Post Olympics thoughts

[alliseeisgold]

First I didn't notice anymore palpable excitement or feel watching it from regular worlds. I was told the Olympics was different ? I couldn't tell. If anything it looked more watered down and worse then worlds without Russia. 

Second -  0 golds is not an abject failure due to simply no golds. (Without Russia). It's not fair to criticize coaches or competitors based solely on wins and losses as it is the manner in which they win or lose. Example Spencer Lee and brands. That's a GREAT effort in a loss and silver medal. Another example is Serbia basketball vs USA. 

It is an abject failure tho in the case of mason parris. In the case of Aaron brooks. And Kyle dake tho takatani may have just been on a heater. When you get praised beyond belief for winning you DESERVE the likewise when you don't win. Insert cael Sanderson. Insert Bill zadick. Insert USA training system. 

When we praise the rtc system based on results it must be re examined and thought if this is the best method when results turn to losses instead of wins (without Russia).

3rd - imagine if Spencer Lee went full throttle into freestyle after winning junior worlds instead of going to folk ? How many senior worlds would he have ?...Gilman looked like the little engine that could. Played above his talent. Lee looks like a 5 star. 

4th thinking USA could get a medal at every weight and multiple golds was completely over the top. Especially for guys like brooks who deserved to lose to Valencia and hasnt dominated opponents internationally. And a guy like parris who is not near as consistent as gwiz was. The best years have been when we have guarded optimism with a chip on the shoulder and something to prove to the world. The lack of Russia and recent success may have taken it away. Came in on a high horse. 

5th greco gets a bad wrap. Watching some of those middleweights was sheer athletic excellence on display. The Bulgarian who won gold in greco has insane hips. Way more action then I've ever seen in greco. Such a shame USA sucks in this sport. That Bulgarian may be one of the best pfp wrestlers overall basing this on one match and no other background info.

6th We know Snyder isn't winning gold. Book it. He's far more average then elite. Bad move turning on his boy dlagnov. 

7th cael is a GREAT folk coach. Free - overrated. 

The lack of tactical awareness and training displayed by brooks and cael after it happened to him with Gilman will be one for the record books and should be one of the first things brought up when discussing cael Sanderson for the eternity of time. It's on his record. 

No idea what zadick does. The system feels broken. 

 

Edited August 9 by alliseeisgold

[TylerDurden]

Delete your account.

[1032004]

Crap are the Olympics over already?

[PortaJohn]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Crap are the Olympics over already?

Yeah, every wrestler in 65 and 97kg forfeited out of the Olympics

[Wrestleknownothing]

16 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

First I didn't notice anymore palpable excitement or feel watching it from regular worlds. I was told the Olympics was different ? I couldn't tell. If anything it looked more watered down and worse then worlds without Russia. 

Second -  0 golds is not an abject failure due to simply no golds. (Without Russia). It's not fair to criticize coaches or competitors based solely on wins and losses as it is the manner in which they win or lose. Example Spencer Lee and brands. That's a GREAT effort in a loss and silver medal. Another example is Serbia basketball vs USA. 

It is an abject failure tho in the case of mason parris. In the case of Aaron brooks. And Kyle dake tho takatani may have just been on a heater. When you get praised beyond belief for winning you DESERVE the likewise when you don't win. Insert cael Sanderson. Insert Bill zadick. Insert USA training system. 

When we praise the rtc system based on results it must be re examined and thought if this is the best method when results turn to losses instead of wins (without Russia).

3rd - imagine if Spencer Lee went full throttle into freestyle after winning junior worlds instead of going to folk ? How many senior worlds would he have ?...Gilman looked like the little engine that could. Played above his talent. Lee looks like a 5 star. 

4th thinking USA could get a medal at every weight and multiple golds was completely over the top. Especially for guys like brooks who deserved to lose to Valencia and hasnt dominated opponents internationally. And a guy like parris who is not near as consistent as gwiz was. The best years have been when we have guarded optimism with a chip on the shoulder and something to prove to the world. The lack of Russia and recent success may have taken it away. Came in on a high horse. 

5th greco gets a bad wrap. Watching some of those middleweights was sheer athletic excellence on display. The Bulgarian who won gold in greco has insane hips. Way more action then I've ever seen in greco. Such a shame USA sucks in this sport. That Bulgarian may be one of the best pfp wrestlers overall basing this on one match and no other background info.

6th We know Snyder isn't winning gold. Book it. He's far more average then elite. Bad move turning on his boy dlagnov. 

