Brandon Cannon v. Joe Sealey

[Elevator]

Was suprised at how dominant Cannon was in this match.  Not sure if Sealey is not as far along as I would expect or Cannon is that good.  

[PAFAN01]

Sealey should never take bottom! 

From PS Wrestling site: He dropped a tough 10-1 bout to Brandon Cannon and the Nittany Lions trailed 10-9 at halftime.

I don't know what they watched!

? Maybe he just wasn't ready since he has not been in the lineup?

Edited Saturday at 04:45 PM by PAFAN01
added

[scorenomore]

Curious from PSU and tOSU insiders what all this means?  How does Sealy do against Kasak?  How does Cannon do against Paddy and Sasso?

we should see Cannon and Sasso this weekend so that will be answered but how about Sealy?

[scourge165]

Does this maybe suggest that Facundo is done at PSU?

That he'll be transferring this year? 

They said 7 of the top 9 157 at in the B1G...pretty sure Facundo would be in that group as well. 

[Elevator]

Maybe to keep it fair for the competitive wrestlers at top programs not in the lineup, the NCAA should keep a few NCAA tourney spots at each weight and let them wrestle unattached w no points for the team race!  Like the Russians in the Olympics.  

[nhs67]

25 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Does this maybe suggest that Facundo is done at PSU?

That he'll be transferring this year? 

They said 7 of the top 9 157 at in the B1G...pretty sure Facundo would be in that group as well. 

Facundo was in cruches the week after he lost to Kasak.

Even if he does transfer, I think a medical is going to happen.

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Facundo was in cruches the week after he lost to Kasak.

Even if he does transfer, I think a medical is going to happen.

Oh, my bad. I didn't know that. 

I still think PSU has 2-3 guys who should transfer. Duke is gonna come in there and...IMO, he's going to dog walk some kids next year while taking a RS(or maybe not, maybe Kasak takes a RS). 

Sealey looked...like a guy who needs to try and go '65. If he's cutting to '57, he should lift and try to go up. He just didn't look good. Kid is a former World Champ in the NLWC/PSU room. The OSU kid was tough and underrated and an AA contender, but Sealey had nothing. Not attempts, just trying to not be scored on. 

I've also heard Cunningham is really coming on. You have Ryder, Asher Cunningham and Henkel coming in next year. 

 

[BAC]

What I saw in Sealey was a guy with Room Ragdoll Syndrome.

Big-shot freshman comes in, and he gets torn apart every day in practice by the more experienced guys who are using him as their takedown dummy.  Can you imagine what rolling with Mesenbrink every day must do to your confidence? Probably also Kasak, Haines, Van Ness, maybe Dake.  He shoots a single, he gets scored on. Shoots a hi-C, gets scored on.  Shoots a double, gets scored on. Ties up, gets scored on. Keeps space, gets scored on.

All this stuff that used to work in high school, just doesn't work anymore, and the self-doubt creeps in. His stuff would work on 99% of the wrestling population, but he's wrestling the other 1%. 

You could see it in his wrestling.  I wasn't that he didn't want to be there, it's that he didn't believe in himself.  He'd start to shoot a shot, then sort of quit halfway, almost expecting it won't work. Tentative, low confidence, expecting to lose, looking sort of resigned to his fate.

Some guys eventually figure it out, find the stuff that works against the other 1%, persevere through the tough times, until they get to a place where they can hold their own.  That's Barr, Kasak, Haines, all with massive level-jumps from high school.  Other guys... never figure it out. 

It's too early to say for Sealey.  As of now, though, I don't think he's figured it out yet.  I'd bet a lot of money that he's getting ragdolled every day in practice.  Hope he sticks it out and finds his way to the other side.

[MNRodent]

8 minutes ago, BAC said:

What I saw in Sealey was a guy with Room Ragdoll Syndrome.

Big-shot freshman comes in, and he gets torn apart every day in practice by the more experienced guys who are using him as their takedown dummy.  Can you imagine what rolling with Mesenbrink every day must do to your confidence? Probably also Kasak, Haines, Van Ness, maybe Dake.  He shoots a single, he gets scored on. Shoots a hi-C, gets scored on.  Shoots a double, gets scored on. Ties up, gets scored on. Keeps space, gets scored on.

