Olympics: men boxing cs women?

[WrestlingRasta]

6 minutes ago, jross said:

If I am an elite wrestler that is banned because of an easily disproved conspiracy, you are damn right that I'm going to address it.  And it seems common sense to me that anyone with the gusto to become an elite would do the same.

No bias in any direction changes the evidence pointing to an XY boxer competing in the Olympics.  

 

A) she wasn’t banned.  She was DQ’d from A tournament, and qualified and eligible for the Olympics.  

B) what evidence is there pointing to XY chromosome? There’s a DQ from a tournament headed by the most corrupt sport in the Olympic movement, with no evidence only a statement provided, a statement that has changed, or at best evolved, over time.  This is your evidence you are wanting to stand on, with everything else that is documented and presented? 

[BobDole]

14 minutes ago, jross said:

If I am an elite wrestler that is banned because of an easily disproved conspiracy, you are damn right that I'm going to address it.  And it seems common sense to me that anyone with the gusto to become an elite would do the same.

No bias in any direction changes the evidence pointing to an XY boxer competing in the Olympics against XX women.

 

How do we know the other boxers aren't XY also? There very well could be XY producing a normal level of testosterone for an XX female. 

Would it surprise you if multiple female athletes in the Olympics are deemed to have XY chromosomes? 

[jross]

1 minute ago, BobDole said:

How do we know the other boxers aren't XY also? They very well could be XY producing a normal level of testosterone for an XX female. 

Would it surprise you if multiple female athletes in the Olympics are deemed to have XY chromosomes? 

Not a surprise at all!  The occurrence is a tiny percentage applied against numerous athletes... more will be XY than folks are discussing.  It is likely higher than the norm rate if we consider the performance advantage that XY offers and we're looking at a small pool of 'elites' within the female competition.  

[ThreePointTakedown]

On 8/1/2024 at 3:01 PM, jross said:

Put the test results aside for a moment.

Should athletes with male characteristics (specifically XY chromosomes, high testosterone) and/or transgender athletes be allowed to compete in women’s sport?

Yes. 

What would be the process that would need to be put in place when petty parents, athletes, coaches, or pundits challenge the chemistry or features of an athlete? How to determine the standards? 

[uncle bernard]

6 minutes ago, BobDole said:

How do we know the other boxers aren't XY also? There very well could be XY producing a normal level of testosterone for an XX female. 

Would it surprise you if multiple female athletes in the Olympics are deemed to have XY chromosomes? 

They actually studied this back in the 90s with widespread genetic testing of olympic athletes. Female olympians were 100x more likely to have a Y chromosome than the regular population.

 

 

[uncle bernard]

Ultimately, this is an attempt to radically change what we understand to be a woman. You can be born a woman with female genitalia, uterus, etc..., live your whole life a woman, but suddenly you're not a woman because you have a genetic disorder.

Yes, it provides an advantage, but these are not "men." The advantage is not even close to that of a man over a woman. These women would get destroyed by men.

So is it "fair" that they have high testosterone? No, but it's also not fair that Tyreek Hill runs a 4.2 40 because of his genetics. No matter how hard I work, I will never be able to run that fast. That's just sports.

[Caveira]

Maybe the Algerian is or isn’t.

Maybe the right topic is should legit males born as males ever be able to compete as females.  It is occurring more and more in everyday high school / college / other sports.    

should this guy have been allowed to cave in his female opponents skull in the ufc?

 

[WrestlingRasta]

24 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Maybe the Algerian is or isn’t.

Maybe the right topic is should legit males born as males ever be able to compete as females.  It is occurring more and more in everyday high school / college / other sports.    

should this guy have been allowed to cave in his female opponents skull in the ufc?

 

That is definitely a conversation.  A big one that is had often, in a lot of places.  
 

It’s just not the subject of this particular conversation.  

[WrestlingRasta]

For what it’s worth, the Italian has apologized to the boxer that punched her in the face, and said if she saw her she would ‘embrace her’. 

[Caveira]

14 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

That is definitely a conversation.  A big one that is had often, in a lot of places.  
 

It’s just not the subject of this particular conversation.  

But it could be.  Should that guy have been able to fight women in the ufc?

[WrestlingRasta]

If you’d like to start another topic on that particular case, I’ll be happy to go over and comment. 

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

For what it’s worth, the Italian has apologized to the boxer that punched her in the face, and said if she saw her she would ‘embrace her’. 

The article I read said she apologized for not shaking hands. 

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

For what it’s worth, the Italian has apologized to the boxer that punched her in the face, and said if she saw her she would ‘embrace her’. 

Yeah, this was rage bate. It's a crime to transition where she's from. This was presented as a Fallen Fox(which was a LONG time ago) and it wasn't anything like that.

The way this was just presented as a trans-athlete was...obnoxious. 

[1032004]

6 hours ago, mspart said:

It has everything to do with trans people.   In WA, if you are a male and say you identify as a female, you are trans.  A boy just won the girls 400m run at the state championships.   By WA definition, he is trans.  

Being from Algeria, I would have to agree that this boxer is not trans.   She would be dead if she was.  

mspart

I think he meant “this” as in this thread

[Le duke]

You can say you’re whatever you want, but when you buy shoes you’re going to have to make a decision.  Men’s sizes, or women’s. 

Or, made-to-order custom shoes based on your foot’s unique dimensions, that have no gender tag.

I have two pairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scourge165]

On 7/31/2024 at 6:39 AM, 1032004 said:

Yeah looks to me like they were actually born women.

Accusing actual women in the Olympics of being men was of course a predictable next step when we’ve got thousands of Americans that actually believe Michelle Obama is a man.

Oh...you sweet naive soul.

