How would Endene do in D1 this year?

[Fletcher]

Now a three-time D3 champ at 197. How do we think he would stack up against Buchanan, Cardenas, Barr, and Ferrari?

[maligned]

Lots of in-season examples show us that D2/D3/NAIA champs are roughly D1 qualifier level--but only AA level in rare cases. 

Wabash 4-time D3 undefeated champ Lefever was in numerous open tournaments from 2015 to 17, with a winning record against D1 national qualifiers but a losing record against AAs. He was more dominant in D3 at 197 than Endene, bonusing everyone in the old scoring system his last 2 years in addition to being unbeaten all 4 seasons.

He did then continue to improve and placed top 5 multiple times in US world team qualifier tournaments at 92 and 97kg.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Idk anything about him, but with D1 wrestling being what it is these days why not  go back to the pre-1980 or whatever format and give an AQ spot or two to the D2/D3 champs & runners-up? It would be fun to see those guys bang with D1 wrestlers and maybe cause some bracket chaos. Perhaps earn a D1 NIL opportunity in the process. Hopefully it wouldn't ruin D2 & D3 wrestling, but I assume they're getting looks all the same from the bigger programs looking for transfers.

[jackwebster]

These conversations generally conclude that the multi-time D3 champ could compete with average D1 guys and might qualify for nationals. However, they could not compete at the AA-level.

The variables in this fantasy match are stuff like will the D3 guy get to train in A D1 room and for how long?

I coached a D3 multi-time champ when he was still in HS. His experience -- by his own admission --  seems to confirm the above. Tight wins against middle of the road D1 guys, but didn't get a chance to wrestle AA types until moving to the senior level.

 

*Edit: sorry, the other guys beat me to it.

Edited March 16 by jackwebster

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Idk anything about him, but with D1 wrestling being what it is these days why not  go back to the pre-1980 or whatever format and give an AQ spot or two to the D2/D3 champs & runners-up? It would be fun to see those guys bang with D1 wrestlers and maybe cause some bracket chaos. Perhaps earn a D1 NIL opportunity in the process. Hopefully it wouldn't ruin D2 & D3 wrestling, but I assume they're getting looks all the same from the bigger programs looking for transfers.

I wrestled D2.  Graduated in early 90s.  I had a teammate qualify for the d1 tourney.

Another guy, my roommate was 5th in D2 and had multiple wins over qualifiers including splitting with a R12 guy, including a win by major in their last meeting as seniors.

A lot has changed in 30 years.  The D1s are better at recruiting and don't miss on as many guys.  The d1 training and coaching is better than it was, I think.  Also the lower divisions don't get to challenge themselves as much against the big boys anymore.  My roommate had a much closer match against the r12 guy than he thought it would be in their first meeting.  That gave him a lot of confidence.  When they met each other again less than a month later, my roommate took it to him and even turned the guy.  I'm not sure how much that could happen these days.I mean, I was maybe above average d2 and I would hold d1 qualifiers/top 20 types to a regular decision if I had a decent match.

Edited March 16 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Caveira]

Shane liegal may be a good example.  24 seed went 2-2 at NCAAs (d1) last year.  Was a 4x AA 2x finalist 1x d3 champ at Loras college.  
 

https://duhawks.com/sports/wrestling/roster/shane-liegel/11154

[flyingcement]

I think Endene would have been a NQ type with an ability to win at least one match at nationals (in my view)

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

There are just too many variables to accurately predict what would happen, but each guy presents his own abilities, good or bad.

I do agree that D1 coaches don't miss many of the top guys anymore, so the distance between D1 and everyone else is slowly increasing.

[Alces Alces Gigas]

Not much D1 overlap between divisions anymore with the lower levels not counting towards D1  RPI.  The last two D2 wrestlers that really had success against D1s were both HWTs    Dlagnev and Sigman.

