Hodge for Hendrickson

[BaldAt23]

7 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

What are you waiting for? If you think it's a good idea - get on it! Chop chop.

I already did earlier in the thread. But will happily post again 

1 – Record

2 – Dominance/Bonus-Point Percentage

3 – Quality of Competition

4 – Sportsmanship

[scourge165]

3 minutes ago, BaldAt23 said:

I already did earlier in the thread. But will happily post again 

1 – Record

2 – Dominance/Bonus-Point Percentage

3 – Quality of Competition

4 – Sportsmanship

Now post my "hidden agenda?"

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, buckshot said:

Also Carter beat 6 of the other guys in the top ten while Hendrickson beat 4 and one was a hobbled Kerk.

Who did you pick in the semis match between Kerk and Hendrickson?  I am guessing Kerk.  Kerk wasn't hobbled until after Hendrickson ran through him.  And judging by Hendrickson going out and beating the guy guy who ran through Kerk 2 weeks ago, Hendrickson would have run through Kerk no matter the sudden health issue.

[okokzach]

33 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Who did you pick in the semis match between Kerk and Hendrickson?  I am guessing Kerk.  Kerk wasn't hobbled until after Hendrickson ran through him.  And judging by Hendrickson going out and beating the guy guy who ran through Kerk 2 weeks ago, Hendrickson would have run through Kerk no matter the sudden health issue.

Some have said Kerkvliet was injured in practice sometime after B10s. He was still good enough to get to the semis, including a tech. We all saw Hendrickson get injured in the B12 finals. Some have said he pulled a bicep, but I'm not sure the specifics. They were both bandaged up. As you noted, Gable throttled Kerk two weeks ago when Kerk was fully healthy.

[boconnell]

4 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Some have said Kerkvliet was injured in practice sometime after B10s. He was still good enough to get to the semis, including a tech. We all saw Hendrickson get injured in the B12 finals. Some have said he pulled a bicep, but I'm not sure the specifics. They were both bandaged up. As you noted, Gable throttled Kerk two weeks ago when Kerk was fully healthy.

It was weird that people dismissed the win over Kerk as mostly about health.  It's even weirder after Hendrickson beat Gable.  

[nickp91]

When rulon gardner beat karelin in 2000 for Olympics gold I was shocked now 25 years later my shock may have been equaled by Wyatt Hendrickson taking down table Gable Stevenson

[Rassling2]

5 hours ago, Caveira said:

No facts.   But someone on the minnows page is saying that gable said you can’t wear an American flag to an officer in the Air Force if you did not win Olympic gold.  

Of course he said that - some of us were onto this pos since day 1

[Iwrite]

• Posted 9 hours ago

I bet the spineless people who give the award out give it to Starocci and Hendrickson.

 

There were 20,000 "spinelss people" who voted last year on line and a committee of former Dan Hodge Trophy winners, retired coaches and representavies from major wrestling organizations.

To quote another wrestler who was also successful in poitics -- "With malice toward none, with charity for all."

 

 

[jchapman]

The flag issue is silly.  The flag is not exclusive to Olympic Champions, just is it is not exclusive to members of the military.

An interesting note from the US Flag Code:

“The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds but always allowed to fall free.”

 

[Paul158]

12 hours ago, NorthCarolina said:

Less bonus than MM. 

 

The Hodge is going to Starr. 

MM didn't have a 2 time NCAA champ and Olympic Gold medalist in his weight class. Not even close.

[NormMacDonald]

13 hours ago, pokemonster said:

ESPN put what all of us knew would be an obvious blow out as their premier match of the night... Had him carry an American flag out.... Had him salute Donald Trump as the American Hero.... it's a storybook ending. And Gable isn't that good of an actor to play it off like he was actually shocked. Facts.

This is why the had Gable in WWE training camp at NXT.  It was to learn how to act and sell for this match and he pulled it off beautifully 

[jackwebster]

3 minutes ago, NormMacDonald said:

This is why the had Gable in WWE training camp at NXT.  It was to learn how to act and sell for this match and he pulled it off beautifully 

For real, how facetious is this claim? Like 95%? 75%? 50%?

[billyhoyle]

Hodge should be Starocci. If you want to base it on bonus %, then it should be MM. But Starocci just did something nobody ever will again.  These two guys led the single greatest NCAA team we have ever seen.  

 

No doubt Hendrickson deserved OW for NCAAs though. But that doesn't erase that the two PSU guys are more deserving of the award.

