KOT vs Haines

[BruceyB]

What a match. Did not disappoint whatsoever. Low scoring but man both guys were super active in the hand fight and looking to score, especially in the second and third. 

I was shocked at how much bigger Levi looked than Keegan. It looked like a 165 wrestling a 174 which I didn't expect, as Askren has often commented on how Keegan is plenty big enough for 174.

I certainly don't feel any more confident going into their next match. But that was a treat of two amazing wrestlers going after it.

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

What a match. Did not disappoint whatsoever. Low scoring but man both guys were super active in the hand fight and looking to score, especially in the second and third. 

I was shocked at how much bigger Levi looked than Keegan. It looked like a 165 wrestling a 174 which I didn't expect, as Askren has often commented on how Keegan is plenty big enough for 174.

I certainly don't feel any more confident going into their next match. But that was a treat of two amazing wrestlers going after it.

Keegan isn't and never really was cut... more of a baby faced assassin.  He carries his weight different, but don't mistake that for a lack of power.. 

Haines is very lean and always has been.

[BruceyB]

Just now, nhs67 said:

Keegan isn't and never really was cut... more of a baby faced assassin.  He carries his weight different, but don't mistake that for a lack of power.. 

Haines is very lean and always has been.

I'm not questioning Keegan's power necessarily. I just thought that standing next to each other, Haines looked noticeably bigger. I didn't think this the last two years with David Carr who I feel like has a similar build to Haines.

[Scouts Honor]

i thought haines looked bigger at the non olympic team trials

[1032004]

I’ll be curious to hear Askren’s take on the call.  I thought they made the right call but I feel like Askren tends to lean towards more leeway for actually awarding takedowns, so curious if he thinks Haines could’ve had a takedown there.

[Nittanychris]

12 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I’ll be curious to hear Askren’s take on the call.  I thought they made the right call but I feel like Askren tends to lean towards more leeway for actually awarding takedowns, so curious if he thinks Haines could’ve had a takedown there.

You think Askren may side with Haines on the TD? If you’ve listened to him talk about his guys enough, I think that’s unlikely. Either way it was really close.

[1032004]

12 minutes ago, Nittanychris said:

You think Askren may side with Haines on the TD? If you’ve listened to him talk about his guys enough, I think that’s unlikely. Either way it was really close.

I think he’s generally a straight shooter and doesn’t usually let his bias get in the way of opinions on referee calls after the fact.  

[jmoney]

1 hour ago, Nittanychris said:

You think Askren may side with Haines on the TD? If you’ve listened to him talk about his guys enough, I think that’s unlikely. Either way it was really close.

I wonder what the rule is if you're tangled like a pretzel, you have the leg, the other guy has your arm pulled and the other guy kicks over and wrap 2 boots in for a second while on the mat. It felt like no control to a neutral viewer who doesn't know criteria. Slow match but wow they saved some explosiveness for OT. O'Toole looks small but wow his technique is solid!

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, jmoney said:

I wonder what the rule is if you're tangled like a pretzel, you have the leg, the other guy has your arm pulled and the other guy kicks over and wrap 2 boots in for a second while on the mat. It felt like no control to a neutral viewer who doesn't know criteria. Slow match but wow they saved some explosiveness for OT. O'Toole looks small but wow his technique is solid!

Lots of psu homers on minnows page complaining fwiw.  

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Lots of psu homers on minnows page complaining fwiw.  

its worth nothing

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

its worth nothing

But there is still plenty of them.  

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

But there is still plenty of them.  

normally i'd say "there is quality in quantity" (branch rickey i think), but in this case it might be the opposite. 

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

normally i'd say "there is quality in quantity" (branch rickey i think), but in this case it might be the opposite. 

Good times.  I gotta be off to bed soon.   I started the movie Gettysburg after the dual.  Damn this movie is long lol.    Pickets charge coming up.  No spoilers lol 

Edited yesterday at 04:53 AM by Caveira

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, jmoney said:

I wonder what the rule is if you're tangled like a pretzel, you have the leg, the other guy has your arm pulled and the other guy kicks over and wrap 2 boots in for a second while on the mat. It felt like no control to a neutral viewer who doesn't know criteria. Slow match but wow they saved some explosiveness for OT. O'Toole looks small but wow his technique is solid!

