Big 12 Weightgate

[Idaho]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

All you have is somebody saying they heard someone say something.  There were two wrestlers, who did what when? 

I don't think that a wrestling correspondent that talked directly to 5 coaches who saw directly what happened, then reported what he was told from those coaches is the same as "somebody saying they heard someone say something. at t" But like I said, you can believe those 5 coaches and Dresser are lying and there was no controversy. At the end of the day they wrestled and you got what you wanted for your boys. Right?

[okokzach]

1 minute ago, Idaho said:

I would consider a wrestling correspondent that actually talked directly to 5 coaches who were there at weigh ins and Dresser who coaches there to be valid sources. You can believe that everyone is lying if you would like. 

Dresser was not there. Who knows if the "5 coaches" were there in the room or not. Harrison's tweets were in the morning of day one. His more recent statement was on the broadcast the second day of the tournament and he said that coaches were giving him their opinions. 

You know who was there? Big 12 officials. They additionally reviewed security footage. They also conferred with the NCAA to make a ruling. 

We don't have many facts from this, but we do know that the proper officials had all the facts and they made an impartial ruling.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Idaho said:

 But like I said, you can believe those 5 coaches and Dresser are lying and there was no controversy. 

Dresser really doesn't say anything and we don't know what the 5 said.

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I was once the subject of a VEWL weight-gate in which I showed up 2 minutes late for the weigh in.  Stepped onto the scale with my boots and winter jacket, still made the weight by over a pound.  All the coaches in VEWL voted on whether or not I could wrestle - it went one vote against me participating.  The weight in question was 48 pounds lol

 

Also as others shave mentioned, by the time you're cutting a lot of weight in middle school, you're usually weighing in naked to save the extra couple ounces.  I was unaware that there was an underwear requirement

Sickos were filming weigh-ins and posting online

[Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Bikes are so comfortable to sit on!

They actually are. I run a kids club out of the HS wrestling room and I can't keep them off the damned bikes.

[Fletcher]

16 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Dresser was not there. Who knows if the "5 coaches" were there in the room or not. Harrison's tweets were in the morning of day one. His more recent statement was on the broadcast the second day of the tournament and he said that coaches were giving him their opinions. 

You know who was there? Big 12 officials. They additionally reviewed security footage. They also conferred with the NCAA to make a ruling. 

We don't have many facts from this, but we do know that the proper officials had all the facts and they made an impartial ruling.

Dresser is also one of the most colossal s**t-talkers of our generation (and I like that about him). Everything he says needs to be taken with many grains of salt.

[flyingcement]

5 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Sickos were filming weigh-ins and posting online

I'm sorry I even asked.  unfortunately I'm not surprised

[Hammerlock3]

2 hours ago, okokzach said:

He weighed in on time and made weight. 

then what is the controversy

[TylerDurden]

6 hours ago, okokzach said:

 

Do you take the same stance when a cop gives you a ticket for failure to use your turn signal on a right-hand turn at a four-way stop? Not all rules are equally as important. There's also the spirit and intent of the law vs a legalistic reading of the law. The "rules is rules" crowd are a bunch of smooth-brained babies 

Red herring much? 

[ugarles]

5 hours ago, okokzach said:

They weighted in on time. Not extra time. Their opponents had the exact same time to recover. Not extra time. If anything it was a disadvantage, because their second-round opponent had more time to recover from their first round match.

i don't particularly care about how strictly they hew to the rules and don't care that the guys were allowed to wrestle. i tend to favor a little wiggle room and grace.

that said, the complaint is not that they weighed in late. the complaint is that they are supposed to arrive at 7:45 to check in for an 8:00 weigh-in. If they weren't there at 7:45 because they were exercising,* then even if they weighed in with their peers, they used more time to cut. That's the controversy. Feel free to dismiss it but at least meet the actual allegation head-on.

*allegedly! i don't care! 

[okokzach]

5 minutes ago, ugarles said:

i don't particularly care about how strictly they hew to the rules and don't care that the guys were allowed to wrestle. i tend to favor a little wiggle room and grace.

that said, the complaint is not that they weighed in late. the complaint is that they are supposed to arrive at 7:45 to check in for an 8:00 weigh-in. If they weren't there at 7:45 because they were exercising,* then even if they weighed in with their peers, they used more time to cut. That's the controversy. Feel free to dismiss it but at least meet the actual allegation head-on.

*allegedly! i don't care! 

I was responding to people on here, not to complaints by actual stakeholders with actual knowledge. The closest we've gotten to a stakeholder making a public complaint is Dresser's accusation of "hooey".

We can go on for days with "ifs", but we don't have many facts. What we do know is that Big 12 officials fully investigated the allegations and were equiped with the facts of the matter. They conferred with the NCAA and then made an impartial ruling. 

[TylerDurden]

4 hours ago, okokzach said:

I was responding to people on here, not to complaints by actual stakeholders with actual knowledge. The closest we've gotten to a stakeholder making a public complaint is Dresser's accusation of "hooey".

We can go on for days with "ifs", but we don't have many facts. What we do know is that Big 12 officials fully investigated the allegations and were equiped with the facts of the matter. They conferred with the NCAA and then made an impartial ruling. 

No, they didn't. 

