one) that actually has a formula. Wrestlesat also has point value. This article still doesn't address that there are actually 4 criteria. The website for the award and the NCAA have the same exact verbage of there being 7 criteria.  At the end of the day, those who vote are going to make their 1st- 2nd-3rd place votes on who they feel best represents the 7 criteria - each voter will have bias and an emphasis in their own mind of why a wrestler gets their 1st - 2nd - 3rd place vote....like the Heisman...which should have been won by Jeanty.  

You must have missed this in the article:

Criteria for the Hodge includes a wrestler’s record, dominance/bonus-point percentage, quality of competition and sportsmanship.

[SaltMerchant]

23 hours ago, pokemonster said:

What are the chances that this was a set up and Gable got a payout to lose to Hendrickson? All to boost ratings.

Too good to be true, with 30 seconds left Gable loses........completely staged....US flag, US president, Air Force Grad...& so  much $$$$$ involved in betting in Vegas.....something is fishy about all this..........NIL $$$$ & Vegas

[Wrestleknownothing]

16 minutes ago, SaltMerchant said:

Too good to be true, with 30 seconds left Gable loses........completely staged....US flag, US president, Air Force Grad...& so  much $$$$$ involved in betting in Vegas.....something is fishy about all this..........NIL $$$$ & Vegas

But nothing fishy about you creating this persona to post this five times.

[Paul158]

1 hour ago, SaltMerchant said:

Too good to be true, with 30 seconds left Gable loses........completely staged....US flag, US president, Air Force Grad...& so  much $$$$$ involved in betting in Vegas.....something is fishy about all this..........NIL $$$$ & Vegas

Are you OK? Conspiracy, really? Maybe the Russians are involved. Again!!!!!

[Paul158]

52 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

But nothing fishy about you creating this persona to post this five times.

I don't think Salt ever stepped on a mat. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

I don't think Salt ever stepped on a mat. 

Well, I of all people, cannot hold that against him. He seems bitter about betting on Steveson and losing. He can't be wrong, so the only logical explanation is it was fixed.

[Paul158]

Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

Well, I of all people, cannot hold that against him. He seems bitter about betting on Steveson and losing. He can't be wrong, so the only logical explanation is it was fixed.

I know, you were a swimmer. But you understand competition, hard work and what it takes to achieve your goals. You also have common sense which isn't very common these days.

[RockLobster]

There's no doubt at this point, the Hodge will go to Hendrickson and his 70's pornstache.

The pre-match flag wearing was bad form. Like wearing a checkered flag at the start of a NASCAR race. Just bad.

But to the winner goes the spoils, and Hendrickson is the guy this year.

[BaldAt23]

On 3/23/2025 at 5:28 PM, Idaho said:

Where do you find the 4 criteria? The ncaa site and the Dan Hodge site state there are 7 criteria. 
 

WIN magazine website 

[Seanyd]

On 3/22/2025 at 11:27 PM, pokemonster said:

Idk, Quinn made him look like a beta twink when he made him take his headgear off to show him how "pretty" he was. And he obliged. We know what that was about. Can't get hodge votes after that.

You don't think he's getting both of Ben's votes?

[Oklahomaglory]

Out of Wyatt and Carter, only Carter needed OT to win  (Keck and Max). All of Wyatt wins were in regulation and his dominance score (5.17) is the best of them all. It has to be Wyatt. 

[nhs67]

On 3/23/2025 at 6:31 PM, billyhoyle said:

Messenbrink only had 3 matches total that weren't bonus point wins.  2 of those three were against #2 guy, who he had teched earlier in the year.  

Hendrickson had a great season too with many pins, but we have always seen heavyweights be more likely to win by pin, especially against weaker competitors.  

Like I said, I think it should be Starocci because of the 5 NCAA titles. I simply said MM had a more dominant season than Hendrickson, who also had an extremely impressive season. 

Mesenbrink beat 'only' three AA this season.

Pindrickson beat two former NCAA champions, one of them a two-time hodge winner himself.

[TylerDurden]

Pindrickson is going to win and he probably should. He has big pin numbers and beat two national champs to win the title. 

No one else did that. 

For me, Starocci is second because it feels like his competition was a tougher than Mesenbrink, even though Mesenbrink's results were more "dominant" on the scoreboard. 

I'm not sure who else someone could realistically vote for in a top three. Hamiti, maybe. 

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

13 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

Pindrickson is going to win and he probably should. He has big pin numbers and beat two national champs to win the title. 

No one else did that. 

For me, Starocci is second because it feels like his competition was a tougher than Mesenbrink, even though Mesenbrink's results were more "dominant" on the scoreboard. 

I'm not sure who else someone could realistically vote for in a top three. Hamiti, maybe. 

 

And Hamiti would need to be a write in. I feel like only an OSU fan would do that, and they would not do that because they are all voting for Pinfalldrickson.

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

And Hamiti would need to be a write in. I feel like only an OSU fan would do that, and they would not do that because they are all voting for Pinfalldrickson.

Problem is the only OSU fans voting for "Pinfalldrickson" are voting the Hodgefodge ballot.  

[Dark Energy]

Like the Heisman, the Hodge is a season-season award given to the wrestler who gets the most amount of first-place votes from the Hodge Trophy Voting Committee and Fan Vote based on these criteria: record, dominance/bonus-point percentage, quality of competition and sportsmanship.
 

The above is from the WIN voting site.  NO mention of past accomplishments. Felt like that was a factor in the past.

 

Regarding sportsmanship, do we have any data points to judge from?