We've got millions of people who are dumb enough to believe that one.

[WrestlingRasta]

It’s been fun watching the goalpost move throughout this story, from trans to proven XY; to not proven XY but just look at her;  to she should go out on her own to get a test to show that all the other times throughout the last seven years she’s been allowed to compete (in IBA) are legit; to but what about this other….  
 

But I’m glad we can put all the silly screaming to rest now, and go back to enjoying the Olympics, and these athletes who put their whole lives into this and get on that stage, allowing us to drag them through the mud all across the world because we like to blindly follow SM hysteria while we sit on the couch and watch them perform!!  

 

[WrestlingRasta]

11 hours ago, Offthemat said:

The article I read said she apologized for not shaking hands. 

In an interview with Italian daily Gazetta dello Sport published on Friday, Carini said she did not mean to stir up such heated controversy.

"All this controversy certainly made me sad, and I also felt sorry for my opponent, she had nothing to do with it and like me was only here to fight," she said.

"It was not intentional, in fact I apologize to her and to everyone. I was angry, because my Games had already gone up in smoke. I have nothing against Khelif and on the contrary if I happened to meet her again I would give her a hug."

[jross]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

In an interview with Italian daily Gazetta dello Sport published on Friday, Carini said she did not mean to stir up such heated controversy.

"All this controversy certainly made me sad, and I also felt sorry for my opponent, she had nothing to do with it and like me was only here to fight," she said.

"It was not intentional, in fact I apologize to her and to everyone. I was angry, because my Games had already gone up in smoke. I have nothing against Khelif and on the contrary if I happened to meet her again I would give her a hug."

Is this supposed to mean something?  The articles read as if she is sorry for what her actions have brought to the boxer, who complies with the Olympic qualifications, however she still thinks the boxer is XY...  It's sort of nice but doesn't change anything.

[jross]

4 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

It’s been fun watching the goalpost move throughout this story, from trans to proven XY; to not proven XY but just look at her;  to she should go out on her own to get a test to show that all the other times throughout the last seven years she’s been allowed to compete (in IBA) are legit; to but what about this other….  

But I’m glad we can put all the silly screaming to rest now, and go back to enjoying the Olympics, and these athletes who put their whole lives into this and get on that stage, allowing us to drag them through the mud all across the world because we like to blindly follow SM hysteria while we sit on the couch and watch them perform!!  

This thread has a lot of projection that most people believe or care that the boxer could be tran. The first 'trans' projection is UB talking about Algeria law.  My comments consistently state it is inappropriate for XY to fight XX, and that the evidence is clear that this boxer is XY due to objective, rational reasons. 

• Objective
  • Science data indicates a man punches 160% harder than a woman
  • The IBA stated that test revealed she has XY
  • The boxer has not disputed the claim, demanded transparency, etc. 
• Subjective
  • Looks like a man 
  • Competitors say she has the power of a man

WKN is a logical person and says this is horrifically bad takes.  "Horrific" is an emotionally negative word.  I have said nothing emotional.  Perhaps WKN is also projecting that I think or care if this boxer is trans, have something against woman, etc.  I don't.  A single point of evidence is not enough but the collective evidence of XY is there.

As my first comment stated, it is unfortunate for the competitors but XYs should not be competing against XXs in boxing.

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

This thread has a lot of projection that most people believe or care that the boxer could be tran. The first 'trans' projection is UB talking about Algeria law.  My comments consistently state it is inappropriate for XY to fight XX, and that the evidence is clear that this boxer is XY due to objective, rational reasons. 

• Objective
  • Science data indicates a man punches 160% harder than a woman
  • The IBA stated that test revealed she has XY
  • The boxer has not disputed the claim, demanded transparency, etc. 
• Subjective
  • Looks like a man 
  • Competitors say she has the power of a man

WKN is a logical person and says this is horrifically bad takes.  "Horrific" is an emotionally negative word.  I have said nothing emotional.  Perhaps WKN is also projecting that I think or care if this boxer is trans, have something against woman, etc.  I don't.  A single point of evidence is not enough but the collective evidence of XY is there.

As my first comment stated, it is unfortunate for the competitors but XYs should not be competing against XXs in boxing.

You are correct in your last sentence, and I completely agree with you. Fortunately in this particular case, that is not happening. Now we can all relax and enjoy the Games!

[jross]

This article lays out the known and unknown nicely.  

https://www.today.com/health/news/imane-khelif-boxer-gender-eligibility-controversy-rcna164854

[WrestlingRasta]

Appreciate the article, however there is nothing in there that hasn’t already been discussed in this thread.  Not sure what you’re trying to hold on to.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, jross said:

This thread has a lot of projection that most people believe or care that the boxer could be tran. The first 'trans' projection is UB talking about Algeria law.  My comments consistently state it is inappropriate for XY to fight XX, and that the evidence is clear that this boxer is XY due to objective, rational reasons. 

• Objective
  • Science data indicates a man punches 160% harder than a woman
  • The IBA stated that test revealed she has XY
  • The boxer has not disputed the claim, demanded transparency, etc. 
• Subjective
  • Looks like a man 
  • Competitors say she has the power of a man

WKN is a logical person and says this is horrifically bad takes.  "Horrific" is an emotionally negative word.  I have said nothing emotional.  Perhaps WKN is also projecting that I think or care if this boxer is trans, have something against woman, etc.  I don't.  A single point of evidence is not enough but the collective evidence of XY is there.

As my first comment stated, it is unfortunate for the competitors but XYs should not be competing against XXs in boxing.

I chuckle every time you use the word evidence incorrectly. 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, jross said:

 

• • The IBA stated that test revealed she has XY

“The IBA” has not stated this.  An individual did.