All this stuff that used to work in high school, just doesn't work anymore, and the self-doubt creeps in. His stuff would work on 99% of the wrestling population, but he's wrestling the other 1%. 

You could see it in his wrestling.  I wasn't that he didn't want to be there, it's that he didn't believe in himself.  He'd start to shoot a shot, then sort of quit halfway, almost expecting it won't work. Tentative, low confidence, expecting to lose, looking sort of resigned to his fate.

Some guys eventually figure it out, find the stuff that works against the other 1%, persevere through the tough times, until they get to a place where they can hold their own.  That's Barr, Kasak, Haines, all with massive level-jumps from high school.  Other guys... never figure it out. 

It's too early to say for Sealey.  As of now, though, I don't think he's figured it out yet.  I'd bet a lot of money that he's getting ragdolled every day in practice.  Hope he sticks it out and finds his way to the other side.

This is a good point.  Contrary to some people's opinion, wrestling the toughest possible competition in practice all the time, every day is not best way to improve for most people.  I think the key to success is finding the ratio of partners you can have success against to partners that don't let you get away with sloppy technique and keep you in your place.

 

[1032004]

31 minutes ago, BAC said:

What I saw in Sealey was a guy with Room Ragdoll Syndrome.

Big-shot freshman comes in, and he gets torn apart every day in practice by the more experienced guys who are using him as their takedown dummy.  Can you imagine what rolling with Mesenbrink every day must do to your confidence? Probably also Kasak, Haines, Van Ness, maybe Dake.  He shoots a single, he gets scored on. Shoots a hi-C, gets scored on.  Shoots a double, gets scored on. Ties up, gets scored on. Keeps space, gets scored on.

All this stuff that used to work in high school, just doesn't work anymore, and the self-doubt creeps in. His stuff would work on 99% of the wrestling population, but he's wrestling the other 1%. 

You could see it in his wrestling.  I wasn't that he didn't want to be there, it's that he didn't believe in himself.  He'd start to shoot a shot, then sort of quit halfway, almost expecting it won't work. Tentative, low confidence, expecting to lose, looking sort of resigned to his fate.

Some guys eventually figure it out, find the stuff that works against the other 1%, persevere through the tough times, until they get to a place where they can hold their own.  That's Barr, Kasak, Haines, all with massive level-jumps from high school.  Other guys... never figure it out. 

It's too early to say for Sealey.  As of now, though, I don't think he's figured it out yet.  I'd bet a lot of money that he's getting ragdolled every day in practice.  Hope he sticks it out and finds his way to the other side.

I think he’s going to be really good.  But I also think (and thought) that he needs to transfer if he wants to start before he’s like a senior

[Kov88]

Haven’t watched cannon wrestle this year but he looked tough, not sure if it was because it was Sealys first shot starting or if he can do this consistently

[WildTurk]

People want immediate high end results for these top recruits.   Maybe some take a little longer to develop?   Fans are too quick to write these guys off and assume they are transferring. I guess that's the age we live in. 

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, BAC said:

What I saw in Sealey was a guy with Room Ragdoll Syndrome.

Big-shot freshman comes in, and he gets torn apart every day in practice by the more experienced guys who are using him as their takedown dummy.  Can you imagine what rolling with Mesenbrink every day must do to your confidence? Probably also Kasak, Haines, Van Ness, maybe Dake.  He shoots a single, he gets scored on. Shoots a hi-C, gets scored on.  Shoots a double, gets scored on. Ties up, gets scored on. Keeps space, gets scored on.

All this stuff that used to work in high school, just doesn't work anymore, and the self-doubt creeps in. His stuff would work on 99% of the wrestling population, but he's wrestling the other 1%. 

You could see it in his wrestling.  I wasn't that he didn't want to be there, it's that he didn't believe in himself.  He'd start to shoot a shot, then sort of quit halfway, almost expecting it won't work. Tentative, low confidence, expecting to lose, looking sort of resigned to his fate.

