James Green - 65kg. Why?

[Takuto_Otoguro]

Why does he do this to himself every 4 years since 2016 and why does no one in his circle have an honest conversation with him that it's never going to work out at this weight and that he's only hurting himself? 

[Spladle08]

13 minutes ago, Takuto_Otoguro said:

Why does he do this to himself every 4 years since 2016 and why does no one in his circle have an honest conversation with him that it's never going to work out at this weight and that he's only hurting himself? 

He's chasing a dream, and he's giving himself the best possible shot at making the team. 
It's this or represent another country and have Pyles hunt him down for reprimand

[Takuto_Otoguro]

24 minutes ago, Spladle08 said:

He's chasing a dream, and he's giving himself the best possible shot at making the team. 
It's this or represent another country and have Pyles hunt him down for reprimand

He has a better chance at 74 without the huge cut. Both extremely low of course. He was losing to Mexico ( when Mexico had actual Mexicans in their team) one of the previous times he attempted this weight.  He is not a 65 guy. 

[Spladle08]

2 minutes ago, Takuto_Otoguro said:

He has a better chance at 74 without the huge cut. Both extremely low of course. He was losing to Mexico ( when Mexico had actual Mexicans in their team) one of the previous times he attempted this weight.  He is not a 65 guy. 

I think if he can figure out how to not be dead when he cuts he has a chance of competing with those guys.
On the other hand....
I don't think he can ever grow into a real 74kg guy, he's just too small for the weight 

[misterchonger]

I think it's already been said on here that, often times, putting on and maintaining quality weight is harder than it sounds.  I think this is the case with James Green.  If I remember correctly, he attempted to bump to 74kg for 2020 Trials but lost a lot of his gains during quarantine and decided to go back to 65kg.  

[Truzzcat]

The cut will likely be easier for him now that hes had his hip repaired. I would imagine that made it much harder to get weight off, and hes competing this weekend which leads me to believe the cut is not absolutely killing him if hes not limiting his weigh ins.

[1032004]

21 hours ago, Spladle08 said:

I think if he can figure out how to not be dead when he cuts he has a chance of competing with those guys.
On the other hand....
I don't think he can ever grow into a real 74kg guy, he's just too small for the weight 

I’d say it’s more that he has zero chance of beating Kyle Dake then he’s too small.

I’d certainly give him a shot at 65 though.  And if Sebastian Rivera can medal, Green can too.

[Takuto_Otoguro]

On 3/6/2024 at 4:29 PM, Spladle08 said:

I think if he can figure out how to not be dead when he cuts he has a chance of competing with those guys.
On the other hand....
I don't think he can ever grow into a real 74kg guy, he's just too small for the weight 

Really? I disagree. Watch his world final vs Chamizo. He was noticeably taller and more muscular. Clearly bigger. Most 70 guys have gone to 74. I think he has this idea that he can succeed at 65 through being a weight bully. It just isn't going to happen. This is the hardest weight. He was a borderline medal guy at 70. 

[bnwtwg]

He went 65 in the past because he worked out with Burroughs every day and knew his odds at 65 were better than 74. JB is an all time Russia-level final boss gatekeeper.

[Spladle08]

28 minutes ago, Takuto_Otoguro said:

Really? I disagree. Watch his world final vs Chamizo. He was noticeably taller and more muscular. Clearly bigger. Most 70 guys have gone to 74. I think he has this idea that he can succeed at 65 through being a weight bully. It just isn't going to happen. This is the hardest weight. He was a borderline medal guy at 70. 

Chamizo was the ultimate weight cutter, but has learned his abilities translate as he just gets bigger and bigger. He's never going to be huge for any weight, he's just supremely talented. 

The other posters who have referenced how far Green knows he is from the 74kg guys like Dake and Burroughs. Are saying what I believe is the truth. He knows he just doesn't have the attributes to compete higher than 70kg. Whether it's height, weight, mental hurdles, whatever I don't feel like it's speculation. I mean his ENTIRE LIFE since college has been FS wrestling, most of which, training with the World Champ. 

I know we like to fancy ourselves wrestling geniuses, but if he was smoking 74kg guys in the room when he wasn't cutting or trying to bulk.... I think we'd see members of the USA Wrestling staff and his personal coaches pushing for him to move up in weights. I'm sure he doesn't like killing himself with a weight cut. 

He has however, wrestled very close matches, or beaten, many of the top 65kg guys when they've attempted to bump. 

I think if he can control the physical hurdles of moving down (Which I'm guessing he has a grip on) I think you're going to be surprised by how he competes. But also at 31, and taking a year or so off.... maybe he just doesn't have it anymore. 
But going where you're most confident, may have a little strength advantage, know the competition well, for your LAST SHOT EVER of making an Olympic team. 
Seems more enticing then coming out of "retirement" to hope for the opportunity to get Dake Bombed, or blast doubled by your old training partner, but more realistically lose to a number of up and comers in the earlier rounds.

I can't formulate a realistic argument that moving up would be the superior move. 

Edited March 8 by Spladle08

[bnwtwg]

Why is James Green going 65?

Answer: because the IOC is dumb and thinks a 20 pound delta between weight classes is perfectly acceptable rather than following the recommendations of the sport's global governing body.

[Takuto_Otoguro]

1 hour ago, Spladle08 said:

Chamizo was the ultimate weight cutter, but has learned his abilities translate as he just gets bigger and bigger. He's never going to be huge for any weight, he's just supremely talented. 

