Top 5 US Freestylers of All Time

[11986]

Dave Schultz in '84 had to beat another world champ to win his gold; not sure how many other weights at the LA Games had multiple world champs. I'm not diminishing the fact that it would have been a whole lot tougher to win with USSR etc. in the field, but he had also won his world title in the year before, in Russia, beating a Russian in the finals. 

[Irani]

1 hour ago, 11986 said:

Dave Schultz in '84 had to beat another world champ to win his gold; not sure how many other weights at the LA Games had multiple world champs. I'm not diminishing the fact that it would have been a whole lot tougher to win with USSR etc. in the field, but he had also won his world title in the year before, in Russia, beating a Russian in the finals. 

I agree that David Schultz would have been the favorite in 84, even with USSR, other soviet block countries, and Iran in the field.

[WrestlingRasta]

What Burroughs and to a large extent Snyder have done in Stars and Stripes, in the modern ‘competitive climate’..Post-Soviet, International Free Agency) carries a lot of weight for me. 
 

In the John Smith days you had a group of three or four Russians training together for the purpose of that one guy beating Smith.  
 

In the Burroughs days you have the same group of Russians training together, but they all got a shot at him in the bracket. 
 

Not to downplay anything or anyone, but these are fun talks of picking straws, and that’s a pretty big straw. 

[GrandOlm]

3 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

What Burroughs and to a large extent Snyder have done in Stars and Stripes, in the modern ‘competitive climate’..Post-Soviet, International Free Agency) carries a lot of weight for me. 
 

In the John Smith days you had a group of three or four Russians training together for the purpose of that one guy beating Smith.  
 

In the Burroughs days you have the same group of Russians training together, but they all got a shot at him in the bracket. 
 

Not to downplay anything or anyone, but these are fun talks of picking straws, and that’s a pretty big straw. 

In John Smith's era and before, it was not uncommon for Americans to view "amateur wrestling" as something like post grad or an overseas study trip. You did it for a couple years (wherever you happened to land in the Olympics cycle after college wrestling), hopefully you medaled at the Olympics and then you'd move on with your life to get a "real job". 

The economic situation was that these guys were getting nothing for wrestling. A fully paid head coaching job opens up and you're not wrestling anymore. If Smith and wrestlers of that era were given the economic security to wrestle as long as they were competitively viable like every Burroughs or Snyder can today, they wouldn't have retired at 26 and probably would have had much larger medal hauls (I think the Eastern Bloc won so much more medals in the cold war era partly because their wrestlers were professionals in all but name, like modern American wrestlers).   

Yeah there were a couple counter examples like Baumgartner or Rulon and the like. But it was bleak being an international wrestler in the US all the way to the 2000s. You were just hoping to cash in on the notoriety of the Olympics. 

[WrestlingRasta]

30 minutes ago, GrandOlm said:

In John Smith's era and before, it was not uncommon for Americans to view "amateur wrestling" as something like post grad or an overseas study trip. You did it for a couple years (wherever you happened to land in the Olympics cycle after college wrestling), hopefully you medaled at the Olympics and then you'd move on with your life to get a "real job". 

The economic situation was that these guys were getting nothing for wrestling. A fully paid head coaching job opens up and you're not wrestling anymore. If Smith and wrestlers of that era were given the economic security to wrestle as long as they were competitively viable like every Burroughs or Snyder can today, they wouldn't have retired at 26 and probably would have had much larger medal hauls (I think the Eastern Bloc won so much more medals in the cold war era partly because their wrestlers were professionals in all but name, like modern American wrestlers).   

Yeah there were a couple counter examples like Baumgartner or Rulon and the like. But it was bleak being an international wrestler in the US all the way to the 2000s. You were just hoping to cash in on the notoriety of the Olympics. 

All very valid 

[AZ_wrestling]

Burroughs 

Smith

Bruce 

Snyder 

Taylor or Dake 

It’s hard to take seriously anyone who doesn’t have Snyder on their list. The guy has made 10 world/Olympic teams while winning 9 medals including four golds and three silvers. Kemp and Shultz aren’t in the same category of success. 