Some guys eventually figure it out, find the stuff that works against the other 1%, persevere through the tough times, until they get to a place where they can hold their own.  That's Barr, Kasak, Haines, all with massive level-jumps from high school.  Other guys... never figure it out. 

It's too early to say for Sealey.  As of now, though, I don't think he's figured it out yet.  I'd bet a lot of money that he's getting ragdolled every day in practice.  Hope he sticks it out and finds his way to the other side.

You don't think Cael and staff would help tailor his training in a more productive manner? There are other guys on the roster that he could go with where I'd assume he'd find reasonable success, and at least have enough self-belief that he has the ability to score on a relatively unproven Brandon Cannon. Cael has also spoken highly of Sealey's progress multiple times when asked throughout the season.. I think if anything Cael would have responded with something along the lines of "you know, he's tough and talented, but we have a lot of really accomplished guys in the room and he's adjusting to a new level of wrestling." We're talking about the best coaching staff in the country.. I don't think they're letting Sealey be fodder at the cost of his development.

[MPhillips]

3 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I don't think they're letting Sealey be fodder at the cost of his development.

Then there's this...

"The senior was eager to get his hands on Barr and the rest of the freshman class. It became a yearly right of passage for Starocci to see how long he could pound on the new guys before they gave up.

Barr was willing to go the distance and then some. Starocci called him “a lunatic.”

“I wanna see how long these guys can go for until they break,” Starocci said. “It’s always that one guy when you wrestle, ‘Alright bro, I’ve gotta go.’ So who is going to be that guy? And I remember we were going for like five straight hours and he just kept coming back to the middle.”

[juniorvarsity]

1 hour ago, MPhillips said:

Then there's this...

"The senior was eager to get his hands on Barr and the rest of the freshman class. It became a yearly right of passage for Starocci to see how long he could pound on the new guys before they gave up.

Barr was willing to go the distance and then some. Starocci called him “a lunatic.”

“I wanna see how long these guys can go for until they break,” Starocci said. “It’s always that one guy when you wrestle, ‘Alright bro, I’ve gotta go.’ So who is going to be that guy? And I remember we were going for like five straight hours and he just kept coming back to the middle.”

Where are these quotes from?

[wrestle87]

9 hours ago, BAC said:

What I saw in Sealey was a guy with Room Ragdoll Syndrome.

Big-shot freshman comes in, and he gets torn apart every day in practice by the more experienced guys who are using him as their takedown dummy.  Can you imagine what rolling with Mesenbrink every day must do to your confidence? Probably also Kasak, Haines, Van Ness, maybe Dake.  He shoots a single, he gets scored on. Shoots a hi-C, gets scored on.  Shoots a double, gets scored on. Ties up, gets scored on. Keeps space, gets scored on.

All this stuff that used to work in high school, just doesn't work anymore, and the self-doubt creeps in. His stuff would work on 99% of the wrestling population, but he's wrestling the other 1%. 

You could see it in his wrestling.  I wasn't that he didn't want to be there, it's that he didn't believe in himself.  He'd start to shoot a shot, then sort of quit halfway, almost expecting it won't work. Tentative, low confidence, expecting to lose, looking sort of resigned to his fate.

Some guys eventually figure it out, find the stuff that works against the other 1%, persevere through the tough times, until they get to a place where they can hold their own.  That's Barr, Kasak, Haines, all with massive level-jumps from high school.  Other guys... never figure it out. 

It's too early to say for Sealey.  As of now, though, I don't think he's figured it out yet.  I'd bet a lot of money that he's getting ragdolled every day in practice.  Hope he sticks it out and finds his way to the other side.

This syndrome is why transfers always take a step down their first year, and why PSU grad transfers have such a low success rate at PSU.  Nobody talks about it, but every new wrestler to that room looks like a whipped puppy their first year.  Happened to taylor and bo, I specifically remember looking at their first matches being underwhelmed based on all the hype around them.  Happened to Hall in his first dual against  Iowa.  