Edited yesterday at 05:08 PM by billyhoyle

[OMW]

11 hours ago, boconnell said:

Who did you pick in the semis match between Kerk and Hendrickson?  I am guessing Kerk.  Kerk wasn't hobbled until after Hendrickson ran through him.  And judging by Hendrickson going out and beating the guy guy who ran through Kerk 2 weeks ago, Hendrickson would have run through Kerk no matter the sudden health issue.

Sanderson said in his interview last night that Kerkvliet injured his knee at practice during the week and they weren't sure if he would be able to wrestle NCAAs. He explained what happened in his 1st match and how it was through Thursday.

Hendrickson very well could have beaten a healthy Kerk. He won regardless and then beat Steveson. 

Nothing is diminished in his accomplishments. He has a great case for winning the Hodge - a very complete season.

It appears you're suggesting that there was no problem with Kerkvliet and based upon what Sanderson said, that shouldn't be the narrative. One thing the Penn State staff doesn't do is make excuses.

[NormMacDonald]

7 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

For real, how facetious is this claim? Like 95%? 75%? 50%?

Man, IDK what that word means. 

[Caveira]

14 minutes ago, OMW said:

Sanderson said in his interview last night that Kerkvliet injured his knee at practice during the week and they weren't sure if he would be able to wrestle NCAAs. He explained what happened in his 1st match and how it was through Thursday.

Hendrickson very well could have beaten a healthy Kerk. He won regardless and then beat Steveson. 

Nothing is diminished in his accomplishments. He has a great case for winning the Hodge - a very complete season.

It appears you're suggesting that there was no problem with Kerkvliet and based upon what Sanderson said, that shouldn't be the narrative. One thing the Penn State staff doesn't do is make excuses.

How much do you diminish a win over someone who is to some degree injured.   There is a 500 page thread about someone else dominating Mekhi Lewis and Shane Griffith last year and both were clearly injured.   It feels like psu fans want their proverbial cake and want to eat it too.  

[Wolfman2610]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

Hodge should be Starocci. If you want to base it on bonus %, then it should be MM. But Starocci just did something nobody ever will again.  These two guys led the single greatest NCAA team we have ever seen.  

 

No doubt Hendrickson deserved OW for NCAAs though. But that doesn't erase that the two PSU guys are more deserving of the award.

I respectfully see it differently!  

Looking at all three of their 2024-2025 seasons (not considering past achievements); I found that it could be argued that Hendrickson is easily the most deserving choice

1) He was mathematically proven to be the most dominant wrestler in the nation

2) His wins over Steveson, Kerkvliet, Trumble (3x; twice by fall), and Schultz (2x) are as, if not impressive than anyone that MM beat this year (including Caliendo)...

3) He just beat a 24-year-old Olympic Gold medalist; Starocci barely beat two college freshmen!

-The 5x Champ thing is cool; but meaningless since he was the only way capable of doing it!  If Smith, Sanderson, Dake, Stieber, Diakomihalis, or Brooks were given five chances; they too would be 5x champs!

-Look at the coverage the sport is receiving right now....Because of the shock value, Hendrickson's win last night brought more attention from traditionally non-sport genre outlets than any of Starocci's five titles did!

Edited yesterday at 06:46 PM by Wolfman2610
rewording something already written!

[NorthCarolina]

4 hours ago, Paul158 said:

MM didn't have a 2 time NCAA champ and Olympic Gold medalist in his weight class. Not even close.

I didn’t say MM would get the Hodge. CStar will imo. Similar bonus numbers, similar competition (statistically speaking) and then you add in how many votes Penn State gets. 

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, OMW said:

Sanderson said in his interview last night that Kerkvliet injured his knee at practice during the week and they weren't sure if he would be able to wrestle NCAAs. He explained what happened in his 1st match and how it was through Thursday.

Hendrickson very well could have beaten a healthy Kerk. He won regardless and then beat Steveson. 

Nothing is diminished in his accomplishments. He has a great case for winning the Hodge - a very complete season.

It appears you're suggesting that there was no problem with Kerkvliet and based upon what Sanderson said, that shouldn't be the narrative. One thing the Penn State staff doesn't do is make excuses.

What happened in his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round matches?  Was he hobbled there?  Did the practice hobbling occur Friday afternoon?

