Big 12 wrestling in trouble?

[Scouts Honor]

i can see it now.. the forum goes crazy..

MAYBE THOSE SCHOOLS WILL GET WRESTLING
no.. .not happening...

but what might happen is wrestling takes a hit... b/c it is now devalued

might benefit... if more money comes in.. 

[Idaho]

Cue FauxJimmy thread...

[11986]

what I get from that is ACC football is in trouble

[wjd]

Most Big 12 schools don't actually have wrestling. The conference is made up of affiliates for wrestling only. I don't know that this would impact things much.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Idaho said:

Cue FauxJimmy thread...

I was wondering too: is @Scouts Honor ok, did Jimmy spam his account, is their a doctor on the board that can check on him?  Get well Scouts! 

[fishbane]

32 minutes ago, wjd said:

Most Big 12 schools don't actually have wrestling. The conference is made up of affiliates for wrestling only. I don't know that this would impact things much.

Private equity could be a huge problem for anything that doesn't generate a profit.  Private equity gets paid based on increasing the value of the investment.  If you cut off a part that costs more than it generates it would seem that the overall value has increased. Some pretty historic programs still reside in the Big 12 - OSU, ISU, ASU, and WVU.  Losing  even one would be the biggest program drop in years if not ever.  No school that has won a team title at the D1 level has ever dropped the program.

[nhs67]

34 minutes ago, ionel said:

I was wondering too: is @Scouts Honor ok, did Jimmy spam his account, is their a doctor on the board that can check on him?  Get well Scouts! 

I have have a community college doctorate.  I think he is simply just drunk.  That is all.

[boconnell]

16 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

i can see it now.. the forum goes crazy..

MAYBE THOSE SCHOOLS WILL GET WRESTLING
no.. .not happening...

but what might happen is wrestling takes a hit... b/c it is now devalued

might benefit... if more money comes in.. 

How would this devalue wrestling?  Is wrestling currently of value to these schools?  If it's not of current financial value, then how would the schools getting more money make it of less value?  The only current Big 12 schools with wrestling are OSU, ISU, ASU, and WV.  Do you really think a bunch of extra football money and extra focus on football puts wrestling in trouble at those schools?  

I honestly don't even get what point you were trying to make?  It reads like you saw a cool tweet and wanted to loop it into wrestling.  

[wrestlingfanforlife]

Notre Dame has made very clear their intent to remain an independent, especially given that the football playoff is now a 12 team format… headline feels like clickbait.

Edited July 12 by wrestlingfanforlife

[Chemo]

i can see it now.. the forum goes crazy..
MAYBE THOSE SCHOOLS WILL GET WRESTLING
no.. .not happening...
but what might happen is wrestling takes a hit... b/c it is now devalued
might benefit... if more money comes in.. 

Look at the bio. This is a parody account.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wrestej]

I feel that collegiate sports are in general coming to an end.  Now that the cat has been let out of the bag as far as paying for athletes it will probably take the same route other business takes.  Business isn’t worried about anything besides money.

[Scouts Honor]

it wasn't too far off

https://www.si.com/college/westvirginia/football/clemson-florida-state-flirting-with-the-big-12

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, Wrestej said:

I feel that collegiate sports are in general coming to an end.  Now that the cat has been let out of the bag as far as paying for athletes it will probably take the same route other business takes.  Business isn’t worried about anything besides money.

How would this make business different than what college athletics has been for over a decade?

[Wrestej]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

How would this make business different than what college athletics has been for over a decade?

Before they were under the mask of amateurs affiliated or going to specific universities and competing against others of the same ilk. No need for the illusion anymore.  They are paid athletes for hire.  More than likely in a span of about 10 years will lose all connection with universities and be an entity all on their own.  And just like any business anything that doesn’t produce dollars will get cut out.  Which is the vast majority of the other sports being played.  Hope I’m wrong but business is business.

[boconnell]

6 minutes ago, Wrestej said:

Before they were under the mask of amateurs affiliated or going to specific universities and competing against others of the same ilk. No need for the illusion anymore.  They are paid athletes for hire.  More than likely in a span of about 10 years will lose all connection with universities and be an entity all on their own.  And just like any business anything that doesn’t produce dollars will get cut out.  Which is the vast majority of the other sports being played.  Hope I’m wrong but business is business.

I know it will change how they get paid.

I meant how is being a business that cuts anything that doesn't produce be any different than how athletic departments have been operating for a long time?

[Wrestej]

2 hours ago, boconnell said:

I know it will change how they get paid.

I meant how is being a business that cuts anything that doesn't produce be any different than how athletic departments have been operating for a long time?

The way I understand it is the only money makers are football and basketball.  I’m sure there are a couple exceptions at different schools but you’re talking about one offs.  All other sport will be cut.  Like I said before, hope I’m wrong.

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, Wrestej said:

The way I understand it is the only money makers are football and basketball.  I’m sure there are a couple exceptions at different schools but you’re talking about one offs.  All other sport will be cut.  Like I said before, hope I’m wrong.

Sports losing money are already being cut.  That's why programs in non-revenue sports have to grow an endowment.  It's been a while since non-revenue sports just got to leech money from athletic programs.  The change you are describing already happened.

[Wrestej]

12 hours ago, boconnell said:

Sports losing money are already being cut.  That's why programs in non-revenue sports have to grow an endowment.  It's been a while since non-revenue sports just got to leech money from athletic programs.  The change you are describing already happened.