[de4856]

So is it Big Bruce’s 13 World or Olympic medals, or John Smith’s perfect run? Tough call but I think 13 years is a long time to be one of the best in the world, that’s 7 more years than Smith. So I think it’s Big Bruce as our all time best. After those two I would say JB. Then it should be SnyderMan. He has 9 medals 4 of which are gold. Then it should be DT. Afterwards it could be Dake, Kemp, Dave Schultz. But I will say that a lot of wrestling we have today started with Dan Gable, so even though he only has two medals, he is a legend, and should be considered as one of our very best. 

[de4856]

So both Dan Gable, and Cael Sanderson were incredible wrestlers, both in college and internationally. But was their impact on our sport more as a coach than as a competitor? 

[mspart]

Who was the most technical FS wrestler we have had.   I would say Dave Schultz.   He did not have all the medals but was active for a very long time and was the 1996 olympic favorite at his weight.   His technique was second to none. 

mspart

[SuperBonBon]

On 3/6/2025 at 5:04 PM, WrestlingRecords.com said:

2004 Cael was dangerous. I may be biased though

If Sazhid Sazhidov made the finals in 2004 it would have been a silver olympic medal for Sanderson. 

In 2003 the judges tried hard to give Sanderson the Gold in NYC but it was too obvious that Sazhidov was that much better.

[mspart]

21 hours ago, SuperBonBon said:

If Sazhid Sazhidov made the finals in 2004 it would have been a silver olympic medal for Sanderson. 

In 2003 the judges tried hard to give Sanderson the Gold in NYC but it was too obvious that Sazhidov was that much better.

I don't disagree, but in 2004, Cael beat everyone and got the gold.   Sazjid lost to the Korean who lost to Cael.   So that says something.   I am not saying Cael should be in the conversation, just saying he beat everyone that stepped on the mat with him at that Olympics.  No one can take that away from him.  

mspart

[jchapman]

On 3/17/2025 at 10:29 PM, de4856 said:

So both Dan Gable, and Cael Sanderson were incredible wrestlers, both in college and internationally. But was their impact on our sport more as a coach than as a competitor? 

Maybe its my era, but Gable as a competitor impacted our sport dramatically, even internationally.  He was such a great coach, too.  Even had success as a coach internationally, not only with his Hawkeyes, but as Team USA coach.  

Cael as a domestic collegiate competitor is the GOAT.  Internationally he didn't have the global impact that Gable had, despite similar resumes.  As a coach, he is getting right up there with Gable, so I would have to say his impact is more as a coach than competitor, especially at an international level.

[BAC]

On 3/19/2025 at 3:08 PM, mspart said:

Who was the most technical FS wrestler we have had.   I would say Dave Schultz.   He did not have all the medals but was active for a very long time and was the 1996 olympic favorite at his weight.   His technique was second to none. 

mspart

It's hard to argue against this, though he was before my time.  Probably the best counter is Smith himself, who really revolutionized leg attacks his low single and how he integrated it with his hi-c.

Other guys who come to mind when I think of wrestlers who excelled mostly by virtue of technique, as opposed to athleticism (though everyone we're talking about here excelled in both), are Taylor and Cael. Zeke is also a popular answer to this question (won FILA's "most technical" award one year). 

[The Kid]

8 hours ago, BAC said:

It's hard to argue against this, though he was before my time.  Probably the best counter is Smith himself, who really revolutionized leg attacks his low single and how he integrated it with his hi-c.

Other guys who come to mind when I think of wrestlers who excelled mostly by virtue of technique, as opposed to athleticism (though everyone we're talking about here excelled in both), are Taylor and Cael. Zeke is also a popular answer to this question (won FILA's "most technical" award one year). 

Dake has better freestyle technique than Taylor and  Sanderson combined.