Jump to content

Starocci 2nd best ever?

Zahnarzt

By Zahnarzt
in College Wrestling

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 146
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Ragu
Ragu

Most underwhelming 4 tome champ easily. Changing that number to a 5 doesn’t do much to move the needle for me

peanut
peanut

Being a four-timer is super impressive.  It takes an insane amount of work and talent and at least some luck (to be healthy enough to compete) to win a single title. But when you consider that ea

Zahnarzt
Zahnarzt

For me, I would say 5 is relevant only because he accepted the burden of pursuing it.  As history has shown, there are no guarantees.  There is a constant emergence of new talent that challenges the g

Posted Images

Wrestleknownothing Big Brain

Wrestleknownothing

Posted
Posted
  On 3/16/2025 at 11:59 PM, scourge165 said:

I'm not trying to take ANYTHING away from Dake. I'm just pointing out...I feel like one gets a pass for a conservative style of wrestling and the other gets crushed for it...

This match here is a great example. He gives up the only TD. He's in a 3 point stance for much of it. I don't know why Humphrey cuts him with ~14 seconds left in the period, but he doesn't really put up a fight, just lets him go. And Dake wins a 3-2 match. 

 

He did it as a Freshmen, 4 Titles, it all speaks for itself, but with Starocci, he majors everyone this year and then Ferrari Wrestlers in a similar style, losses 3-1 and you have people starting threads about how this is why they're "pre-emptively" pointing this out to keep him off the "Mt Rushmore" of College Wrestling. 

Expand  

Here is how they rank statistically. Unfortunately finding career bonus percentages is tough, but I do not think that will change the order much, if at all.

image.png.7c845d4afc321c76a626a4d5066ef640.png

If you added in things like total wins or total pinfalls, the older guys move up due to their higher usage rate.

  • Bob 2

Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge

Caveira Big Brain

Caveira

Posted
Posted
  On 3/17/2025 at 12:47 AM, Caveira said:

At the ncaa wrestling tournament 

Dake had 9 of 20 bonus point wins.    

Carter had 4.   
 

Not sure which one, but one lit up lot up a lot more people at the ncaa tourney than the other.  

Expand  

If I counted correctly, Cael had 18 bonus point victories at NCAAs.     To put in perspective vs dake 9 vs carter 4.   18.    That’s crazy.  
 

Malik amine already said on big 10 live tv it puts him (cstall) ahead of Cael.   Solely because of the 5.  Media needs talking points but that idea is 183% nonsense.  

  • Bob 2
Paul158 Big Brain

Paul158

Posted
Posted
  On 3/17/2025 at 12:56 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Here is how they rank statistically. Unfortunately finding career bonus percentages is tough, but I do not think that will change the order much, if at all.

image.png.7c845d4afc321c76a626a4d5066ef640.png

If you added in things like total wins or total pinfalls, the older guys move up due to their higher usage rate.

Expand  

Nice job. Thanks.

fishbane NCAA All-American

fishbane

Posted
Posted
  On 3/17/2025 at 1:08 AM, Fletcher said:

Kid's almost lost to 2 freshmen. Let's slow our roll.

I hope you didn't jinx him.

Expand  

It will take some time to understand the significance of those matches.  The two freshman haven't been beaten by anyone else.  Wins over them could enhance his already impressive resume.  Logan Stieber lost to a true freshman his senior year.  That freshman went on to win 3 NCAA titles and two Hoge awards. 

  • Bob 1
  • Jagger 1
RawDog State Champion

RawDog

Posted
Posted

I think people don't realize how good Keck is.  Keck could easily be a three timer if he didn't have two 4x champs at his weight. Keck is a monster.  If Starocci wins that will be his signature win. I think it would give Starocci an argument for greatest college wrestler of all time. At worst it's puts him 3rd behind Cael and Dake. It definitely puts him first on Penn states mt Rushmore.

  • Bob 1
  • Jagger 1
OH-IO Junior Varsity

OH-IO

Posted
Posted
  On 3/16/2025 at 11:05 PM, dragit said:

Dake won his first title 9 months after graduating high school.  He beat a very good Marion in the final.