 

I remember talking to Conrad once after he had lost to Sigman earlier in the season and asked how Les would do at D1s     his response was not as good as Midlands because we would all have tape on him and be prepared 

 

[wrestlingfan22]

Endene made a u23 world team (in a weak bracket) and beat Stemmet from Stanford who is the 17 seed this year. So I would expect him to win a few matches at NCAAs but with how stacked 197 is this year I think he would be draw dependent to AA

[Ragu]

He’s a beast he would AA

[bnwtwg]

55 minutes ago, wrestlingfan22 said:

Endene made a u23 world team (in a weak bracket) and beat Stemmet from Stanford who is the 17 seed this year. So I would expect him to win a few matches at NCAAs but with how stacked 197 is this year I think he would be draw dependent to AA

197 is a lot of things this year, but "stacked" is not one of them. A better description would be "wide-open with no clear-cut favorite and 14 guys who could AA and no one would bat an eye"

[Fletcher]

Some of you are probably wondering if I can see the future, since I posted this topic back in March.

All I can say is to hold off on buying Tesla stock for 12 months.

[Winners Circle]

On 3/16/2025 at 12:20 PM, Fletcher said:

Now a three-time D3 champ at 197. How do we think he would stack up against Buchanan, Cardenas, Barr, and Ferrari?

[Dogbone]

Soldier Salute Champion!

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Iowa will make him into a AA

[MNRodent]

I haven't seen him live, but to me he looks like a bulked up 174 pounder.  I think he will have leverage problems against the top guys.

 

[strange_daze]

A couple examples of DII guys who made the leap some time ago: Jody Strittmatter (2XChamp at P-J, 2X All-American at Iowa) and Tervel Dlagnev (multiple time world/olympic medalist).

I know there are others, but I'm guessing not many in the last decade.

I think there's some parity in overall talent (at the highest levels of DII, anyway), but a major difference, probably, is in mentality and training. D1 guys want that lifestyle; other athletes work hard but may not live and breathe it in a way that would have them knocking off AAs left and right. 

I suppose that's part of what makes D1 athletes D1 athletes.

[Ragu]

Iowa can make him a D1 champ if he buys in

[okokzach]

Is there generally a similar difference in levels between D2 and D3 the way there is between D1 and D2? 

[Gus]

4 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Is there generally a similar difference in levels between D2 and D3 the way there is between D1 and D2? 

Not at all. 

[wrestlingfan22]

30 minutes ago, Gus said:

Not at all. 

It depends on the sport, but D3 is often stronger than D2 as there are far more D3 programs (which don't require scholarships), and many of those D3 schools have higher academics than the D2 schools. Wrestling specific I would say D2 and D3 are pretty inseparable and a dual of National Champs vs National Champs would be very close. 

Edit: just realized replied to the wrong comment. Oh well

Edited 14 hours ago by wrestlingfan22

[okokzach]

Champ vs champ duals would be sick 

[Griff the BullRam]

As a former D2 wrestler, I found the level of D2 and D3 wrestling to be pretty equal to each other, with D1 being quite a bit ahead of both. If you want to think of it this way, D1 is is the MLB, and everything else (D2, D3, NAIA, etc) is a similar level of minor league ball. I had a teammate who was a 3x D2 qualifier and 1x All American, and he would get spanked by D2 champ who transferred out of D1 after not cracking the lineup. This isn't meant to disparage anyone or say that Endene can't compete in D1, but as a whole, D1 is a significant step up from D2/D3, etc.

[Gus]

9 minutes ago, Griff the BullRam said:

As a former D2 wrestler, I found the level of D2 and D3 wrestling to be pretty equal to each other, with D1 being quite a bit ahead of both. If you want to think of it this way, D1 is is the MLB, and everything else (D2, D3, NAIA, etc) is a similar level of minor league ball. I had a teammate who was a 3x D2 qualifier and 1x All American, and he would get spanked by D2 champ who transferred out of D1 after not cracking the lineup. This isn't meant to disparage anyone or say that Endene can't compete in D1, but as a whole, D1 is a significant step up from D2/D3, etc.

Good analogy and correct. Typically D2/3 guys are gonna struggle against D1. Endene did make the U23 team last year (albeit there were not any top D1 guys in the field) so he is not your typical D2 champ.