Bow and Arrow

[LJB]

5 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said:

You know what I mean.

Like having both boots in and running a power half against someone pinned to the mat with no way to turn.

These are moves designed to inflict punishment.

I don’t view a bow and arrow in the same category as boots and a power…

I thinks boots and a power half is nothing more than a dik move…

I have seen many injuries from boots and a power half…

I have seen many stoppages from boots and a power half…

I wince every time I see boots and a power half…

still never once thought it should be illegal and damn sure never thought to make a thread to properly show my outrage…

but, I see things differently… me and mine have done alright…

[Mike Parrish]

Just now, LJB said:

I don’t view a bow and arrow in the same category as boots and a power…

I thinks boots and a power half is nothing more than a dik move…

I have seen many injuries from boots and a power half…

I have seen many stoppages from boots and a power half…

I wince every time I see boots and a power half…

still never once thought it should be illegal and damn sure never thought to make a thread to properly show my outrage…

but, I see things differently… me and mine have done alright…

1. I didn't make this thread.

2. I'm not outraged.

3. I'm talking about athlete safety, particularly at the middle and high school level.

4. Chill.

[LJB]

7 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said:

1. I didn't make this thread.

2. I'm not outraged.

3. I'm talking about athlete safety, particularly at the middle and high school level.

4. Chill.

Uhm…

duh?

I know this is gonna come as a shock to you Mike, but, not every thing is about you brother…

[Mike Parrish]

Just now, LJB said:

Uhm…

duh?

I know this is gonna come as a shock to you Mike, but, not every thing is about you brother…

Dude,

You replied to my post with that diatribe without mentioning anyone else.
Who the ***duck duck goose** else should I be thinking that's aimed at unless you specify?

[LJB]

5 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said:

Dude,

You replied to my post with that diatribe without mentioning anyone else.
Who the ***duck duck goose** else should I be thinking that's aimed at unless you specify?

 

1. I didn't make this thread.

2. I'm not outraged.

3. I'm talking about athlete safety, particularly at the middle and high school level.

4. Chill.
 

 

 

we don’t need to keep doing this…

[Mike Parrish]

How the hell did you screw up the quote tags that badly?

 

 

[LJB]

As per mike… you have missed the point…

it’s fine… 

I’m already moving on…

[98lberEating2Lunches]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

I've never seen someone this personally offended at an idea that you slightly change the rules in Wrestling. 

I have.  Not long ago there was a wrestling rule dealing with hair length / unnatural hair.  I read several claim protecting wrestlers from injury was the reason for the rule's existence. It definitely got changed due to people becoming personally offended.

Mind you, l've seen many injuries during wrestling matches but never one due to hair style.  But to be fair, I've also never seen a bow and arrow result in an injury and nevertheless believe it's more likely to result in an injury than hair style.

[BAC]

I’m surprised to see so much support for a rule change. What injury has taken place that would justify rules that have worked for decades? Is pain-avoidance really reason enough to abolish a move, even where injury risk is low and it has been part of the sport for countless years without incident?

I disagree it is a “punishment move.” If that is all it is, it would be stalling. I also disagree it works only if your opponent succumbs to the pain. Like a power half, an effective bow and arrow is about leverage and technique. The pain is a little extra encouragement, but better wrestlers can resist that. The move works if done properly because, pain aside, they have no choice.

True, if done poorly it can seem like your are just torquing on the opponent, but the novel likely won’t work unless the other guy is a fish. A bow and arrow is infrequently seen because few do it well. Eric Guerrero was very effective with it internationally, Zain and Max are more recent effective practitioners, and I think it is very unfair to say they are somehow using brutish tactics. If other wrestlers were as good with it as they are, they’d use it too.

All that said, it is always fair to discuss this at the margins — eg what angle merits a stoppage, when you move the ankle after posting it, etc. We can always refine and improve. Rule differences between HS and NCAA, and UWW for that matter, always merit reexamination. But to those advocating abolition because it is “cruel” or a “punishment” and nothing else, I’m sorry, but I couldn’t disagree more. 

[Fadzaev2]

You can call it the bow and arrow.....I call it a bent leg turk....part of the turk series...inside leg turk, outside leg turk, folded leg turk and the BENT LEG TURK as discussed by the great one Dave Schultz and demonstrated by one of his greatest protege's, David Lee.  Have a couple of great videos in my library with Schultzie teaching leg wrestling ......some of my favorite videos.  He turned legs into hip tips, bars and more.  The Master and loved and respected by the Russians.  Fadz

https://fb.watch/hX9_t17Vn_/

Edited January 9, 2023 by Fadzaev2

[Formally140]

Few things.

No it shouldn’t be made legal in high school.
 

College is adults wrestling do it’s hard for me to see the need to make it illegal. Same way handfighting till fist fights in high school practices would be stupid, problematic and create problems.. but doing it in college has a purpose and it’s grown men training.

Not every athlete is the same. Most wrestle best calm. Some wrestle best ticked off. Same with techniques and who they work for. So bringing up one that youve coached as your example of why you’re right seems… eh. 
 