The next year he ground a future undefeated national champion into Molinaro dust.

The next year he beat a future national champion in the final.

And then he went up a weight class to take on the defending and future Hodge winner and future Olympic gold medalist and beat him three times in three different kinds of matches.

To me only Cael could potentially challenge that career, and I'd put Dake over him because of the redshirt.

Expand  

maybe his (Dake's) feshmen year was it........

D. Caldwell the defending returning National champ was in Dakes weight class, Caldwell who took out Metcalf the year before had to FF out of the National Tourney, Many could have utalized a shudda, cudda wudda i get it Dake most likely is a runner up the year Caldwell was in his weight class........ nothing for nothing sometimes a little luck needs to be on yourside to win 4 NCAA D1 Championships, 

scourge165 Big Brain

scourge165

Posted
Posted
  On 3/16/2025 at 11:34 PM, dragit said:

Great points.  My main comeback is what's your confidence level he would have won without the redshirt?

Expand  

My guess is he probably goes 177 with those rules and he's Wrestling Mitch Clark(if he can make it that far)...

Guessing who wins that is next to impossible. 

scourge165 Big Brain

scourge165

Posted
Posted
  On 3/16/2025 at 10:55 PM, CHROMEBIRD said:

Starocci should get some credit for chasing after #5, yes, but the problem is that none of the four-timers even had the opportunity to do so. 

Also, Dake won at four different weights and got his first as a TF. I believe Starocci had both a redshirt year and a free Covid year.

Expand  

Yeah, he took a RS because Mark Hall was still at '74 and the strong favorite to win it. 

The 4 different weights doesn't do much for me and all the things Starocci gets nailed for, Dake did. Close matches...I'm actually curious what each bonus rate was(Dake's in particular). 

They both have 4 losses with two of them being MFF for Star which wouldn't have counted for Dake. And obviously Starocci had a free covid year or he'd be done. But Cael took a RS. I don't see people hold that against him. 

dragit College Starter

dragit

Posted
Posted

I probably wouldn't have him as the GOAT if he wins this weekend, but I still think some of the disrespect for Starocci is a little strange.  Hasn't lost on the mat since freshman year, and that year avenged a loss and beat a very good Kemerer in the final.  Last year finished with three straight shutouts, two over former champions, to win his fourth straight title on a badly injured knee.  He has literally met every challenge in a five year career, many of which have been substantial, with Keck looming as the latest and last such obstacle.

  • Fire 1
Caveira Big Brain

Caveira

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/17/2025 at 2:35 AM, scourge165 said:

The 4 different weights doesn't do much for me and all the things Starocci gets nailed for, Dake did.

Expand  

It’s posted above.  Twice.  Dake had 125% more bonus wins at NCAAs compared to cstall.    And I think 200% more pins.  
 

can someone ever say.  I’m in the conversation for the goat with 0 hodge trophies?   Every single year he won a title someone else was more dominant.    If you’re the goat.  You dominate.  
 

 

Edited by Caveira
  • Brain 1
scourge165 Big Brain

scourge165

Posted
Posted
  On 3/17/2025 at 12:56 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Here is how they rank statistically. Unfortunately finding career bonus percentages is tough, but I do not think that will change the order much, if at all.

image.png.7c845d4afc321c76a626a4d5066ef640.png

If you added in things like total wins or total pinfalls, the older guys move up due to their higher usage rate.

Expand  

Lets use the same criteria for Starocci that the others had. That's 2 losses. He moves up to...98-2. So then he's behind I believe just Cael and maybe Yianni.

He also wrestled 5 years of a B10 schedule. I think he deserves a little credit for that. 

I don't know what "top Quartile count" means though. 

 

scourge165 Big Brain

scourge165

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/17/2025 at 2:10 AM, OH-IO said:

maybe his (Dake's) feshmen year was it........