The other posters who have referenced how far Green knows he is from the 74kg guys like Dake and Burroughs. Are saying what I believe is the truth. He knows he just doesn't have the attributes to compete higher than 70kg. Whether it's height, weight, mental hurdles, whatever I don't feel like it's speculation. I mean his ENTIRE LIFE since college has been FS wrestling, most of which, training with the World Champ. 

I know we like to fancy ourselves wrestling geniuses, but if he was smoking 74kg guys in the room when he wasn't cutting or trying to bulk.... I think we'd see members of the USA Wrestling staff and his personal coaches pushing for him to move up in weights. I'm sure he doesn't like killing himself with a weight cut. 

He has however, wrestled very close matches, or beaten, many of the top 65kg guys when they've attempted to bump. 

I think if he can control the physical hurdles of moving down (Which I'm guessing he has a grip on) I think you're going to be surprised by how he competes. But also at 31, and taking a year or so off.... maybe he just doesn't have it anymore. 
But going where you're most confident, may have a little strength advantage, know the competition well, for your LAST SHOT EVER of making an Olympic team. 
Seems more enticing then coming out of "retirement" to hope for the opportunity to get Dake Bombed, or blast doubled by your old training partner, but more realistically lose to a number of up and comers in the earlier rounds.

I can't formulate a realistic argument that moving up would be the superior move. 

No, don't get me wrong. I agree his chances at 74 are essentially close to 0. I just think that it's the same at 65 but add a big weight cut on top of it.

 

Keep in mind he'd have to cut to 65, win the trials, cut weight again to 65 in a matter of weeks and then qualify the weight. Close to impossible IMO.

[Spladle08]

4 minutes ago, Takuto_Otoguro said:

No, don't get me wrong. I agree his chances at 74 are essentially close to 0. I just think that it's the same at 65 but add a big weight cut on top of it.

 

Keep in mind he'd have to cut to 65, win the trials, cut weight again to 65 in a matter of weeks and then qualify the weight. Close to impossible IMO.

Yeah I agree there's basically no shot at making the team and if thats what makes it worthwhile, just retire, but if he's going to compete with the intention of giving himself the "best" shot at making the Olympics. 
65kg feels like 5% 
74kg feels like a true 0%

I hope he shows out in his last rodea and does something strange JO style. 
But.... I'll guess he wins his opening bout against somebody random like Kaleb Larkin, and then loses to a top-dog and thats that. 

GREAT CAREER

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

Ultimate tween idol

[Dogbone]

6 hours ago, Takuto_Otoguro said:

No, don't get me wrong. I agree his chances at 74 are essentially close to 0. I just think that it's the same at 65 but add a big weight cut on top of it.

 

Keep in mind he'd have to cut to 65, win the trials, cut weight again to 65 in a matter of weeks and then qualify the weight. Close to impossible IMO.

He has gone head to head with JB and KNOWS how that goes.  He doesn't have that same knowledge with the 65KG guys.  The fact that he has tried twice before and is giving is a try again should tell you all you need to know.     Pretty sure he knows what he has to do to make the Olympics and believes 65KG is his best chance.  

 

[bnwtwg]

4 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Ultimate tween idol

Was on the cover  of Tween Tiger Beat magazine 2x

[mspart]

He took silver at Yasar Dogu at 70.   He still has some juice with him. 

mspart

[Lunaticfringe]

Look how Pantaleo was at 65, same exact results. Pantaleo is very tough at 70 but too small at 74 and too big for 65

[jross]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:43 AM, Takuto_Otoguro said:

Why does he do this to himself every 4 years since 2016 and why does no one in his circle have an honest conversation with him that it's never going to work out at this weight and that he's only hurting himself? 

Because it is his best option to compete for himself and his country.

Pursuing his competitive goals in the face of adversity should be respected.

[mspart]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:51 PM, mspart said:

He took silver at Yasar Dogu at 70.   He still has some juice with him. 

mspart

I take that back.   That was an old result.   He took 5th this year at 65.

mspart

[Spladle08]

he didn't lose to slouches though
https://cdn.uww.org/2024-03/results_03_antalya.pdf

[nhs67]

This was 65 +2 wasn't it?

[Truzzcat]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

This was 65 +2 wasn't it?

I believe all the ranking series are +2 I know both of jordans weigh ins have been +2

[nhs67]

His first loss:

https://uww.org/athletes/aghayev-musa

Guy DNP at U20s last year at 61 KG.  He lost to him via 6-3 Decision.

His second loss:

https://uww.org/athletes/kudiev-abdulmazhid

Guy has basically no Senior level success.  He lost to him via 4-0 Decision.

2 hours ago, Spladle08 said:

he didn't lose to slouches though
https://cdn.uww.org/2024-03/results_03_antalya.pdf

He lost to slouches.

[Truzzcat]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

His first loss:

https://uww.org/athletes/aghayev-musa

Guy DNP at U20s last year at 61 KG.  He lost to him via 6-3 Decision.

His second loss:

https://uww.org/athletes/kudiev-abdulmazhid

Guy has basically no Senior level success.  He lost to him via 4-0 Decision.

He lost to slouches.

second guy looks at least solid, beat tobier at worlds and lost to tevanyan 8-6. I dont really think James is going to be a factor at 65 though.