And I’d prefer refs make the judgement calls to make sure newer athletes aren’t ran out of the sport by guys trying to showboat. 
 

Most athletes that depend on the move tend to be bully style guys anyway. Which means they’ll eventually hit a wall on that working consistently anyway

[LJB]

It makes me giggle… the bow and arrow torture rack scare!!!!!

that is a mild before practice stretch compared to a gut from even a mid Greco guy…

seems much ado about nothing…

as per…

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Fadzaev2 said:

You can call it the bow and arrow.....I call it a bent leg turk....

yeah I never understood where the "bow & arrow" name came from

[GreatWhiteNorth]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

It makes me giggle… the bow and arrow torture rack scare!!!!!

that is a mild before practice stretch compared to a gut from even a mid Greco guy…

seems much ado about nothing…

as per…

Nope. Don't be a dummy.

A tough bow & arrow isn't a "mild practice stretch" ... you're just posting like an idiot on purpose here.

[Fadzaev2]

9 hours ago, ionel said:

yeah I never understood where the "bow & arrow" name came from

Oh, I can see where it came from ....it doesn't sound like the name of a move used in college or international wrestling, and this is a college forum...just like I kind of chuckle at, and even get in friendly arguments with some pretty "high level" coaches over the term "chicken wing".....I tell them "that is what you get at KFC or Buffalo Wild Wings".....to me they are called armbars.  One of those coaches, and a great coach, terms the arm across the back an armbar....I call that a hammerlock.  Argument closed....lol.

[Fadzaev2]

18 minutes ago, Fadzaev2 said:

Oh, I can see where it came from ....it doesn't sound like the name of a move used in college or international wrestling, and this is a college forum...just like I kind of chuckle at, and even get in friendly arguments with some pretty "high level" coaches over the term "chicken wing".....I tell them "that is what you get at KFC or Buffalo Wild Wings".....to me they are called armbars.  One of those coaches, and a great coach, terms the arm across the back an armbar....I call that a hammerlock.  Argument closed....lol.

WOW......this time, it timed out in the middle of my edit...HONEST....lol, but it did let me cut so I could paste at least, and thus proving that I was in the middle of my EDIT.....lol   so here it is.....And as a sidenote, I do have very old books in my library that I acquired from a media specialist where I used to work.....from the 50's/60's and I know they used the term chickenwing then....but that was then and this is now....this is the modern era!!!  Besides, I like to teach to the highest level.

[LJB]

10 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Nope. Don't be a dummy.

A tough bow & arrow isn't a "mild practice stretch" ... you're just posting like an idiot on purpose here.

it is hyperbole for effect...

but...

to be 100% honest..

closer to the truth than not....

you don't have to get it...

that is not a requirement for me...

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Fadzaev2 said:

Oh, I can see where it came from ....it doesn't sound like the name of a move used in college or international wrestling, and this is a college forum...just like I kind of chuckle at, and even get in friendly arguments with some pretty "high level" coaches over the term "chicken wing".....I tell them "that is what you get at KFC or Buffalo Wild Wings".....to me they are called armbars.  One of those coaches, and a great coach, terms the arm across the back an armbar....I call that a hammerlock.  Argument closed....lol.

We had something in HS we called a bow & arrow wasn't this.  Yes kindve like that chicken wing thing.  Also makes me roll eyes every time Flo guys mention a "blair ride."  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

We had something in HS we called a bow & arrow wasn't this.  Yes kindve like that chicken wing thing.  Also makes me roll eyes every time Flo guys mention a "blair ride."  

What is your terminology for what they call the "Blair ride?"

I think NFHS materials also call it that.

[ionel]

23 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

What is your terminology for what they call the "Blair ride?"

I think NFHS materials also call it that.

IDK: when did Blair invent it?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

IDK: when did Blair invent it?

Not sure they invented it, but have certainly popularized it.

https://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Sports/Wrestling/Wrestling Officials Education/Illustrations2015-16.pdf

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Not sure they invented it, but have certainly popularized it.

https://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Sports/Wrestling/Wrestling Officials Education/Illustrations2015-16.pdf

Lee Roy Smith used this all the time (it pre-dated him) never heard them call it "Blair."

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

23 minutes ago, ionel said:

Lee Roy Smith used this all the time (it pre-dated him) never heard them call it "Blair."

Maybe the NFHS should start calling it the "Pre-dating Lee Roy Smith ride"

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Maybe the NFHS should start calling it the "Pre-dating Lee Roy Smith ride"

It had a name, been a long time, prob no reason to change it.

[Scouts Honor]

14 hours ago, Fadzaev2 said:

You can call it the bow and arrow.....I call it a bent leg turk....part of the turk series...inside leg turk, outside leg turk, folded leg turk and the BENT LEG TURK as discussed by the great one Dave Schultz and demonstrated by one of his greatest protege's, David Lee.  Have a couple of great videos in my library with Schultzie teaching leg wrestling ......some of my favorite videos.  He turned legs into hip tips, bars and more.  The Master and loved and respected by the Russians.  Fadz

https://fb.watch/hX9_t17Vn_/

if dave schultz did it... you can rest assured, its a punishment move!! lol

jk