7th cael is a GREAT folk coach. Free - overrated. 

The lack of tactical awareness and training displayed by brooks and cael after it happened to him with Gilman will be one for the record books and should be one of the first things brought up when discussing cael Sanderson for the eternity of time. It's on his record. 

No idea what zadick does. The system feels broken. 

 

All you see is gold. All you type is garbage.

Hell, you can't even get the timing right.

[Caveira]

11 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

All you see is gold. All you type is garbage.

Hell, you can't even get the timing right.

I mean.   Sir Cael can be criticized.  The hype for the nlwc pre Olympics on here was pretty high.   They definitely underperformed so far as a group.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I mean.   Sir Cael can be criticized.  The hype for the nlwc pre Olympics on here was pretty high.   They definitely underperformed so far as a group.  

I agree on all points and yours is a reasonable take. But the OP is just hot take. Trying to out-Stephen A Stephen A

[MidniteToka]

38 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

First I didn't notice anymore palpable excitement or feel watching it from regular worlds. I was told the Olympics was different ? I couldn't tell. If anything it looked more watered down and worse then worlds without Russia. 

Second -  0 golds is not an abject failure due to simply no golds. (Without Russia). It's not fair to criticize coaches or competitors based solely on wins and losses as it is the manner in which they win or lose. Example Spencer Lee and brands. That's a GREAT effort in a loss and silver medal. Another example is Serbia basketball vs USA. 

It is an abject failure tho in the case of mason parris. In the case of Aaron brooks. And Kyle dake tho takatani may have just been on a heater. When you get praised beyond belief for winning you DESERVE the likewise when you don't win. Insert cael Sanderson. Insert Bill zadick. Insert USA training system. 

When we praise the rtc system based on results it must be re examined and thought if this is the best method when results turn to losses instead of wins (without Russia).

3rd - imagine if Spencer Lee went full throttle into freestyle after winning junior worlds instead of going to folk ? How many senior worlds would he have ?...Gilman looked like the little engine that could. Played above his talent. Lee looks like a 5 star. 

4th thinking USA could get a medal at every weight and multiple golds was completely over the top. Especially for guys like brooks who deserved to lose to Valencia and hasnt dominated opponents internationally. And a guy like parris who is not near as consistent as gwiz was. The best years have been when we have guarded optimism with a chip on the shoulder and something to prove to the world. The lack of Russia and recent success may have taken it away. Came in on a high horse. 

5th greco gets a bad wrap. Watching some of those middleweights was sheer athletic excellence on display. The Bulgarian who won gold in greco has insane hips. Way more action then I've ever seen in greco. Such a shame USA sucks in this sport. That Bulgarian may be one of the best pfp wrestlers overall basing this on one match and no other background info.

6th We know Snyder isn't winning gold. Book it. He's far more average then elite. Bad move turning on his boy dlagnov. 

7th cael is a GREAT folk coach. Free - overrated. 

The lack of tactical awareness and training displayed by brooks and cael after it happened to him with Gilman will be one for the record books and should be one of the first things brought up when discussing cael Sanderson for the eternity of time. It's on his record. 

No idea what zadick does. The system feels broken. 

 

This is 100% Monday morning quarterbacking.  3 or 4 small differences total in the MFS matches would result in a big difference in US results.  That's typical of high level athletic competitions.  So far we've only had one weight where we weren't in the hunt for a gold.  The sky is not falling. 

[Eagle26]

Seriously…post Olympics?? It ain’t even over yet. If Zain and Snyder win gold you are going to have some serious crow to eat! Even if they don’t, it’s so annoying how people give such little credit to wrestlers outside of the US. The rest of the world is pretty good too. We did not wrestle our best today and we have work to do, but bronze medals are still hard to come by

[Rassling]

Sorry I’m not buying it. No way this guy feels this way about our wrestlers. They are to be commended for making it this far and for representing our country no matter the results. Perhaps it’s just the ultimate troll post to get a reaction. 

[wrestle87]

The US team laid a bunch of eggs these past two days, plain and simple.  Maybe resting on laurels, definitely a bunch of brain farts, and generally just quitting in the big moments.  Maybe they all hung out with Noah Lyles and got the ‘vid, that’s the only way I can justify how spotty this was compared to what these athletes have shown they are capable of.  

At best spencer had a terrible game plan for higuchi, but that’s being generous, he really did nothing all match.

