At the Debate Tonight

[PortaJohn]

6 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Is Ukraine close to winning?  I think it’s like Trump says, he’s ready for someone to negotiate, realistically. 

No Ukraine is not close to winning.  They probably have a less than 10% chance of winning unless NATO intervened and then their chances would skyrocket to 100%.  The Russian military is dogshit.  Yes, Trump is correct in saying this will only continue with more deaths with no end in sight.  But, the nuclear threat is exaggerated 

[Offthemat]

I don’t think Russia's military has ever been described as good, but large.  And their missile delivery systems unstoppable. 

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

No Ukraine is not close to winning.  They probably have a less than 10% chance of winning unless NATO intervened and then their chances would skyrocket to 100%.  The Russian military is dogshit.  Yes, Trump is correct in saying this will only continue with more deaths with no end in sight.  But, the nuclear threat is exaggerated 

On what timescale will Ukraine not win? Let's say the current conflict ends in a ceasefire. Ukraine and the international community will never accept Russia annexing huge parts of Ukraine.  Ukrainians living within the occupied territory will carry out attacks on Russia within that territory and possibly in Russia itself, supported by Ukrainian intelligence agencies. It will be no different than the U.S. "winning" the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, only to eventually realize the futility of trying to occupy the territory.  

Putin is 71 now.  Do we really think that 10-15 years from now, whoever replaces him will care about continuing to occupy Ukraine?

[headshuck]

No crowd.  Three people at the short podium, one at the tall podium. 

Hillary must be wondering why she didn’t get a short podium.

[jross]

7 hours ago, Offthemat said:

The pollster said the ‘undecideds’ are the low information voters.  

Kamala didn’t give any real details about her plans, repeated the media’s lies, and twisted Trump’s positions, and low information voters will buy it. Even the fact-checkers were biased. All Trump had to do was talk about what he got done last time, his policies, and his vision for new cities.  

We should not allow another deep state candidate take office. It’s one thing for a politician to lie, but it’s a whole different level when a group of influencers all push the same lies right in our faces.

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

It’s one thing for a politician to lie, but it’s a whole different level when a group of influencers all push the same lies right in our faces.

Couldn’t agree more 

[red viking]

I didn't watch it (never do) but I heard she completely punked him and made him look like the idiot and unhinged liar that he is. 

[jross]

17 minutes ago, red viking said:

I didn't watch it (never do) but I heard she completely punked him and made him look like the idiot and unhinged liar that he is. 

It depends on whether you're stuck in a bubble.  I can't remember the exact question, and honestly, I don’t want to rewatch it. But I counted Kamala telling five lies in a row as attacks instead of actually answering the question.  No one really got the upper hand, and nobody ‘punked’ anyone.

It was more like "they said to wear sunglasses at night to save electricity" and "it’s perfectly fine for dogs to drive cars" except in the established lies like "he called bad people as fine people."  It's lies that anyone can fact check on their own... but she said it and the moderators didn't fact check it.  Then the moderators fact checked and called some things lies on Trump that we can see is true with our own eyes.  It was disgusting.  CNN did a much better job moderating.

Kamala attacked Trump all night and then said "See who he is... all he does is attack and divide."  Kamala was prepared.  They were both repulsive and the event was a scary representation of our leadership.

***duck** us all.

[Gus]

31 minutes ago, jross said:

It depends on whether you're stuck in a bubble.  I can't remember the exact question, and honestly, I don’t want to rewatch it. But I counted Kamala telling five lies in a row as attacks instead of actually answering the question.  No one really got the upper hand, and nobody ‘punked’ anyone.

It was more like "they said to wear sunglasses at night to save electricity" and "it’s perfectly fine for dogs to drive cars" except in the established lies like "he called bad people as fine people."  It's lies that anyone can fact check on their own... but she said it and the moderators didn't fact check it.  Then the moderators fact checked and called some things lies on Trump that we can see is true with our own eyes.  It was disgusting.  CNN did a much better job moderating.