Yeah, kid got ridden like a dog, but he’s a RS, and being resilient to getting scrubbed is definitely a part of progressing in the room.  Go listen to any of the guys who win titles there.  The process to an NCAA title is being the ragdoll for a whole roster of olympic medalists.  If you can have olympic gold medalists just embarrass you all day and you still love wrestling, you’re going to be good when it matters.  But the dismantling and reassembly of the ego is a difficult process.

Edited Sunday at 08:27 AM by wrestle87

[1032004]

5 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

Where are these quotes from?

I’m not sure who wrote the paragraph but the Starocci quotes were from him being interviewed

 

 

[1032004]

3 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

This syndrome is why transfers always take a step down their first year, and why PSU grad transfers have such a low success rate at PSU.  Nobody talks about it, but every new wrestler to that room looks like a whipped puppy their first year.  Happened to taylor and bo, I specifically remember looking at their first matches being underwhelmed based on all the hype around them.  Happened to Hall in his first dual against  Iowa.  

Yeah, kid got ridden like a dog, but he’s a RS, and being resilient to getting scrubbed is definitely a part of progressing in the room.  Go listen to any of the guys who win titles there.  The process to an NCAA title is being the ragdoll for a whole roster of olympic medalists.  If you can have olympic gold medalists just embarrass you all day and you still love wrestling, you’re going to be good when it matters.  But the dismantling and reassembly of the ego is a difficult process.

How can you say this impacts their first “year” but then bring up Mark Hall who won NCAA’s as a true freshman? 

[Pinnacle]

C'mon guys. This is right of passage stuff. Everyone takes their lumps when they arrive, then dishes it out when they get the upper hand. The coaches just keep the order so things don't go too far .

I have no idea what is going on with Sealy. I know he has excelled in the past, and if he is healthy he has a chance to excel again. That staff is phenomenal at developing their guys, but at the end of the day it will be up to him how he handles the journey. 

[Elevator]

15 hours ago, BAC said:

What I saw in Sealey was a guy with Room Ragdoll Syndrome.

Big-shot freshman comes in, and he gets torn apart every day in practice by the more experienced guys who are using him as their takedown dummy.  Can you imagine what rolling with Mesenbrink every day must do to your confidence? Probably also Kasak, Haines, Van Ness, maybe Dake.  He shoots a single, he gets scored on. Shoots a hi-C, gets scored on.  Shoots a double, gets scored on. Ties up, gets scored on. Keeps space, gets scored on.

All this stuff that used to work in high school, just doesn't work anymore, and the self-doubt creeps in. His stuff would work on 99% of the wrestling population, but he's wrestling the other 1%. 

You could see it in his wrestling.  I wasn't that he didn't want to be there, it's that he didn't believe in himself.  He'd start to shoot a shot, then sort of quit halfway, almost expecting it won't work. Tentative, low confidence, expecting to lose, looking sort of resigned to his fate.

Some guys eventually figure it out, find the stuff that works against the other 1%, persevere through the tough times, until they get to a place where they can hold their own.  That's Barr, Kasak, Haines, all with massive level-jumps from high school.  Other guys... never figure it out. 

It's too early to say for Sealey.  As of now, though, I don't think he's figured it out yet.  I'd bet a lot of money that he's getting ragdolled every day in practice.  Hope he sticks it out and finds his way to the other side.

You may be right, but PSU coaches probably mix up partners and training methods like use of play wrestling to ensure everyone is progressing.  Guessing, but too big/quick a cut might be the bigger factor.  Also credit to Cannon who might be the biggest reason for the score.

[MPhillips]

9 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

Where are these quotes from?

FLO transcripts from an interview...

[Hammerlock3]

11 hours ago, MPhillips said:

 

And I remember we were going for like five straight hours and he just kept coming back to the middle.”

I'm not buying this.

[MPhillips]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I'm not buying this.

You don't believe C-Star?

[Hammerlock3]

34 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

You don't believe C-Star?

he's in the category of people who if they say a number you have to take the square root to get the real one

Edited Sunday at 04:45 PM by Hammerlock3

[jackwebster]

54 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

You don't believe C-Star?

Nobody is wrestling 5 straight hours.