Dake wrestled his old “chest wraps or bust” 2014-15 style, and completely forgot what a sprawl was.  Parris basically gave up, and brooks stalled for the first time in his life, costing him a good medal.

At least Miles Amine remembered how to go after it.  

It’s impressive to win a medal, but Dake should be in the finals, brooks should be a champ, spencer should be a champ.  Parris was getting bounced either way, so can’t do anything about that I guess, but you can see he just stopped trying after he was down 5-3.  

They all know it and you can see it on their faces.

[wrestle87]

40 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I mean.   Sir Cael can be criticized.  The hype for the nlwc pre Olympics on here was pretty high.   They definitely underperformed so far as a group.  

Yeah, whatever they were working on…it just didn’t work.  It was the first time in a LONG time I can remember NLWC guys just look that off.

Then watching spencer pull out the Iowa folkstyle playbook, even tougher to see.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, alliseeisgold said:

First I didn't notice anymore palpable excitement or feel watching it from regular worlds. I was told the Olympics was different ? I couldn't tell. If anything it looked more watered down and worse then worlds without Russia.

Russia. Russia. Russia. 
 

Way too much being made about the absence of Russia. Russia is Sidakov and a bunch of returning 5ths. Not much more. 

[Eagle26]

6 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

The US team laid a bunch of eggs these past two days, plain and simple.  Maybe resting on laurels, definitely a bunch of brain farts, and generally just quitting in the big moments.  Maybe they all hung out with Noah Lyles and got the ‘vid, that’s the only way I can justify how spotty this was compared to what these athletes have shown they are capable of.  

At best spencer had a terrible game plan for higuchi, but that’s being generous, he really did nothing all match.

Dake wrestled his old “chest wraps or bust” 2014-15 style, and completely forgot what a sprawl was.  Parris basically gave up, and brooks stalled for the first time in his life, costing him a good medal.

At least Miles Amine remembered how to go after it.  

It’s impressive to win a medal, but Dake should be in the finals, brooks should be a champ, spencer should be a champ.  Parris was getting bounced either way, so can’t do anything about that I guess, but you can see he just stopped trying after he was down 5-3.  

They all know it and you can see it on their faces.

Disagree about Spencer’s game plan… I think it was great. He needed to slow down Higuchi and he did it exceptionally. He simply lost the one key scramble to a fantastic wrestler. 
 

Now Parris with all those straight on shots, and Dake not lowering his stance and allowing him in on his legs were both bad match tactics. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

At best spencer had a terrible game plan for higuchi, but that’s being generous, he really did nothing all match

I would have liked to have seen Spencer win, but i honestly thought higuchi was better. 
I would have liked Spencer to attack more, for sure. 
Regardless, i thought they had a good game plan. Controlled center. Was in line to get a possible passivity point. Also eliminated higuchis two greatest weapons: his dingle and his par terre. 
 

it came down to one scramble position that was winnable for either, but higuchi came out on top. 

im most concerned with USA lack of par terre offense outside of Lee and occasionally a fake gut wrench. 
 

 

[The Kid]

10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Russia. Russia. Russia. 
 

Way too much being made about the absence of Russia. Russia is Sidakov and a bunch of returning 5ths. Not much more. 

I think the US wrestlers thought their path to gold would be easier without Russia.  

Maybe , just maybe, they became over confident. 

[Caveira]

Criticism is natural.   Good and bad.  

what happens in the nfl if a receiver runs the wrong route late in the game?   Or some Other random mental error occurred….. 

what happens to the head coach of the English national soccer team if (when  ) they don’t win euros or the World Cup?

At the highest level you have the highest expectations.  The rhetoric on their “message boards” (soccer : nfl : mlb etc) are way more toxic than what’s said in here.    This is the Olympics.   Expectations are high.   Some Peeps called for 6 golds this year.
 

Do some Hawkeye fans criticize the coaches when they don’t win ncaa(s)…. I think you know the answer to that.  

[alliseeisgold]

6 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Seriously…post Olympics?? It ain’t even over yet. If Zain and Snyder win gold you are going to have some serious crow to eat! Even if they don’t, it’s so annoying how people give such little credit to wrestlers outside of the US. The rest of the world is pretty good too. We did not wrestle our best today and we have work to do, but bronze medals are still hard to come by

Kyle "bronze" medal Snyder is not getting gold. Snyder is solid not spectacular and he is always in a bronze medal match. 