I guess I’m not explaining well.  There will be no more NCAA.  They will not have to be or will be affiliated with a university.  They will be an out in the open minor league system or maybe a new business venture to challenge current professional sport.  Once the money is gone from football and basketball (the big revenue sports) athletic departments in universities will go away.  They will have nothing to offset the losses.  Maybe a few places would have alumni willing to give endowments for certain sports but nowhere near enough to make a viable conference let alone conferences.  What do you think maybe 6-10 schools could come up with enough for wrestling.  That is not going to be sustainable.  Same with most of, if not all, of the other sports.  They will also more than likely go the private business route and try to make money or go the way of the do do bird.  They have exposed to the world what everyone already knew it’s “big business” and it is out in the open now.  No hiding all the BS.  So look out because get ready for all the vultures to start swooping in, because if there is one thing a wealthy businessman likes it opportunity to get in first for the next big thing because that is where most of the money is made.

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, Wrestej said:

I guess I’m not explaining well.  There will be no more NCAA.  They will not have to be or will be affiliated with a university.  They will be an out in the open minor league system or maybe a new business venture to challenge current professional sport.  Once the money is gone from football and basketball (the big revenue sports) athletic departments in universities will go away.  They will have nothing to offset the losses.  Maybe a few places would have alumni willing to give endowments for certain sports but nowhere near enough to make a viable conference let alone conferences.  What do you think maybe 6-10 schools could come up with enough for wrestling.  That is not going to be sustainable.  Same with most of, if not all, of the other sports.  They will also more than likely go the private business route and try to make money or go the way of the do do bird.  They have exposed to the world what everyone already knew it’s “big business” and it is out in the open now.  No hiding all the BS.  So look out because get ready for all the vultures to start swooping in, because if there is one thing a wealthy businessman likes it opportunity to get in first for the next big thing because that is where most of the money is made.

I understand all of this.  I think everybody does.  

Wrestling and non-revenue are not currently taking money from football in most cases.  Football loses money at most universities.  It is way more than 6-10 wrestling programs that are self funding.  If it wasn't we'd be near 6-10 programs right now.  

Nothing is being exposed.  It's been this way for a long time.  

Edited July 13 by boconnell

[Wrestej]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

I understand all of this.  I think everybody does.  

Wrestling and non-revenue are not currently taking money from football in most cases.  Football loses money at most universities.  It is way more than 6-10 wrestling programs that are self funding.  If it wasn't we'd be near 6-10 programs right now.  

Nothing is being exposed.  It's been this way for a long time.  

We will see

[fishbane]

On 7/13/2024 at 1:27 PM, Wrestej said:

I guess I’m not explaining well.  There will be no more NCAA.  They will not have to be or will be affiliated with a university.  They will be an out in the open minor league system or maybe a new business venture to challenge current professional sport.  

I think the schools are an essential part of what makes NCAA sports the cash cow that they are.  My guess is that NCAA football and basketball generate far more revenue than equivalent minor league programs (AAA baseball, AAA Hockey, G league basketball, arena league football, and XFL/UFL).  NCAA sports have a built in fan base of students and alumni.  The largest institutions have upwards of 500k living alumni.  It would be foolish to terminate the affiliation or start and unaffiliated team, but of the schools want out it could happen.

On 7/13/2024 at 2:42 PM, boconnell said:

Football loses money at most universities.

What most schools put out isn't a profit/loss statement for each teams.  It's a more of an internal budget.  Almost all spend the money they are allocated at almost all institutions.  They are all non-profits.  That's how they work.  There is no profit incentive.  If they didn't use all the money in the budget no investors would get to keep it.  If they didn't spend all the money they were allocated that is more likely the result of being allocated all the revenue they produce and under projecting that revenue than the team being profitable.

If private equity gets involved there will be an incentive to turn a profit.  It will be amazing how quickly power 5 teams that struggled to "break even" as non profits suddenly started turning a profit if they are ever managed by private equity.  Wouldn't even have to drop programs to do it.  But they would be more profitable if they did...

[Fletcher]

The ACC has an airtight "grant of rights" agreement with all members. FSU, Clemson and Miami would have to pay around $100MM to exit. Doesn't mean they won't, but unlikely.

Each year the exit cost go down, so they eventually will leave - just depends on when it becomes cost-effective.

[JimmyBT]

Affiliate wrestling schools could be in trouble 

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, Fletcher said:

The ACC has an airtight "grant of rights" agreement with all members. FSU, Clemson and Miami would have to pay around $100MM to exit. Doesn't mean they won't, but unlikely.

Each year the exit cost go down, so they eventually will leave - just depends on when it becomes cost-effective.

It has been quite the turnaround by the Big 12.  It was not so long ago that they seemed like the Power 5 conference most likely to be consumed by the others.  Nebraska went to the Big Ten, Colorado to the PAC 12, Texas A&M and Missouri to the SEC followed by Texas and Oklahoma announcing their intent to do the same. Now the PAC-12 is nearly gone and the ACC looks vulnerable. 

Grant of rights would be in addition to the exit fee.  The exit fee is for leaving the conference, but the grant of rights gives the ACC the broadcast rights to the member schools home games until 2036. So $100 million plus the ACC has the broadcast rights to the home games.  I'm sure that agreement will be challenged in court and ACC schools will be unlikely to sign such an onerous agreement in the future given how their revenues have lagged behind other conferences.

[Camel Wrestling Fan]

I think roster caps could have a negative effect on wrestling being an ongoing sport. Yes, the big time programs would not be able to hoard enormous amount of talent with unlimited scholarships, BUT the smaller schools who currently have 30-40 man rosters would be hurt finacially. If these smaller schools are currently giving 8-10 scholarship it means 25 rostered wrestlers are NOT. Would they be students at that school if it were not for wrestling? Probably not. Also remember wrestling has the highest number of 1st generation college students.