Kamala attacked Trump all night and then said "See who he is... all he does is attack and divide."  Kamala was prepared.  They were both repulsive and the event was a scary representation of our leadership.

***duck** us all.

She was prepared because she clearly had the questions for the debate ahead of time. I would not be one bit surprised if her team is the one that wrote the questions and gave them to ABC! Trump had to debate against her and the two moderators. It was completely ridiculous. 

[red viking]

2 minutes ago, Gus said:

She was prepared because she clearly had the questions for the debate ahead of time. I would not be one bit surprised if her team is the one that wrote the questions and gave them to ABC! Trump had to debate against her and the two moderators. It was completely ridiculous. 

Another right-wing 100% unfounded whack job conspiracy theory. They're a dime a dozen. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Debates are performances.

Biden gave the worst performance in the history of debates, and he had to drop out of the election as a result.

The first time round Trump rode to the presidency on the back of his debate performances. His greatest skill was to put everyone around him on tilt by becoming the personification and embodiment of an internet troll. It proved a highly effective strategy. And it was all performance.

This time the expectation of many was that Harris was not up to the task and her performance would prove it ("Why is Harris afraid to debate?" "Isn't her nervous laugh weird" "Why does she need to prepare so much? It will hurt her.") But the reality is that she significantly outperformed Trump last night. As the old saw goes, Trump's failure to prepare was preparing to fail. His over confidence combined with his inability to avoid every trap set for him (all of which were predictable - let's talk about crowd size) led to a pretty unhinged performance last night (I heard it on TV). Harris was very successful putting Trump on tilt and appearing to be the only adult on stage. Even her "isn't he cute" condescending smirk pose was effective.

Trump was so on tilt that he failed to put Harris on the spot for not answering any difficult questions. Never mind that never in the history of debates has any candidate, ever answered a difficult question, Trump's one job was to press her on Biden's policies and he failed miserably to do so. At the very end he made a weak attempt to bring it back to that, but by then the damage was done.

Now, what does it mean? It is hard for me, or anyone that posts on this forum, to say because we are so entrenched in our positions. I cannot project to the mind of the undecided voter, who is almost certain to decide this election. But if I am a Trump advisor this morning all I am thinking about is damage control. Nowhere near as bad, but kind of like Biden advisors were after the last debate.

[jross]

Yes, Harris was very successful putting Trump on tilt but there were no adults on stage.

[headshuck]

Performance for sure.

Many believe that Kamala had those questions for weeks and was well prepared in her responses.

Put her on the spot in front of an assortment of reporters answering difficult questions for an hour, and you’d see a totally different person.

[red viking]

2 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Performance for sure.

Many believe that Kamala had those questions for weeks and was well prepared in her responses.

Put her on the spot in front of an assortment of reporters answering difficult questions for an hour, and you’d see a totally different person.

OMG. Do the 100% unfounded right-wing whack job conspiracy theories EVER END? 

[headshuck]

Ask the 50 former intelligence officials.

[Danny Deck]

Which questions do you think couldn't have been anticipated by either campaign? Scanning them, I don't see any that I wouldn't think a competent campaign wouldn't have prepared for even without having the questions provided.

He lists them all here: https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/trumps-biggest-problem-at-the-debate-was-trump/

[ThreePointTakedown]

23 hours ago, mspart said:

Doubtful.   Will she be asked anything of substance?   Will she answer with anything of substance?  Trump just has to be quiet while she rambles and everyone will see she is a train wreck worse than Biden.   Unfortunately, we have no good choices in this thing.   Of the two, I'd rather see Trump win both the debate and election.    But I think it will be close in both.

mspart

This didn't age well.