Obviously the PSU coaches aren't lying.  Obviously he had some type of injury in practice last week.  But until the Hendrickson match he moved fine and remained the guy he's always been.  Then suddenly after the loss message board comments (not PSU coaches) declared that he was hobbled.  Hobbled is a pretty extreme injury description and it doesn't describe what he was the first 3 rounds.  It also isn't close to the description the PSU coaches gave of his status entering the Semis.  If they claimed he was hobbled and they threw him out there anyways, then they're terrible coaches.  But that's not what happened.  He had a slight injury (like Hendrickson also had, and like most do at this point in the season).  But he still walked through the first 3 rounds before Hendrickson beat him.  

[ionel]

13 minutes ago, boconnell said:

What happened in his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round matches?  Was he hobbled there?  Did the practice hobbling occur Friday afternoon?

Obviously the PSU coaches aren't lying.  Obviously he had some type of injury in practice last week.  But until the Hendrickson match he moved fine and remained the guy he's always been.  Then suddenly after the loss message board comments (not PSU coaches) declared that he was hobbled.  Hobbled is a pretty extreme injury description and it doesn't describe what he was the first 3 rounds.  It also isn't close to the description the PSU coaches gave of his status entering the Semis.  If they claimed he was hobbled and they threw him out there anyways, then they're terrible coaches.  But that's not what happened.  He had a slight injury (like Hendrickson also had, and like most do at this point in the season).  But he still walked through the first 3 rounds before Hendrickson beat him.  

He was fine till he did too much drilling downstairs.  

[Dark Energy]

Human psychology is at play in the Hodge, big time.  #1 Wyatt’s mega explosion at NCAAs will have a lasting mental effect.  #2 I imagine there is some Penn State fatigue.  #3 I think most, when think hard about it, think that 5 titles is bull poop.  Any of the priors with 4 would be heavy favorites to get 5.   Not a big deal.

I think these heavily lean Wyatt.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Put my vote down for Wyatt. Biggest upset, dominant, complete season, including the most falls of any contender. Plus, from all accounts he seems like an upstanding guy who didn't post pictures of a dildo on his social media for thousands of kids to see, unlike Starocci Hollywood.

[OMW]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

How much do you diminish a win over someone who is to some degree injured.   There is a 500 page thread about someone else dominating Mekhi Lewis and Shane Griffith last year and both were clearly injured.   It feels like psu fans want their proverbial cake and want to eat it too.  

Maybe you're generalizing, but there's nothing in my statement diminishing Hendrickson's win over Kerkvliet. 

I posted that Sanderson said he was injured prior to NCAAs and that they weren't sure he'd be able to compete.

As for what else you reference above, I guess you're discussing the guy that had torn ligaments in his knee, that had to get an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament and was given a 9 seed? He was clearly injured as well.

I'm not a what-aboutism and cake and eat it too type.

Posters claim that Kerkvliet got a case of the sads because he lost. He was injured, re-injured and shut down for the rest of the tournament. That isn't fans, that's from PSUs coach. 

Hendrickson had a terrific weekend and won in the semis & finals against two previous champs and proved he was the best heavy in the tournament.

As I stated, he made a great case for the Hodge. For what he did during the season and how he finished, there should be no argument if he gets it.

[Idaho]

16 hours ago, BaldAt23 said:

I already did earlier in the thread. But will happily post again 

1 – Record

2 – Dominance/Bonus-Point Percentage

3 – Quality of Competition

4 – Sportsmanship

Where do you find the 4 criteria? The ncaa site and the Dan Hodge site state there are 7 criteria. 
 

[boconnell]

4 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Hodge should be Starocci. If you want to base it on bonus %, then it should be MM. But Starocci just did something nobody ever will again.  These two guys led the single greatest NCAA team we have ever seen.  

 

No doubt Hendrickson deserved OW for NCAAs though. But that doesn't erase that the two PSU guys are more deserving of the award.

This is a huge stretch and not sure where it comes from.  According to the Hodge website;

Quote

Originally created to celebrate the pin in college wrestling, the Dan Hodge Trophy is based on seven criteria including record, a number of pins, dominance, past credentials, quality of competition, sportsmanship/citizenship, and heart.

The trophy is based primarily on the results of a single season, but past accomplishments are considered as well, particularly in years where the competition is tighter. 

 

Record is a wash.  Pins is advantage Hendrickson.  Dominance is advantage Hendrickson.  Past credentials is advantage Starocci and MM.  Quality of competition is advantage Starocci and Hendrickson.  Sportsmanship is no advantage anywhere.

You can reasonably say Starocci is more deserving according to the conversation.  You could also reasonably say Hendrickson.  I have no idea how you just declare that Messenbrink is more deserving than Starocci when the criteria are available and they do not add up that way.