D. Caldwell the defending returning National champ was in Dakes weight class, Caldwell who took out Metcalf the year before had to FF out of the National Tourney, Many could have utalized a shudda, cudda wudda i get it Dake most likely is a runner up the year Caldwell was in his weight class........ nothing for nothing sometimes a little luck needs to be on yourside to win 4 NCAA D1 Championships, 

Expand  

Yeah, but then you look at Mekhi Lewis and Starocci. Both had pretty significant injuries. Starr was able to fight through it and win a title. 

  On 3/17/2025 at 2:38 AM, dragit said:

I probably wouldn't have him as the GOAT if he wins this weekend, but I still think some of the disrespect for Starocci is a little strange.  Hasn't lost on the mat since freshman year, and that year avenged a loss and beat a very good Kemerer in the final.  Last year finished with three straight shutouts, two over former champions, to win his fourth straight title on a badly injured knee.  He has literally met every challenge in a five year career, many of which have been substantial, with Keck looming as the latest and last such obstacle.

Expand  

Exactly. It's just...strange to me. For all intents and purposes, he's 98-2 in his career, 4X Champ, losses his first duel meet as a Freshmen and then in the B1Gs to Kemerer who was top 4, 4 Times. Lewis was 

Lewis was top 4 4X with a NC and the #1 seed when HE was injured...otherwise he's likely a champ.
Shane Griffith was undefeated in 2020 and then went 1, 2, 5, 3
Hayden Hidlay, another guy he stopped. 2, 4, 3, 5. 

Foca, Labriola...what do you want from the guy?

I'm not seeing the distinguishing traits that Smith, Stieber, Brooks, Dake or Yianni had over him. 

 

-Edit-I agree though, I don't think people appreciate his greatness. I'm not all that invested in "ranking" them...though I'd have Cael and Brooks at #1 and #2 if I'm leaving Starocci out of it. 

Maybe Smith for being the first. 

It's REALLY thin margins, but how they finish their careers is important so Stieber and Yianni both took losses. Cael dominated all the way through. Dake beating Taylor puts him above the bottom, but I'm not sure how far up. 

Edited by scourge165
OH-IO Junior Varsity

OH-IO

Posted
Posted
  On 3/17/2025 at 2:40 AM, scourge165 said:

Lets use the same criteria for Starocci that the others had. That's 2 losses. He moves up to...98-2. So then he's behind I believe just Cael and maybe Yianni.

He also wrestled 5 years of a B10 schedule. I think he deserves a little credit for that. 

I don't know what "top Quartile count" means though. 

 

Expand  

nice feedback!!!!

Im starting to see some light in your thinking........ Starr is definitely right there...

oh my I could not imagine 5 years of a B10 schedule, staying healthy and motivated that long takes a different type of engine (plus that wrestling room he's in and you know Cael had to get in there and throw his weight aroung, kind of like keeping the young bull in check), im very close "scourage165" to leaning with ya, lol 

  • Brain 1
Ched64 State Qualifier

Ched64

Posted
Posted

I think the thing that sets Dake apart is that he moved up his senior year not because he grew out of 157 but specifically because Taylor was at 165 and he wanted the challenge.  I know one of the Banachs were involved in something like that but really, who does that? Move up to take on arguably the absolute best wrestler in the country at that time? Then he beats him 3 times to nil.  I think Cael is the GOAT but Dake is right up there.  4 years straight, no redshirt, no covid. He was never interested in style points…he was just a winner flat out all through that run.

  • Bob 2
fishbane NCAA All-American

fishbane

Posted
Posted
  On 3/17/2025 at 3:40 AM, OH-IO said:

dag on it "fishbane" you beat me to it.......

 

I hear ya "Ched64", your right not many do that!!!

Expand  

Do we have it backwards though?  Owings cut weight to face Gable, right?

OH-IO Junior Varsity

OH-IO

Posted
Posted
  On 3/17/2025 at 3:44 AM, fishbane said:

Do we have it backwards though?  Owings cut weight to face Gable, right?

Expand  

I am pretty certain Owings "cut" to 142???  kind of like a "vision quest" type moment 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...