They bent the rules for your favorite team and you're ok with it. Others aren't. It's that simple.

The Big 12 got this wrong. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

22 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

No, they didn't. 

They bent the rules for your favorite team and you're ok with it. Others aren't. It's that simple.

The Big 12 got this wrong. 

Supposedly a retired coach got involved and threw his weight (all 136.5 lbs of it) around?

[Gene Mills Fan]

12 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

then what is the controversy

one got out of line  after skin check and sat, maybe did something, on a bike. And allegedly one tampered with a waist band. Then matches were delayed until a decision could be made reviewing what they knew

[Hammerlock3]

3 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

one got out of line  after skin check and sat, maybe did something, on a bike. And allegedly one tampered with a waist band. Then matches were delayed until a decision could be made reviewing what they knew

alright more sympathetic to @PortaJohn 's opinion

[1032004]

 

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

 

 

HEARSAY!

[WrestlingRasta]

On 3/12/2025 at 1:21 PM, BruceyB said:

In my opinion, the rule does more harm than good, especially at a qualifying tournament where a DQ means a season is over. As long as a wrestler is on the scale and makes weight at the correct time, is it that big of a deal if he's working out instead of sitting in the weigh-in area doing nothing? It doesn't give an advantage to be cutting 10 minutes later than the current rule set, but hurts the product to DQ the wrestlers. I also think it cheapens a UNI conference title if they win due to an OKST wrestler being DQ'd on a technicality.

At the end of the day, having the best wrestlers in these tournaments is best for the sport. As long as they aren't doing anything malicious and make the weight at the correct time, let it go.

The weigh in regulations were put into place because young men died.   Having wrestlers alive is good for the sport.  When we start opening the door of, well what does this rule really matter anyway........it's a slippery slope.  

Additionally, if everyone else is following the rule, why do we not hold all of these men and young men responsible for the rule.  A title wouldn't be cheapened in any way.....they did what they were supposed to do.  Managing your weight in a manner that you are prepared to compete is in fact a function of this sport. 

[okokzach]

5 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

The weigh in regulations were put into place because young men died.   Having wrestlers alive is good for the sport.  When we start opening the door of, well what does this rule really matter anyway........it's a slippery slope.  

I forgot about the kid who died from noncompliant underwear. Scary stuff.

[H82Lose]

On 3/12/2025 at 5:57 PM, okokzach said:

According to the Big 12 it was a "miscommunication over timing". There was no official disqualification. Everything Dresser is saying is hearsay. He wasn't there and doesn't cite where his information is coming from. Rock Harrison in the broadcast even says that when he arrived, he had a lot of coaches in his ear giving their opinions and what should/shouldn't happen. Some pissed off coaches complaining isn't the end-all. The Big 12 investigated the situation, conferred with the NCAA and then made a decision. 

lol, dude stop. I get you are an OSU fan, nobody is saying they cheated. The reality of it, Jamison did not follow the rules, and they had to make a decision on whether they would DQ him or not. Let me say this, it was a big enough deal, DT called John Smith and he came up there and threw a fit. Do I think the rules are silly? Yes, but they are the rules and Jamison did not follow them. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, okokzach said:

I forgot about the kid who died from noncompliant underwear. Scary stuff.

The underwear rule is a) to keep an even playing field ;and b) because pervs had cameras hidden in gym bags to film wrestlers weighing in at Midlands (and I assume other events) for sale online.

[WrestlingRasta]

3 minutes ago, okokzach said:

I forgot about the kid who died from noncompliant underwear. Scary stuff.

A good example of why I don't visit the wrestling forums all that much.   I get my nonsense on the nonsense forum.  Have hope for a little more mature conversation in these parts. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, WrestlingRasta said:

A good example of why I don't visit the wrestling forums all that much.   I get my nonsense on the nonsense forum.  Have hope for a little more mature conversation in these parts. 

The rules may seem stupid, but administrative rules like these are generally well thought out and exist for a reason.  Yes, they may seem trivial, but they are not put in place for light and transient reasons.

[okokzach]

6 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

The underwear rule is a) to keep an even playing field ;and b) because pervs had cameras hidden in gym bags to film wrestlers weighing in at Midlands (and I assume other events) for sale online.

I'm not taking issue with the rule

[WrestlingRasta]

7 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

The rules may seem stupid, but administrative rules like these are generally well thought out and exist for a reason.  Yes, they may seem trivial, but they are not put in place for light and transient reasons.

I completely agree.  Which is why I believe every rule needs to be followed.  How 'trivial' a rule is, is usually nothing more than opinion.   And in many cases, it is an uninformed opinion (or at least one not given a lot of thought)

 

Example: covid.   When sports resumed a lot of fuss was made about some rules like not shaking hands after, or players not swapping jerseys after.   Why can they be in contact, but not take part in these?   And it is a very good question, one that should be explored rather than just cast off as stupid, without given much thought.

And the answer is (was)......I was responsible for getting athletics back up and running in my area, and this is the thought process.....    In order to get competition back on line, we had to eliminate all contacts that were not necessary to execute the competition (game, match, whatever).    And while not shaking hands after, and not exchanging jerseys after, certainly seem silly on the surface, they are in fact contacts that are not at all necessary to execute the competition, so they had to go.    Just one example.