Zain ? At 65 ? ......I see him losing a "tough hard fought battle" as is the status quo with him ....likely at the end of the last period with a lead. Blowing the lead with a lack of innate fluidity in certain positions and practiced awareness of how to close out matches from nittany lion wrestling club.

[billyhoyle]

17 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

Kyle "bronze" medal Snyder is not getting gold. Snyder is solid not spectacular and he is always in a bronze medal match. 

Zain ? At 65 ? ......I see him losing a "tough hard fought battle" as is the status quo with him ....likely at the end of the last period with a lead. Blowing the lead with a lack of innate fluidity in certain positions and practiced awareness of how to close out matches from nittany lion wrestling club.

You never know! Snyder could do it. Don't give up on these guys!  

[Hammerlock3]

did anyone read all that?

[Hammerlock3]

9 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

You never know! Snyder could do it. Don't give up on these guys!  

i think zain can do it too.

[Formally140]

There are "valid" criticisms.. some.. but.. timing and phrasing is wrong.

Several things can true at once.
 

The wrestling world is so tiny and overly interconnected to the point making evaluations that aren't going out of their way to be nice get people up in arms throwing tizzy fits..

And it can also be true that 

1. We underperformed and our match tactics need work. And we need to be more willing to evaluate the wrestling we are seeing, not getting mad at a match opinion because a wrestler was nice to someone at a camp. 

2. Cael isn't perfect (leaving aside the poaching the last few years) and is a great coach..

3. A "bad" Olympics is 3/4 medaling.. so far.. which is sooo much better than the mid 2000s...

all can be true at once

More importantly, these Olympics have had a weird vibe 

 

[billyhoyle]

12 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i think zain can do it too.

Yeah, I think he can as well. 

[Formally140]

8 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

First I didn't notice anymore palpable excitement or feel watching it from regular worlds. I was told the Olympics was different ? I couldn't tell. If anything it looked more watered down and worse then worlds without Russia. 

Second -  0 golds is not an abject failure due to simply no golds. (Without Russia). It's not fair to criticize coaches or competitors based solely on wins and losses as it is the manner in which they win or lose. Example Spencer Lee and brands. That's a GREAT effort in a loss and silver medal. Another example is Serbia basketball vs USA. 

It is an abject failure tho in the case of mason parris. In the case of Aaron brooks. And Kyle dake tho takatani may have just been on a heater. When you get praised beyond belief for winning you DESERVE the likewise when you don't win. Insert cael Sanderson. Insert Bill zadick. Insert USA training system. 

When we praise the rtc system based on results it must be re examined and thought if this is the best method when results turn to losses instead of wins (without Russia).

3rd - imagine if Spencer Lee went full throttle into freestyle after winning junior worlds instead of going to folk ? How many senior worlds would he have ?...Gilman looked like the little engine that could. Played above his talent. Lee looks like a 5 star. 

4th thinking USA could get a medal at every weight and multiple golds was completely over the top. Especially for guys like brooks who deserved to lose to Valencia and hasnt dominated opponents internationally. And a guy like parris who is not near as consistent as gwiz was. The best years have been when we have guarded optimism with a chip on the shoulder and something to prove to the world. The lack of Russia and recent success may have taken it away. Came in on a high horse. 

5th greco gets a bad wrap. Watching some of those middleweights was sheer athletic excellence on display. The Bulgarian who won gold in greco has insane hips. Way more action then I've ever seen in greco. Such a shame USA sucks in this sport. That Bulgarian may be one of the best pfp wrestlers overall basing this on one match and no other background info.

6th We know Snyder isn't winning gold. Book it. He's far more average then elite. Bad move turning on his boy dlagnov. 

7th cael is a GREAT folk coach. Free - overrated. 

The lack of tactical awareness and training displayed by brooks and cael after it happened to him with Gilman will be one for the record books and should be one of the first things brought up when discussing cael Sanderson for the eternity of time. It's on his record. 

No idea what zadick does. The system feels broken. 

 

What state do you live in

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

Kyle "bronze" medal Snyder is not getting gold. Snyder is solid not spectacular and he is always in a bronze medal match. 

Zain ? At 65 ? ......I see him losing a "tough hard fought battle" as is the status quo with him ....likely at the end of the last period with a lead. Blowing the lead with a lack of innate fluidity in certain positions and practiced awareness of how to close out matches from nittany lion wrestling club.

I'm glad I don't have to wake up and watch tomorrow.  It's nice to get the results early.