I would argue he didn't have KOT's arm pulled as much as KOT was grabbing around his neck with his right arm while his left was around the leg so he could push the head away while pulling the leg in.. and then Haines put the leg in to prevent himself from sliding off. It was close either way, but I didn't feel that KOT ever stopped improving his position despite the leg coming in and slowing his improvement. Obviously I was rooting for Keegan, but I also want calls to be correct, and in the moment I was afraid they were going to call a premature TD for Haines because I wanted the position to play out. I also wish they would have waited to call the takedown until Keegan had it confirmed beyond a doubt and given Levi a chance to scramble (I think the TD was eminent, but would have preferred the situation played out fully).

If leg in position happened with Haines starting on top, I think most people would say that Keegan was in a better position for a reversal than Haines was from maintaining control.. Because he really didn't have any control in that position, it just resembled being on top, despite not having control.

[1032004]

6 hours ago, Caveira said:

Lots of psu homers on minnows page complaining fwiw.  

I took a peek at BWI or whatever they’re calling it these days and I’d say about 2/3 thought Haines had a TD.  One guy even said he thought he had it twice lol.

I definitely don’t think Haines had a TD.  I could see an argument that the TD call for O’Toole was a bit premature but he likely has a more obvious TD in a few seconds after it was called.

[Nittanychris]

As a PSU fan here, I think Haines was just shy of a TD, though incredibly close. I also think that the KOT TD was premature as he never cleared his head. He probably gets that eventually, though.

All that said, it was a sensational match by two of the best college wrestlers in the nation. IMO, it’s a complete toss up moving forward. If they wrestled 100x, each guy would win 50.

[Pinnacle]

56 minutes ago, Nittanychris said:

As a PSU fan here, I think Haines was just shy of a TD, though incredibly close. I also think that the KOT TD was premature as he never cleared his head. He probably gets that eventually, though.

All that said, it was a sensational match by two of the best college wrestlers in the nation. IMO, it’s a complete toss up moving forward. If they wrestled 100x, each guy would win 50.

 

Spot on. 

I actually thought when Haines started to break KOT's grip he would be able to get around for the TD. Haines is a great wrestler and was in a superior position in that instant and KOT turned it all in his favor, so gotta give him the credit he deserves. 

[H82Lose]

It was the right call, we will see this match up again hopefully because it was awesome. 

[jeffrideal]

What streaming service was this on? 

[BruceyB]

2 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

 

Spot on. 

I actually thought when Haines started to break KOT's grip he would be able to get around for the TD. Haines is a great wrestler and was in a superior position in that instant and KOT turned it all in his favor, so gotta give him the credit he deserves. 

Ah I forgot to mention this in my above post. I thought 100% when KOT's grip on the leg broke that the match was over. I couldn't believe that he was able to recover and gain the advantage from there. He was stretched out, left with one hand on the leg and turned it into a favorable scramble.. It was honestly remarkable that he was able to score from that position. 

[BruceyB]

2 minutes ago, jeffrideal said:

What streaming service was this on? 

Rokfin

[Wrestleknownothing]

17 minutes ago, jeffrideal said:

What streaming service was this on? 

It started on Rokfin, but due to their technical difficulties it was mostly on their youtube channel (free). I think they have since pulled it from there, presumably to put it back behind a paywall.

[OMW]

I'm a PSUer and at no time thought that Haines had criteria for a TD on that.

 

[1032004]

18 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It started on Rokfin, but due to their technical difficulties it was mostly on their youtube channel (free). I think they have since pulled it from there, presumably to put it back behind a paywall.

I knew one of these dudes in India wouldn’t let us down.  IANAL but considering this was broadcast live on YouTube, not sure if Rokfin can still claim it as proprietary?

 

 

[Idaho]

Penn State fans since 2011 have been so blinded by success, that there is no way that their guy could possibly lose. Any close/controversial call should go their direction, because THEY ARE, PENN STATE.