[ThreePointTakedown]

12 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

It's comical how voters who already have their minds made  up lie to themselves that debates somehow sway the "other" voters

I think that's a bit too cynical. Some voters will be swayed one way or the other through the debates. I'll bet they were at the last one. So this one too. How many, is the question. Probably far fewer than will be in actuality. But that is the power of hope. 'I was convinced by this person and I'm not an idiot. Surely others will see the light and support my candidate too.' That 'logic' swings both ways and often not for the best reasons. 

Flawed thinkers, we are. 

[wrestlingguy]

12 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

I appreciate you not bringing up the polling!  Very sensitive to this topic as a former poli sci graduate.  I will have to disagree with you on her being a quality candidate.  I don't believe she's good at all.  She struggled to get in running for the AG position and she got booted out of the DNC primary faster than the 32 seed at NCAA's.  I personally believe Trump's winning this and I blame the DNC or Biden for not stepping aside earlier and having a primary.  They had some decent contenders on the bench

I honestly don't know if it matters. It is astounding how many people out there are asked why they are voting for Kamala and the best thing they can come up with is they want to see a woman president. It kills me that that ignorant radical commie could be the first woman president. Literally any other candidate, outside of Bernie, in my opinion would have been a better pick for Americans.

[wrestlingguy]

12 hours ago, headshuck said:

I must say my wife only got vocal during the abortion topic. I thought Trumps position was clear but Kamala’s comments (accurate or not) were personal to her.

Never mind both Kamala and the moderator were dead wrong when they told Trump that there isn't a state that supports full term abortion. There are actually 9 plus DC but go on telling lies.

[ThreePointTakedown]

12 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

I appreciate you not bringing up the polling!  Very sensitive to this topic as a former poli sci graduate.  I will have to disagree with you on her being a quality candidate.  I don't believe she's good at all.  She struggled to get in running for the AG position and she got booted out of the DNC primary faster than the 32 seed at NCAA's.  I personally believe Trump's winning this and I blame the DNC or Biden for not stepping aside earlier and having a primary.  They had some decent contenders on the bench

I don't know about that. Keep in mind 45 ran for president before '16 and we all had forgotten it by then. Getting a tv show, being a birther, and having a lot more racists scared of brown people allowed 45 to tap into that energy. Along with a FBI director that blatantly violated their own protocols just two weeks before an election didn't hurt either. What I'm saying is that because the field was so crowded and it was her first national campaign. She shouldn't be judged on that performance alone. Biden didn't do so hot when he first entered. Only after SC did he get the momentum. 

If you go back to watch KH grill witnesses in the senate hearings. Its pretty compelling stuff. Granted they are well researched and done for the cameras but those are questions and positions that are hard to walk back. I feel they represent her intentions and motivations as to the problems we face and solutions to fix them. 

[wrestlingguy]

2 hours ago, red viking said:

Another right-wing 100% unfounded whack job conspiracy theory. They're a dime a dozen. 

you admitted you didn't watch so go ahead and sit this one out.

[Jason Bryant]

Performance for sure.

Many believe that Kamala had those questions for weeks and was well prepared in her responses.

Put her on the spot in front of an assortment of reporters answering difficult questions for an hour, and you’d see a totally different person.

But would you see a different 45?

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, wrestlingguy said:

Never mind both Kamala and the moderator were dead wrong when they told Trump that there isn't a state that supports full term abortion. There are actually 9 plus DC but go on telling lies.

That is not what the Linsey Davis corrected him on. Trump claimed Harris supports killing a baby after it is born. Infanticide is illegal in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

The quote was, "There is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it is born."

[WrestlingRasta]

Pretty entertaining seeing MAGA all up in arms this morning about thought of a presidential candidate telling lies.  Obviously MAGA will not stand for or support anyone who lies

The best damage control they can come up with today is “yes he is horrible but they are more horribler!!  She lied!” and “nuclear war nuclear war!!!”

Of course, when that is all that Lord Leader will say over and over again, what else do they have to parrot?  
 

Behind the scenes though: “Jesus Christ, look at what we got ourselves into”

Watch for the fever to start to break a little heavier now…